GRR... I am annoyed at two of our more public voices

[theleastofthese]

The statement that the husbands desires are the least of her concerns,

And what if her future husband doesn't mind that nearly as much as you do? Why impose personal preferences into anyone else's marriage. I mean there's an entire thread about how it's acceptable for men to desire wives only for sex. Apparently it's possible for people to make all sorts of marriages and agreements work.

 

[MeganC]

For me Sex, and a husbands desires are actually the least of my concern

Then you should follow the lead of the Apostle Paul and remain celibate. To marry anyway would be unfair to the man you choose as your husband.

Unless he's gay. That might work out well for you.

 

[BiblicalLiteralist]

And what if her future husband doesn't mind that nearly as much as you do? Why impose personal preferences into anyone else's marriage. I mean there's an entire thread about how it's acceptable for men to desire wives only for sex. Apparently it's possible for people to make all sorts of marriages and agreements work.

Its not a personal preference its observation of spirit and mentality through a biblical lens. Thats what all the scriputre references were for. Marriage is supposed to be an image of our relationship with The Most High. Just as men should desire a Matthew 25:23 response from YHWH so should a wife desire the same from her husband.

Lets not forget in doing so she is also fulfilling YHWH's desire in giving the command and setting up the authority structure as it is.

At the end of the day its between her and her husband, I am just pointing out the attitude is in conflict with what scripture represents and honors. It is always about service to others first.

 

[theleastofthese]

At the end of the day its between her and her husband, I am just pointing out the attitude is in conflict with what scripture represents and honors. It is always about service to others first.

I'm confused, is there a certain degree of "service" and hospitality that must be achieved before one is advised to marry? Like a hidden scale or rating system in scripture that I've yet to come across.

 

[BiblicalLiteralist]

To marry not at all, and for whom it is an option to pursue and learn of these things before hand (perhaps by participating in an discussion forum about that very thing), I would say it is wise to do so, at the minimum to build discernment.

What in particular about what I've presented vexes you?

 

[MeganC]

I'm confused, is there a certain degree of "service" and hospitality that must be achieved before one is advised to marry? Like a hidden scale or rating system in scripture that I've yet to come across.

This is found in The Book of Metrics and also restated in the Third Letter of Paul to the Waitresses.

"A woman must have a Yelp score of 4.5 before she should marry."

 

[Maia]

The statement that the husbands desires are the least of her concerns, pretty much sums it up. It means her goals are her priority, you cannot serve two masters. Having goals and wants are not the issue, it is placing them above her husbands that is the conflict. I agree it would suit her best to find a husband who shares interest in the same goals for the least friction, but the understanding needs to be that the priority should be the goals of the husbands as that is a part of patriarchy. Following the mans lead.

Then you should follow the lead of the Apostle Paul and remain celibate. To marry anyway would be unfair to the man you choose as your husband.

Unless he's gay. That might work out well for you.

That is not what I meant. What I meant was that I am not concerned - as in have no problem with - in the sexual part of the relationship. I presume I would enjoy it no? I thought that was clear with my sentence "I can accept that marriage and sex are intertwined to an extent that if I give a consent to a marriage that this also includes a consent to sex" so if I say "I do" to a marriage I can accept that I am also consenting to sex. Implicitly that implies he has my consent. Ican also accept that the man takes the lead here, presumably he would do that. I mean that does not give him the right to rape me, but I suppose he can, without saying a word, just turn me over on my back etc. Although, I am not sure how the exact dynamics work.

No, the REST of my life apart from sex is more my concern.

This a very modern way of thinking, and is conflicting with the very nature of patriarchy. Seek first the kingdom of your husband and all these things will be added on to you, or maybe they won't?

I do not need the Kingdom of a husband to reach my goals. Granted, I have an unfair advantage in life, as I will not need to worry about student loans, and if I really mess up my life, I could always get like an accounting job at a family business.

Let's say you want to chase your dream of being a professional athlete. The husband is busy with work, so he can provide for his family. He makes the executive decision that you're to abandon that dream, and stay home taking care of the kids. Would you reject such a command?

I imagine it's not much different that a CEO telling his employees you must return back to the office to work. No more working from home doing close to nothing.

Or - ofc - the Almighty telling you to drop everything and come follow him. Or to leave Sodom and Gomorrah and don't look back to long for it. Everyone has a choice - free will - but choices have consequences as well.

With the exception of a few sports like cross country, and marathon, athletes peak in the ~16-30 range. More then enough time for children later.

Let us look at an extreme situation The husband is a construction worker, the wife is a athlet with a $10 million Nike sponsorship being waved in front of her. If the husband refuses that, then he would border on insanity.

I think in families the person who has the most income potential should have a priority.




[/QUOTE]

 

[Maia]

This is found in The Book of Metrics and also restated in the Third Letter of Paul to the Waitresses.

"A woman must have a Yelp score of 4.5 before she should marry."

Actually googling someone might be solid dating advice.

 

[Mark C]

Actually googling someone might be solid dating advice.

If you 'google' someone and Gulag praises their virtues, I'd say that might be a far bigger red flag than a J6 conviction...

