Is someone arguing for Calvanism?
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Is God the source of evil?
- Thread starter Mage
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I love the awe and Glee of the people when they really really understand that satan is actually defeated. And how they marvel that they actually we're afraid of him.
Reminds me of a saying.
" Fear activates satan like faith activates God.
To me this verse speaks of a fallen adversary. There's only one that we read about that fell thru pride. Satan.So these verses are evidently referring to Lucifer as Satan.
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
The one who held people in bondage.
A direct opposite from the reference in
Isaiah 61
1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
From everything I have researched I have come to understand that the seeing thru a glass darkly as spoken about in Corinthians is referring to a spiritual realm. That is just as active or more so than the physical realm we occupy.
Scripture indicates one of the highest ranking angels exalted himself over God and as a result he was cast out of heaven. And as a result of God cleansing Heaven he gave all heavenly beings a choice on who to serve. Scripture says a third of the angels chose to follow Satan.
According to Jasher the Father removed freewill from the remaining ⅔ and created a righteous will within each.
So to understand how the third operates we have to realize there is an order and hierarchy. With satan having been the highest ranking therefore he gets to call the shots. With numerous ranks below him and a constant struggle within those ranks to rise.
All my research points to evil being anything against the Father. Not something that was created but happens by default where ever free will is allowed.
It was thru the realization of an active spiritual realm that opened my eyes into researching a new perspective on scripture. And thus opened my eyes to polygany being a sanctified marriage.
How does that saying go? If you can’t beat them join them?
I will join in and see for the sake of argument how the different satans portrayed in scripture shape up.
Let’s start in the garden of Eden with the serpent that Christianity as a whole asserts was Satan in disguise. We find that he seduced Eve and some assert this produced Cain and a whole line of posterity that continued to the time of Christ. Jesus of course knew who they were and called them children of their father the devil. Now I don’t believe all that, but I’m sure many reading will at least maintain that the snake was Satan. So in Gen 3:14 we find YHWH speaking to the serpent and cursing him “Because thou hast done this thou art cursed above all cattle and above all beasts of the field. Upon thy belly shalt thou go and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life.” Fast forward to Job. Satan comes among the sons of God and tells God that he was “going to and fro in the earth and walking up and down in it”
I guess YHWH’s curse didn’t stick? Because Satan is walking up and down in the earth! Shouldn’t he be crawling on his belly???
Moving forward to Isaiah 14 we have Satan again, according to some, who has become the king of Babylon. In verse 16 this Satan is called a MAN who made the earth tremble, but just disregard that part because this king couldn’t be a man. But yet it goes on to say that the other kings of the earth are buried in their tombs, but this king will not be joined with them in burial because he has destroyed his land and slain HIS people. Prepare slaughter for his children, the seed of evildoers will not be renowned/honored. The Lord of Hosts has purposed and who shall disannul it? His hand is stretched out and who shall turn it back? in the year that King Ahaz died was this burden.
After reading this chapter many times I see it differently then I have in the past, and I believe with greater clarity.
This proverb is not really against a king of Babylon, but rather against a king of Judea. Babylon is being used in a descriptive sense here because Ahaz and his reign were in opposition to God and His values and being a man Ahaz participated in the “Mystery of iniquity” and exalted himself above the knowledge of God. So now we know that Lucifer was actually a MAN. He was Ahaz a king of Judah. He died and was buried.
Moving forward let’s look at Ezekiel 28
We find that the King of Tyrus had a son that was the prince of Tyrus. A very puffed up prince that thought himself a god. YHWH tells him plainly through the prophet that he is NOT a god, he is a man. His death is promised and in verse 9 he is again told a second time that he is a MAN. Then it moves on to the lamentation against the king of Tyrus. It should be clear that if his son is a man, and YHWH called him a man, that the father is just a man, especially since his death is also foretold. That Hebrew word translated created also means chosen, and it makes sense that since YHWH set this king to be a covering (protection) to the people that his sin in getting rich through traffic ended his reign. “Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God.” The use of this phrase is descriptive. Have you ever noticed that after the children of Israel were slaves in Egypt the word was a synonym for bondage? “Babylon” likewise is the system that seeks to exalt man above God and rule man in place of God. The stones of fire (precious stones) are representative of the tribes of Israel. The Cherub had wings spread over the mercy seat of the ark, so likewise, a king placed by YHWH had a protective roll over the people of God. “Thou was upon the Holy mountain of God.” Mountain in prophesy is nation. Do you see this yet? “So I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God.” This king was cut off and thrown down. Verse 19 “And all they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: Thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be anymore” So this satan died and will be no more.
