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Pretty sure this is wrong. Evil is a very tangible thing that fills the void left by a lack of God's Presence.
I don't think that is a good interpretation knowing the context of what Jesus was talking about that day. The parable of the good Shepherd, Parable of the lost coin and then Parable of the Prodigal Son. Jesus finishes up in Chapter 14 talking about counting the cost of following him and then opens up in
Luke 15:1 Tax collectors and other notorious sinners came to listen to Jesus teach. 2 This made the Pharisees and teachers of religious law complain that he was associating with such sinful people—even eating with them!
Jesus is explaining the kingdom to sinners and rebuking Pharisees all at the same time. To put this about the houses of Israel is a stretch at best. Plus, I can't think of a better picture of God's love for us than the story of the Prodigal Son. A father's love driving him to run to his boy when he sees him afar off I think sums it up. And how much better is God our father than our earthly father?
Plus, the only early Church father I could find have anything on it also interpreted the story of the prodigal son as we do today so I think that has been the common understanding of it since the beginning.
I hate to sound like a broken record but one more time: we have excellent examples of this principle in heat and light. Both of these things exist physically. They’re real things. You can generate them. You can do things to inject heat and light in to the physical world. Cold and darkness however are none of those things. They don’t exist in any kind of a physical sense. You can’t generate them or inject them into a situation. They are only concepts in order to articulate that some situation has a noticeably lower level of these things than is normal. But there is no physical thing that rushes in to fill the void left by heat and light. You can’t walk in to a lighted room and turn on your flash dark.
Evil is the same way. It doesn’t exist. It simply is the word we use to describe the relative absence of obedience to God’s Will.
It could be assumed that the sole purpose of the events leading up to ninevah repenting was a direct result of God's will, therefore did Jonah truly excersize free will from God's point of view?
I don't think it can be said that God "reacts" to any situation.
I am uncomfortable saying I know Gods point of view that He didn't state clearly say in scripture.
If God doesn't react, why pray for help? There's no need to then.
Gods will is for all to repent and seek salvation (plan for individuals that free will can mess up), also to tabernacle with His people in New Jerusalem (predestined plan for the ecclesia) scripture makes that clear. It also makes it clear that not all will repent and seek salvation. New Jerusalem will be here on earth no matter what, scripture is clear on that.
The Nineveh event was predestined to happen whether it was Jonah obeying The Father and denying his own will by following Gods will or if God used someone else. One example that Gods will be carried out regardless of who does it: Deborah told Barak that if they did things his way the glory would be someone else's a woman's. That shows Barak had a choice, one way led to his glory, the other one to another's glory, either way Gods will was still upheld.
If there was no free will then there would only be His will and we'd still be in the garden. If you don't have a will of your own then you cant disobey. Now I believe we are suppose to get to the point where we have no will of our own. That the purpose of free will is to surrender it out of love to Him. That's the greatest way we can show Him we love Him, by obeying. "If you love me you will obey my instructions."
I am uncomfortable saying I know Gods point of view that He didn't state clearly say in scripture.
If God doesn't react, why pray for help? There's no need to then.
Gods will is for all to repent and seek salvation (plan for individuals that free will can mess up), also to tabernacle with His people in New Jerusalem (predestined plan for the ecclesia) scripture makes that clear. It also makes it clear that not all will repent and seek salvation. New Jerusalem will be here on earth no matter what, scripture is clear on that.
The Nineveh event was predestined to happen whether it was Jonah obeying The Father and denying his own will by following Gods will or if God used someone else. One example that Gods will be carried out regardless of who does it: Deborah told Barak that if they did things his way the glory would be someone else's a woman's. That shows Barak had a choice, one way led to his glory, the other one to another's glory, either way Gods will was still upheld.
If there was no free will then there would only be His will and we'd still be in the garden. If you don't have a will of your own then you cant disobey. Now I believe we are suppose to get to the point where we have no will of our own. That the purpose of free will is to surrender it out of love to Him. That's the greatest way we can show Him we love Him, by obeying. "If you love me you will obey my instructions."
I too am uncomfortable at claiming to know God's point of view, however just as it says His thought are not our thoughts, to claim to truly understand our own point of view about free will and predestination is assuming we know more than we do.
As far as our prays, I don't think God needs to hear them as much we need to say them. The saying is for our benefit. Forcing our will to line up with His will. We can't just pray for anything we like, we have to pray according to His will. Once we learn His will then our prays change us not Him.
I agree with you on the thought that God's will being carried out no matter what as you reference with Deborah. It could also be said for Elijah and Elisha, but I don't think God 'reacts' to our inabilities or wrong 'possible' decisions, but more has created all things to work together for His good.
True, free will got us out of the Garden, or better yet, got Adam and Eve out of the garden and from that created us trying to get back. What if Adam and Eve choose not to eat the fruit? Would we be here?
I hate to sound like a broken record but one more time: we have excellent examples of this principle in heat and light. Both of these things exist physically. They’re real things. You can generate them. You can do things to inject heat and light in to the physical world. Cold and darkness however are none of those things. They don’t exist in any kind of a physical sense. You can’t generate them or inject them into a situation. They are only concepts in order to articulate that some situation has a noticeably lower level of these things than is normal. But there is no physical thing that rushes in to fill the void left by heat and light. You can’t walk in to a lighted room and turn on your flash dark.