 

[steve]

If you 'google' someone and Gulag praises their virtues, I'd say that might be a far bigger red flag than a J6 conviction...

Idk, a J6 conviction would actually be a resume enhancement, in my book.

 

[Patricia C]

Sex is one of those endlessly fascinating topics for me. The social complexities attached to it I often fail to understand but sometimes I see them more clearly than most people do.

I agree that for some men if sex is their only motivation in a relationship then they're best avoided.

For some others it is an expression of their love for their wife. <<< This is the modern day ideal in the West.

For some men sex is a tool that leads them to a goal. The same can be said of women.

I allow that while the Gift of Sex from God may be misused it isn't always wine and roses when it is used properly.

Way back when I was a young woman who wanted a family and a safe home and sex was what I did to obtain what I wanted.

I met Steve and he wanted me, he wanted me to give him babies, and he wanted me to be in his home.

We definitely did not get married for love. Yet the end result was IMHO Godly.

I'm just saying that a good man can have sexual desires and then act on them in a Godly way.

Yes! Whole heartedly agree!

 

[Patricia C]

If a man clearly states before marriage that his primary desire is sex—whether with many wives or one—and not to build a happy, healthy family, grow a ministry, create wealth with intention, or raise many children, then the reality is this:


1. There will be no balance.


2. Issues are inevitable.


3. In my opinion, there is little honor in that kind of relationship.

Such a man is unlikely to become a great leader. However, if a woman knowingly accepts these terms before marriage, she will have to face the consequences of that decision.

For women—particularly those who are more mature and past the bloom of youth—there is great value in the skills and experiences we bring to the table. These abilities are not just useful; they are essential to the success of a household. A potential husband should recognize and desire these contributions. When each person’s skills complement the others in the home, the husband is uplifted, and the entire household thrives. Isn’t that the essence of bringing honor and respect to him?

But what happens if a woman’s knowledge and talents are dismissed or deemed unnecessary? If a husband tells her she can no longer engage in what she knows and excels at, doesn’t that imply she has no value unless she reshapes herself to fit his vision? In trying to change, she risks losing the essence of who she is—her natural gifts and worth. She may desperately try to become someone else, hoping to win his love, but this often leads to disappointment. He won’t be satisfied because she isn’t fulfilling his expectations, and she will struggle because she isn’t equipped to be someone she isn’t.

Wouldn’t it be wiser to “shop for what you need rather than what you want”? When everyone in the household plays a role that benefits the family, the essential needs are met, and harmony naturally follows. This isn’t about “happy wife, happy life.” It’s about creating a structure where everyone’s contributions matter and the household functions as it should. Adjustments and obstacles will arise, but that’s part of the growth process.

Consider this example:


• On a homestead, Wife A manages the chickens, Wife B takes care of the goats, and the husband tends to the cows. Together, they work in the garden.


• Wife B excels in marketing, Wife A manages the household budget, and the husband is a talented salesman and entrepreneur.


• Their combined efforts produce a product, and each has a role that contributes to the household’s financial success.


• They work from home, allowing the children to learn from and participate in daily responsibilities. Homeschooling is naturally integrated, reinforcing the belief that children learn what they live.

When everyone operates within their strengths, the household thrives, and the family flourishes. The husband is honored and God is exemplified in the family. All Glory belongs to God alone!

Once everyone is secure and thriving—each contributing their skills and working together in harmony—the husband’s sexual desires are naturally met. This fulfillment doesn’t stem solely from the physical aspect of the relationship but is accentuated by the overall sense of stability, cooperation, and success within the household.

When a man feels supported, respected, and uplifted by his wives or wife, his desire grows as a reflection of the unity and balance in their lives. The connection deepens because intimacy is no longer driven by unmet needs or lack but flourishes as a result of shared purpose, mutual respect, and the collective achievements of the family.

In this environment, physical intimacy becomes an extension of the emotional and spiritual bond, reinforcing the sense of partnership. When each person feels valued and fulfilled in their role, the entire dynamic shifts, creating a space where love, respect, and desire flow naturally.


Alright I am done with my soap box

 

[OttoM]

Let us look at an extreme situation The husband is a construction worker, the wife is a athlet with a $10 million Nike sponsorship being waved in front of her. If the husband refuses that, then he would border on insanity.

I think in families the person who has the most income potential should have a priority.

Let's say he does refuse - which is not sin - but your rebellion to his ruling would be considered sin.

The Creator made the man in his image, and gave him rulership and dominion. My advice for young virgins - go find yourselves a high value and righteous man (Rev. 14:12) to be your husband, and show your faith to the Most High by submitting yourselves to his authority:

1 Peter 3:5
This is how the holy women of old made themselves beautiful. They put their trust in God and accepted the authority of their husbands.

1 Timothy 2:13-15
For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived by Satan. The woman was deceived, and sin was the result. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing, assuming they continue to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty.

"If you love me keep my commandments." Jesus Christ submitted himself to the Father - even unto his own crucification. Through his submission came exaltation. But the adversary exalted himself and rebelled against the Almighty. He was humbled and cast down. For rebellion is like the sin of witchcraft.