If you go into Revelation you will find the same story repeated on a larger scale. There truly is nothing new under the sun. Mystery Babylon the Great is ruling over the nations of the world, controlled from within by a select few evil men. They go into nations and destroy them, then rebuild them. We are dealing with the last satan, the last adversary. If you find the one who controls the eye em ef, you will find the living satan of our day.
Our battle is not against flesh and blood. It is against ideologies, false doctrines and value systems that are contrary to and in total opposition to what YHWH authorized and established. Spiritual (motivational) wickedness in high places. False prophets abound. They are called preachers today and they are no more right about satan then they are about marriage. Study it out for yourself.
I will join in and see for the sake of argument how the different satans portrayed in scripture shape up.
Let’s start in the garden of Eden with the serpent that Christianity as a whole asserts was Satan in disguise. We find that he seduced Eve and some assert this produced Cain and a whole line of posterity that continued to the time of Christ. Jesus of course knew who they were and called them children of their father the devil. Now I don’t believe all that, but I’m sure many reading will at least maintain that the snake was Satan. So in Gen 3:14 we find YHWH speaking to the serpent and cursing him “Because thou hast done this thou art cursed above all cattle and above all beasts of the field. Upon thy belly shalt thou go and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life.” Fast forward to Job. Satan comes among the sons of God and tells God that he was “going to and fro in the earth and walking up and down in it”
I guess YHWH’s curse didn’t stick? Because Satan is walking up and down in the earth! Shouldn’t he be crawling on his belly???
Moving forward to Isaiah 14 we have Satan again, according to some, who has become the king of Babylon. In verse 16 this Satan is called a MAN who made the earth tremble, but just disregard that part because this king couldn’t be a man. But yet it goes on to say that the other kings of the earth are buried in their tombs, but this king will not be joined with them in burial because he has destroyed his land and slain HIS people. Prepare slaughter for his children, the seed of evildoers will not be renowned/honored. The Lord of Hosts has purposed and who shall disannul it? His hand is stretched out and who shall turn it back? in the year that King Ahaz died was this burden.
After reading this chapter many times I see it differently then I have in the past, and I believe with greater clarity.
This proverb is not really against a king of Babylon, but rather against a king of Judea. Babylon is being used in a descriptive sense here because Ahaz and his reign were in opposition to God and His values and being a man Ahaz participated in the “Mystery of iniquity” and exalted himself above the knowledge of God. So now we know that Lucifer was actually a MAN. He was Ahaz a king of Judah. He died and was buried.
Moving forward let’s look at Ezekiel 28
We find that the King of Tyrus had a son that was the prince of Tyrus. A very puffed up prince that thought himself a god. YHWH tells him plainly through the prophet that he is NOT a god, he is a man. His death is promised and in verse 9 he is again told a second time that he is a MAN. Then it moves on to the lamentation against the king of Tyrus. It should be clear that if his son is a man, and YHWH called him a man, that the father is just a man, especially since his death is also foretold. That Hebrew word translated created also means chosen, and it makes sense that since YHWH set this king to be a covering (protection) to the people that his sin in getting rich through traffic ended his reign. “Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God.” The use of this phrase is descriptive. Have you ever noticed that after the children of Israel were slaves in Egypt the word was a synonym for bondage? “Babylon” likewise is the system that seeks to exalt man above God and rule man in place of God. The stones of fire (precious stones) are representative of the tribes of Israel. The Cherub had wings spread over the mercy seat of the ark, so likewise, a king placed by YHWH had a protective roll over the people of God. “Thou was upon the Holy mountain of God.” Mountain in prophesy is nation. Do you see this yet? “So I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God.” This king was cut off and thrown down. Verse 19 “And all they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: Thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be anymore” So this satan died and will be no more.
