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Is God the source of evil?

Keith Martin said:
OK, we'll just have to agree to disagree about this. I have no choice but to acknowledge that God has the right to become angry even in response to behavior He wouldn't be surprised by. But I also assume that God is Omniscient, meaning that He knows everything and is outside of time in regard to that knowledge.
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I really don't have time to comment on this but don't make the mistake of thinking omniscience equals no free will. To know something and to control something are too very different things. And to think God creates evil is to completely miss the character of God and can only be done with poor translations and can't be done in original text. I saw you trying to reconcile a few of your thoughts with God making evil with thought everyone going to heaven eventually including Satan just some have to be purified in hell. I can't even start to explain how sideways and off this thought process is.
 
rockfox said:
If God knows absolutely everything you will do, and He creates you that way anyway, He is the creator of evil. Especially in the case of types like Satan; whose evil knows no bounds.
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I have to disagree with that. If I put chocolate and vanilla in front of my wife I know she will choose chocolate. It doesn't mean I control her. It means I know her. Knowledge of something does not equal control. If I raise my son and he grows up and kills someone am I guilty? I mean I made him and knew he was capable. Was I controlling him? Or was it his own choice. God is our father. Is he responsible for our bad choices?
 
Soldier's Psalm said:
I have to disagree with that. If I put chocolate and vanilla in front of my wife I know she will choose chocolate. It doesn't mean I control her. It means I know her. Knowledge of something does not equal control. If I raise my son and he grows up and kills someone am I guilty? I mean I made him and knew he was capable. Was I controlling him? Or was it his own choice. God is our father. Is he responsible for our bad choices?
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But you didn't create your wife, God did. If you created your wife from dust with an insatiable desire for chocolate and a hate of vanilla, and then put chocolate and vanilla in front of her, you know she will choose chocolate. Yes you know her, because you made her that way.
 
rockfox said:
But you didn't create your wife, God did. If you created your wife from dust with an insatiable desire for chocolate and a hate of vanilla, and then put chocolate and vanilla in front of her, you know she will choose chocolate. Yes you know her, because you made her that way.
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However we were made in the image of God NOT created to sin!
 
Two threads are running together.

Warning: Landmines ahead, don't blow up.

There must be free will if not God is unjust and evil or not God.

There must be predestination because God made promises. He keeps His promises. If His promises can be broken or thwarted then he is not omnipotent. If He is omnipotent then His promise creates a predestined event.

I don't see the two being exclusive.

He is omnipresent, meaning widely or constantly encountered. In Christian theology the word is used to mean everywhere at the same time, there's a difference. Two people can be at a location at the same time and not have an encounter. Maybe correct or wrong, to me neither interpretation takes away from God.

He is omnipotent, meaning having unlimited power; able to do anything. properly used in Christian Theology.

He is omniscient, used in Christian theology, Egyptian and Scandinavian Mythology as all knowing, but properly means complete awareness or understanding in the sense of wisdom. Examples of the second possibly being the meaning in Scripture see Romans 11:33, Proverbs 9:10, James 1:5, 1 Corinthians 2:7

There are others more focused on, possibly taken out of context, that show knowledge may be the interpretation despite the words proper usage.

Predestination is a thing.

Ephesians 1:4-5

4 He chose us in the Messiah before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before Him in love. 5 He predestined us for adoption as sons through Messiah Yeshua, in keeping with the good pleasure of His will—

Romans 8:30
30 And those whom He predestined, He also called; and those whom He called, He also justified; and those whom He justified, He also glorified.

It just might not be what most are thinking about when the hear the word because of what they were taught it meant. He predestined an event (not trying to minimalize the Messiahs death and Resurrection) that allows us to become citizens of His Kingdom, of Ysra'el. He promises to redeem Ysra'el. You still have to make a choice and become a citizen or not. Neither Jew nor Gentile, but Ysra'el. If your not Ysra'el your not in Messiah, not under the anointed King of Kings. Personal salvation is about citizenship.
 