1 John 3:7-8
Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. 8 But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning.

According to the beloved Apostle John - just because you say you're a "Christian" and that you love Jesus; it doesn't mean anything. You still have to judge their fruit, because they may actually be children of the adversary.

 

[Maia]

Let's say he does refuse - which is not sin - but your rebellion to his ruling would be considered sin.

The Creator made the man in his image, and gave him rulership and dominion. My advice for young virgins - go find yourselves a high value and righteous man (Rev. 14:12) to be your husband, and show your faith to the Most High by submitting yourselves to his authority:

1 Peter 3:5
This is how the holy women of old made themselves beautiful. They put their trust in God and accepted the authority of their husbands.

1 Timothy 2:13-15
For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived by Satan. The woman was deceived, and sin was the result. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing, assuming they continue to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty.

"If you love me keep my commandments." Jesus Christ submitted himself to the Father - even unto his own crucification. Through his submission came exaltation. But the adversary exalted himself and rebelled against the Almighty. He was humbled and cast down. For rebellion is like the sin of witchcraft.

1 John 3:7-8
Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. 8 But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning.

According to the beloved Apostle John - just because you say you're a "Christian" and that you love Jesus; it doesn't mean anything. You still have to judge their fruit, because they may actually be children of the adversary.

Yeah but dad says to ignore fools, and the bible says I am to obey dad correct?

But if you want a verse, here you go:

Whosoever ... hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookback, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken ... He shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries. Leviticus 21:17

We can agree that a broken brain would count eh?


On the topic of bible verses, it has just come to my attention that you are breaking some based on your avatar.

Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same. Luke 3:11
You have two shirts on in your avatar pic sinner. Since I also presume that you are not one to wear 100% linen or something akin, I will also accuse you of being in violation of :

Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19

 

[OttoM]

Yeah but dad says to ignore fools, and the bible says I am to obey dad correct?

But if you want a verse, here you go:

Whosoever ... hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookback, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken ... He shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries. Leviticus 21:17

We can agree that a broken brain would count eh?


On the topic of bible verses, it has just come to my attention that you are breaking some based on your avatar.

Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same. Luke 3:11
You have two shirts on in your avatar pic sinner. Since I also presume that you are not one to wear 100% linen or something akin, I will also accuse you of being in violation of :

Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword.

Does it hurt your pride that the Creator put the wife under the authority of her husband? If so - you’re not alone. Majority of Christian women are aligned with you. And the beta male pastors in churches will tell you what your itching ears want to hear, because they want to keep their job and the $$$$ coming in.

Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19

All my shirts I wear are 100% cotton or linen. 100% cotton shirts are not expensive and easy to find.

 

[theleastofthese]

Does it hurt your pride that the Creator put the wife under the authority of her husband?

It appears as though her feelings hurt your pride more than scripture hurts hers. She doesn't have to like the order of things and luckily for her it's not the only option. She can chose to remain unmarried, find a man who she is compatible with or possibly change her mind all together in the future when she meets the right man. What's the purpose of repeatedly attempting to strong-arm her into feeling a specific way about something that really shouldn't be your concern to begin with...unless I missed the engagement announcement?

 

[Maia]

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword.

Does it hurt your pride that the Creator put the wife under the authority of her husband? If so - you’re not alone. Majority of Christian women are aligned with you. And the beta male pastors in churches will tell you what your itching ears want to hear, because they want to keep their job and the $$$$ coming in.



All my shirts I wear are 100% cotton or linen. 100% cotton shirts are not expensive and easy to find.

I would say it is not arrogance it is confidence. There is a difference. I am confident that I can lead certain aspects of my life better for myself. It is not just abut me, but the employees as well.

There are certain bible verses that we will have to ignore. There are certain bible verses where God is described more like Satan:

Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves. Numbers 31:17-18

Obviously that is unacceptable and goes against the do not murder command as well.

You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT

Yeah no.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. Ephesians 6:5 NLT

Who is the sinner, the slaves who escaped from the plantations of the south, or the slave owners who chased them with dogs? Obviously the slave owners are the sinners. If you disagree, you are wrong, there is no discussion on this.

Like I have stated 1000 times, the Bible was not directly penned by God, but by men, and they have corrupted the Bible like they do everything else. Unfortunately evil has permeated the Bible, and slave owner have slandered the word of God by declaring their crimes to be divine.

 

[Mark C]

Like I have stated 1000 times, the Bible was not directly penned by God, but by men, and they have corrupted the Bible like they do everything else.

Repeating it a million times doesn't make it True!

And the fact that mis-translations exist (and you fell for at least one in the tirade above - there is a MAJOR difference between "bondservice" and "cruel slavery," which Scripture is clear to outline)...
...is a reason to "study, to show yourself approved," so as to "rightly divide the Word," rather than trying to play god (or pope) yourself, and rewrite it to your liking.

 

[Man_in_the_Middle]

Wow, you guys have been busy in this thread while I was gone.

Pro 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

 

[Maia]

Pro 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

What does the bible say about molybdenum and beryllium alloys? Iron is not of much use anymore.