If you go into Revelation you will find the same story repeated on a larger scale. There truly is nothing new under the sun. Mystery Babylon the Great is ruling over the nations of the world, controlled from within by a select few evil men. They go into nations and destroy them, then rebuild them. We are dealing with the last satan, the last adversary. If you find the one who controls the eye em ef, you will find the living satan of our day.
Our battle is not against flesh and blood. It is against ideologies, false doctrines and value systems that are contrary to and in total opposition to what YHWH authorized and established. Spiritual (motivational) wickedness in high places. False prophets abound. They are called preachers today and they are no more right about satan then they are about marriage. Study it out for yourself.
The more I learn, the more I realize how vast my lack of knowledge is. One thing that I have learned over the last year or so is how lacking my understanding of the spiritual realm and its boundaries and rules and roles and players actually is.
For example: who is Mastema? What and who exactly is Lilith, Satyr, the destroying angle of Ezekiel 9, cherubim, seraphim, and a whole list of critters in the Scriptures including Lucifer and Satan and Apollyon and Abadon.
I do know that there are multiple references about Satan that tie him to a number of names and instances in scripture that seem to give him inhuman characteristics and capabilities.
For example Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
It also seems possible that the angel in Revelation 9:11 may be the same dragon mentioned in Revelation 20 due to the connection between the antichrist needing Apollyon’s power for world domination, and the end of Revelation 19 where the false prophet and antichrist are punished, followed immediately by Satan being bound and cast into a bottomless pit for a period of time, after which he’ll be loosed to deceive again.
My (very incomplete) thoughts for the moment are that Satan seems to be a very powerful demon with the ability to possess a man, and through him rule kingdoms. The manner and method of this possession is uncertain, but no doubt is initiated by Satan much like he attempted with Christ in Matthew 4. In this passage, Christ names him as a tempter, a devil (diablos) and Satan (Satanas). As the passage lays out, this devil has the ability to teleport himself and another, and apparently has ownership over the kingdoms of the world.
For example: who is Mastema? What and who exactly is Lilith, Satyr, the destroying angle of Ezekiel 9, cherubim, seraphim, and a whole list of critters in the Scriptures including Lucifer and Satan and Apollyon and Abadon.
I do know that there are multiple references about Satan that tie him to a number of names and instances in scripture that seem to give him inhuman characteristics and capabilities.
For example Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
It also seems possible that the angel in Revelation 9:11 may be the same dragon mentioned in Revelation 20 due to the connection between the antichrist needing Apollyon’s power for world domination, and the end of Revelation 19 where the false prophet and antichrist are punished, followed immediately by Satan being bound and cast into a bottomless pit for a period of time, after which he’ll be loosed to deceive again.
My (very incomplete) thoughts for the moment are that Satan seems to be a very powerful demon with the ability to possess a man, and through him rule kingdoms. The manner and method of this possession is uncertain, but no doubt is initiated by Satan much like he attempted with Christ in Matthew 4. In this passage, Christ names him as a tempter, a devil (diablos) and Satan (Satanas). As the passage lays out, this devil has the ability to teleport himself and another, and apparently has ownership over the kingdoms of the world.
Which is entirely consistent with Rev 12 and 20, "the serpent of old".
When satan took Jesus up on the high mount and offered him all the kingdoms. Jesus does not dispute the ownership of the kingdoms. And it seems to be accepted Satan had the power to offer what was under his authority.
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
The thot that satan rules over the kingdoms of the earth has put a new perspective on the scripture that speaks of us being strangers and pilgrims.
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I find it incredibly enlightening what was not offered. Satan didn’t offer Christ the world, as that doesn’t belong to him. Only the kingdoms.
Which seriously makes me question the idea of patriotism as it is currently associated with one of those kingdoms. Would patriotism by definition not be more accurately defined as loyalty to a patriarchal tribe instead of a kingdom?
I think that's where I manage to agree and disagree with you at the same time. Egypt became a prophetic code-word for spiritual bondage, but Egypt also existed literally. Babylon is a system that seeks to exalt man above God, but it also was a literal nation that literally tried to build a tower above God. The precious stones are representative of the 12 tribes, but they were also literal precious stones set into the chest plate of the high priest.