Exo 10:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.
Exo 10:22 And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:
Exo 10:23 They saw not one another, neither rose any from his place for three days: but all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.
I am not a robot.
I am a man.
I see a woman.
I want the woman.
I take the woman.
I see food.
I want the food.
I eat the food.
I am tired now.
I go to sleep now.
I do this again tomorrow.
Hard determination makes God unjust. If we're incapable of free will and we sin it's because we were made to sin buy a God who's nature is against sin, there fore causing us to act against His nature then punishing us for it. There is no need for Yeshua to redeem us because we're being redeemed from the actions that God had chosen for us to do. There for we were acting according to His will. Which means there is no sin since sin is against His will. Which means scripture lies. Which means God is not God and there is no salvation in Yeshua because there is no need for salvation.
No free will no reason for Adam and Eve to fall. No need to be saved. If it was predeterminded that theyd fall and sin and death to enter the world through them and curse mankind then that would make God unjust at best evil at worst.
The idea of complete free will is just as flawed and dangerous.
I am uncomfortable saying I know Gods point of view that He didn't state clearly say in scripture.
If God doesn't react, why pray for help? There's no need to then.
Gods will is for all to repent and seek salvation (plan for individuals that free will can mess up), also to tabernacle with His people in New Jerusalem (predestined plan for the ecclesia) scripture makes that clear. It also makes it clear that not all will repent and seek salvation. New Jerusalem will be here on earth no matter what, scripture is clear on that.
The Nineveh event was predestined to happen whether it was Jonah obeying The Father and denying his own will by following Gods will or if God used someone else. One example that Gods will be carried out regardless of who does it: Deborah told Barak that if they did things his way the glory would be someone else's a woman's. That shows Barak had a choice, one way led to his glory, the other one to another's glory, either way Gods will was still upheld.
If there was no free will then there would only be His will and we'd still be in the garden. If you don't have a will of your own then you cant disobey. Now I believe we are suppose to get to the point where we have no will of our own. That the purpose of free will is to surrender it out of love to Him. That's the greatest way we can show Him we love Him, by obeying. "If you love me you will obey my instructions."
I’m going to disagree a little bit. Somewhere in the New Testament it says something about how it was by Noah’s faith that the world was cleansed. It has stunning implications.
I’m going to disagree a little bit. Somewhere in the New Testament it says something about how it was by Noah’s faith that the world was cleansed. It has stunning implications.
By faith Noah, when warned about events not yet seen, in holy fear prepared an ark for the safety of his household. Through faith he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith
The book of Jubilee indicates angels had free will until the time of Noah. Then because of the evilness of their offspring he cleansed heaven and created a righteous Spirit within all who remained. Thereby taking away free will.
And he made for all his works a new and righteous nature, so that they should not sin in their whole nature forever, but should be all righteous each in his kind always. And the judgment of all is ordained and written on the heavenly tablets in righteousness even the judgment of all who depart from the path which is ordained for them to walk in; and if they walk not therein, judgment is written down for every creature and for every kind. And there is nothing in heaven or on earth, or in light or in darkness, or in She'ol or in the depth, or in the place of darkness which is not judged; and all their judgments are ordained and written and engraved. In regard to all he will judge, the great according to his greatness, and the small according to his smallness, and each according to his way. And he is not one who will regard the person of any, nor is he one who will receive gifts, if he says that he will execute judgment on each: if one gave everything that is on the earth, he will not regard the gifts or the person of any, nor accept anything at his hands, for he is a righteous judge. YOVHELIYM (JUBILEES) 5:12-16 את CEPHER
By faith Noah, when warned about events not yet seen, in holy fear prepared an ark for the safety of his household. Through faith he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith
It brings the question, if Noah didn't have faith which is shown in this instance as trust in God and works ,obeying His instructions (a faith without works is dead situation exemplified), would God have destroyed the world (civilization) at that time.
On the risk of further derailment:
Does that mean in modern times the world is condemned because we who are the assembly have faith in Yeshua and and co-heirs (2 Corinthians 5 cumilated in v 21, Romans 8:17, 1 Peter 2:21, John 15:9-11, 1 John 2:6) of that Faith and Righteousness.
It brings the question, if Noah didn't have faith which is shown in this instance as trust in God and works ,obeying His instructions (a faith without works is dead situation exemplified), would God have destroyed the world (civilization) at that time.
It brings the question, if Noah didn't have faith which is shown in this instance as trust in God and works ,obeying His instructions (a faith without works is dead situation exemplified), would God have destroyed the world (civilization) at that time.
On the risk of further derailment:
Does that mean in modern times the world is condemned because we who are the assembly have faith in Yeshua and and co-heirs (2 Corinthians 5 cumilated in v 21, Romans 8:17, 1 Peter 2:21, John 15:9-11, 1 John 2:6) of that Faith and Righteousness.
My take away right now is that God would not have brought the Flood until He had a Noah. It does immediately beg the question then what else is being held back because we aren’t being obedient.
Remember that what we bind on earth is bound in heaven and vice versa.