Keith Martin said:
Some of the most majestic words ever spoken by Jehovah are found in Isaiah 45. Yet, to the average religious person, they seem partly untrue. Here they are:

I am Jehovah, and there is none else, there is no God beside Me. I girded thee though thou hast not known Me. That they may know from the east and from the west, there is none beside Me, that I am Jehovah and there is none else, I form the light and create the darkness; I make peace and create evil; I, Jehovah, do all these (5-7).​
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I question the translation.

Isaiah 45:5-7 NASB
[5] "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; [6] That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other, [7] The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.
 
Pacman said:
I question the translation.

Isaiah 45:5-7 NASB
[5] "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; [6] That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other, [7] The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.
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Not really gleaning the significant difference between them . . .
 
For everyone curious about God being wrapped in thick darkness this is the word Hebrew word used and is different from the normally translated word to darkness found in one of my earlier post.


◄ 6205. araphel ►
Strong's Concordance
araphel: cloud, heavy cloud
Original Word: עֲרָפֶל
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: araphel
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-aw-fel')
Definition: cloud, heavy cloud
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from araph
Definition
cloud, heavy cloud
NASB Translation
deep darkness (1), gloom (1), gloomy (1), thick cloud (3), thick darkness (7), thick gloom (2).

The word refers to a cloud that causes obscurity or the inability to see.
 
Soldier's Psalm said:
For everyone curious about God being wrapped in thick darkness this is the word Hebrew word used and is different from the normally translated word to darkness found in one of my earlier post.


◄ 6205. araphel ►
Strong's Concordance
araphel: cloud, heavy cloud
Original Word: עֲרָפֶל
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: araphel
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-aw-fel')
Definition: cloud, heavy cloud
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from araph
Definition
cloud, heavy cloud
NASB Translation
deep darkness (1), gloom (1), gloomy (1), thick cloud (3), thick darkness (7), thick gloom (2).

The word refers to a cloud that causes obscurity or the inability to see.
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When you compare other Ancient Hebrew literature you see it is also used for Fog, cloud, and as the name of the 7th Heaven (Araphel עֲרָפֶל). When you take The Greek word for Cloud in the B'rit Chadashah through the Sepitugiant back to the Tanahk you end up with Araph.

BTW you asked earlier in the thread if you were the only on who used strongs. Its not always accurate and often at times limited in the ability to properly express the full meaning of the Hebrew. Translation to the point of confirmation of preconceived belief on some cases. I would start with:
Etymological Dictionary of Biblical Hebrew: Based on the Commentaries of Samson Raphael Hirsch (English and Hebrew Edition), Hebrew Root Dictionary (its not a Hebrew Roots dictionary but a plan Hebrew look at the Root words and full meanings) and Thayers
 
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Kevin said:
When you compare other Ancient Hebrew literature you see it is also used for Fog, cloud, and as the name of the 7th Heaven (Araphel עֲרָפֶל). When you take The Greek word for Cloud in the B'rit Chadashah through the Sepitugiant back to the Tanahk you end up with Araph.

BTW you asked earlier in the thread if you were the only on who used strongs. Its not always accurate and often at times limited in the ability to properly express the full meaning of the Hebrew. Translation to the point of confirmation of preconceived belief on some cases. I would start with:
Etymological Dictionary of Biblical Hebrew: Based on the Commentaries of Samson Raphael Hirsch (English and Hebrew Edition), Hebrew Root Dictionary (its not a Hebrew Roots dictionary but a plan Hebrew look at the Root words and full meanings) and Thayers
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I use a Hebrew roots dictionary and am in the process of learning Hebrew now. I totally agree though about the strongs. Its just a good first stop on trying to understand the scriptures. Half the stuff I see argued and strange doctrinal issues that come up is easily taken care of with a quick look at a concordance.
 
Just to make sure I don't come across as some kind of haughty person my Hebrew is horrible and I lean very heavily on a Strongs, Hebraic dictionary, and word studies. That being said the scriptures have never been so alive as they have been since I have been studying Hebrew. I would encourage any and everyone to study Hebrew and learn some of the meanings behind the words being translated to English. The Bible is so much deeper than most know.
 
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