Even acknowledging the metaphorical symbolism of Satan, I don't see how that precludes a literal Satan.
My leaning on this is that Satan caused a serpent to speak with his 'wisdom' (similar to Balaam's donkey) but that the serpent itself was cursed in Satan's place because it was not yet time for him to be judged. (I find this consistent because the ground was cursed for Adam's sake as well, while the text doesn't say that either Adam or Eve were cursed themselves.)
But my real questions would be, if the Serpent here is metaphorical for the Lusts of the Flesh (solely) then... what are the other wild beasts metaphorical for? And in what way were the lusts of the flesh cursed? How are they now crawling on their belly and what were they doing before?
If Eve's (metaphorical lust) tempted her to question God, accuse Him of being a liar, and disobey Him so she could be wise like Him; how did the curse change anything?
Good point. Patriotism is often little more than loyalty to a particular state institution. That's like loyalty to a hammer instead of the carpenter who welds it. Nationalism on the other hand, is loyalty to a people, your tribe, your own family.
Not just preclude, it proves a literal Satan; because he is necessary for the metaphor. The king is being likened unto the facts of someone else.
I guess YHWH’s curse didn’t stick? Because Satan is walking up and down in the earth! Shouldn’t he be crawling on his belly???
I actually started writing a book on some of these thoughts. The way God operates is a lot like Persians in the Bible with their laws. Once God establishes a law he will not break it. In the beginning God gave man dominion over the earth. When man fell he gave dominion of earth over to Satan. That is why Satan in the New testament is able to offer it back to Jesus. It was his because we gave it to him in the garden. God didn't just come to die on the cross and reconcile us to himself. He also came to give us back our dominion....
So to operate in this World Satan a spiritual being needed a body. Now what I was writing my book about is the fact that out of all the animals Satan could have used in the Garden like a lion, an ox, a elephant or what ever, is that Satan used the serpent. the Bible says the Serpent, not satan, was the most cunning of all the animals. My thought is that Satan chose to use the serpent because the snake had an attribute that satan needed. The snake was the most cunning. He didn't need courage like the Lion or tenderness like the dove to carry out his plan. He needed Cunning. He needed Persuasion. When I apply that thought today I believe Satan uses certain people because of the traits God gave them. Charisma is a wonderful trait in a person who is used by God like Billy Graham. It is bad when used by Satan Like Adolf Hitler. Every good trait/talent we are given by God is detrimental when used by the enemy. I really don't have time to flesh this out but its a start.
Daniel 10:12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
I think this speaks for itself
I actually started writing a book on some of these thoughts. The way God operates is a lot like Persians in the Bible with their laws. Once God establishes a law he will not break it. In the beginning God gave man dominion over the earth. When man fell he gave dominion of earth over to Satan. That is why Satan in the New testament is able to offer it back to Jesus. It was his because we gave it to him in the garden. God didn't just come to die on the cross and reconcile us to himself. He also came to give us back our dominion....
So to operate in this World Satan a spiritual being needed a body. Now what I was writing my book about is the fact that out of all the animals Satan could have used in the Garden like a lion, an ox, a elephant or what ever, is that Satan used the serpent. the Bible says the Serpent, not satan, was the most cunning of all the animals. My thought is that Satan chose to use the serpent because the snake had an attribute that satan needed. The snake was the most cunning. He didn't need courage like the Lion or tenderness like the dove to carry out his plan. He needed Cunning. He needed Persuasion. When I apply that thought today I believe Satan uses certain people because of the traits God gave them. Charisma is a wonderful trait in a person who is used by God like Billy Graham. It is bad when used by Satan Like Adolf Hitler. Every good trait/talent we are given by God is detrimental when used by the enemy. I really don't have time to flesh this out but its a start.
Again I would go read Daniel when the Prince of Persia was holding up presumably Gabriel from delivering the Answer to Daniel's Prayer. A human Prince isn't going to hold up an Angel. But a Prince Spirit could. This Spirit was not Satan but on his own was so powerful that "Michael your Prince" had to get involved.
Daniel 10:12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
I think this speaks for itself
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there are times when God is speaking on multiple layers. Satan empowered and directed the serpent.
The serpent stills crawls on its belly and will forever.
Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Isa 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
Isa 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
Isa 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
Isa 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isa 65:23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
Isa 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
Satan will get his, and although even death will be destroyed, the Serpent will bear its curse even in the New Heaven and New Earth.
Rightly dividing the Word is required to recognize when a double reference is present and what parts apply to each or what parts apply to both.
The crawling on the belly part was to the serpent, The crushed head and bruised heel part was to Satan.
So does that mean the tales of dragons come from pre-fall times?
I believe there are dragon creatures in the spirit realm. Several possible explanations.
References in Job could be poetic descriptions of existing animals. (alligator, Hippo , Rino etc.)
or Dinosaurs since extinct or
Job could also be double reference to include spirit creatures. Leviathan is also symbolic of Satan and of a type of demon under Satan.
The pre-Adamite world could be the source of these creatures and also explain Dinosaurs.
Witchcraft in the spirit realm could also explain some of these either in the Pre-Adamite flesh world and in the now spirit realm. Remember the power of Pharaohs magicians.
Scientist Richard Owen invented the term “dinosaurs” in 1841 for describing the large creatures that once lived on earth. But for most of human history these creatures were known as dragons and they were part of the original creation. The many dragon stories and legends that can be found around the world are probably related to actual encounters with dinosaurs. Since we are told in Genesis that there were two of every kind of animal that went on the Ark before the Flood, dinosaurs must have come off the Ark and only become extinct sometime after that.
I think they lived before Adam just after Genesis 1:1 but before Genesis 1:2. I think when Satan fell to earth the old world was destroyed with dinosaurs in it and Genesis 1:2 God is remaking it.
The stories of dragons must have predated Babylon though because most every ancient culture has stories of dragons and they had no contact with each other. The Chinese, Mayans and Europeans all had stories of dragons. Fascinating to me historians try to make it sound like multiple groups of ancient society with different languages and no contact with each other magically dreamed up and imagined the same make believe creature.
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People can believe whatever they want. Most choose to believe that evil is embodied in a being called satan. I choose to believe that evil is rebellion against God and is committed by man independent of any supernatural force or being. I believe YHWH said it perfectly through Yeshua (Yeshua said He ONLY spoke His Father's words) when He taught us that evil proceeds from the heart of man. James confirmed this when he wrote that every man is enticed by his own lusts.
I do believe that all aspects shown in scripture in the story of Adam and Eve point to the lusts of the flesh causing them to fall. Read that story and all three lusts are evident in Eve before she ate the fruit. She SAW (eyes) that is was good for FOOD (flesh), and desirable to make one WISE (pride).
I do believe the serpent is metaphorical for the deceitful heart of man. (Jer. 17:9) This is how subtly, one little compromise at a time, men are led into doing things they know they should not.
This could be worthy of further study another time. My initial thought is that the curse on the snake was to remind man of the subtle ways that he convinces himself to give in to the lusts of the flesh/the things that tempt him.
I have no thoughts about what other animals are metaphorical for.
You might double check your facts here. Multiple places in scripture says that the earth is the Lords and the fullness thereof. And the offer Satan made to Christ was not the earth.
If you are correct that God gave dominion over the earth to Satan, I would definitely be interested in seeing the passages, or if you are correct that man gave it to Satan, there should also be something to that effect.
Do you have any scriptural references to support this claim?
Scripture tells me that the earth is YHWH's, and the fullness thereof; the world , and they that dwell therein. It also relates that YHWH rejected Saul as king and anointed David. Daniel 4:17 tells us that the Most High ruleth in the kingdoms of men and giveth it to whomsoever he will. Dan. 4:34-37 is where you can read the king's testimony that states in part that YHWH's dominion is everlasting and His kingdom from generation to generation.
Yes, there is a verse that says satan is the god of this world. Put it in proper context. When man gives into his lustful desires he submits himself to his adversary. James says to resist the devil and he will flee from you, yet the modern advice the world offers is to follow your heart. Romans 6:16 Know ye not that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness?
Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Here are questions that beg answers. Was YHWH wrong when he said that evil came from the hearts of men? Can evil exist apart from a spirit being/fallen angel called Satan?
I have a lot to get done today so I'm going to do this real fast
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth
In Genesis 1:26 Man gets dominion in the beginning.
And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
Satan offers Jesus Dominion back and like Yoder said, Jesus doesn't say that he doesn't have dominion but rather rebukes him. Satan can't offer an all knowing God something he doesn't posses. And who delivered this power to Satan? We did.
John 12:30Jesus answered and said, This voicecame not because of me, but for your sakes. 31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.33<1161> This he said, signifying what death he should die.
The word Prince here is archón and it means 758 árxōn (from 757 /árxō, "rule, take precedence") – properly, a preeminent ruler (chief); a commander with authority
4In whom the god of thisworld hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Paul call Satan the god (theos) of the world 2316 theós (of unknown origin) – properly, God, the Creator and owner of all things (Jn 1:3; Gen 1 - 3).
There are tons more verses like Satan being the prince(Ruler) of the power of the air and satan being the ruler of the kingdoms and such that I dn't have time to run down so i'll let you do that.
Anyways , point is we were given dominion in the beginning but we gave it to Satan when we fell.
I can give more examples but don't have time. Hopefully this is cohesive. I usually try to write in a way that flows and is easy to understand.
We can search all we want, but what searchers won't find is evidence that the early Christians had some kind of uniform opinion about what the Hebrew (הַשָּׂטָן; satan, adversary) or Greek (ὁ διάβολος; diablos, devil) words meant in Scripture. Historically, in both Judaism and Christianity, they were used as adjectives as well as nouns, and no generalized-agreement assumptions were made until the early Church Fathers that all of the powers and entities referred to in Scripture could be subsumed under one Head Devil. The Creeds have always had as part of their purpose to introduce and solidify the misconception that a dualistic God-Devil/Good-Evil/Heaven-Hell dichotomy be cemented in the minds of believers. We should not fall into this snare. It is part of the travesty that flows from the Constantinian/Augustinian marriage of paganism and Christianity, a travesty that gives us the impression that the adversary is somehow at least almost as powerful as our God and has a place called Hell where The One Adversary will have eternal dominion over billions upon billions of permanently-lost souls.
I know this represents a minority belief on my part within Christianity, but I just have to ask this: are we really that unsure of the omnipotence of our LORD that we would be insecure enough to believe that, in The End, He will have lost 95% of humanity to an entity that HE created?
I'm definitely in agreement with you about one thing, though, @Soldier's Psalm:
Satan only has the power that we voluntarily give Satan -- and it didn't just occur when we partook of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil [an interesting 'tangential' question would be, "If God had not previously created evil prior to the eating of that fruit, how could there have been any evil of which Adam and Eve could have gained knowledge?"]. Satan is perhaps the personification or anthropomorphism of sin, the turning of our backs on God, the essence of evil, and we are not just unwitting victims of Satan. We pretty much have to invite Satan in for Satan to have power in our lives. We have to be a request for Satan in order for Satan to set up shop in us.
Isn't the evidence of that all around us, not to mention within us to the extent that we remain an invitation for Satan's presence?
P.S. By the way, I'm not asserting that Wikipedia is some kind of ultimate source, but without even looking for it I did find the following this morning at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_in_Christianity:
I know this represents a minority belief on my part within Christianity, but I just have to ask this: are we really that unsure of the omnipotence of our LORD that we would be insecure enough to believe that, in The End, He will have lost 95% of humanity to an entity that HE created?
I'm definitely in agreement with you about one thing, though, @Soldier's Psalm:
Satan only has the power that we voluntarily give Satan -- and it didn't just occur when we partook of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil [an interesting 'tangential' question would be, "If God had not previously created evil prior to the eating of that fruit, how could there have been any evil of which Adam and Eve could have gained knowledge?"]. Satan is perhaps the personification or anthropomorphism of sin, the turning of our backs on God, the essence of evil, and we are not just unwitting victims of Satan. We pretty much have to invite Satan in for Satan to have power in our lives. We have to be a request for Satan in order for Satan to set up shop in us.
Isn't the evidence of that all around us, not to mention within us to the extent that we remain an invitation for Satan's presence?
P.S. By the way, I'm not asserting that Wikipedia is some kind of ultimate source, but without even looking for it I did find the following this morning at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_in_Christianity:
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