Is Porn Use good for Christians?

[FollowingHim]

That's a tough one. And I can't help observing that there is no law in Torah that directly says "don't sleep with a prostitute". Obviously when you take a "sex = marriage" approach then all prostitution is adultery and therefore forbidden on those grounds - but the lack of a direct statement to that effect is interesting. There is a very clear statement that you must not let your daughter become a prostitute (Leviticus 19:29), and there's lots of guidance in Proverbs to beware of loose women, but no law saying don't do it and applying a punishment if you do. There are laws against going after other gods, which would preclude temple prostitutes, but not secular ones. It isn't until we get to Corinthians before there is an absolutely explicit statement that it's completely off limits (someone who has sex with a prostitute becomes one flesh with her, don't do that).

So it's something that is obviously frowned upon and at a bare minimum strongly advised against, if not completely forbidden as always adultery, and therefore something you shouldn't do.

But the lack of direct condemnation of Judah, or anyone else, may reflect this being more "very strong advice" than "law with a punishment attached". And it is clear that prostitution existed in Israel, e.g. the two prostitutes who took a baby to Solomon.

I find it interesting that there is no punishment specified for a woman who is a prostitute, which is shown by how Solomon didn't punish the prostitutes who came to him, but just judged fairly between them on the issue they brought to him. I take this to be due to God's mercy, knowing the realities of life. Women generally become prostitutes as a last resort due to economic hardship, especially in times of crisis like war. It would be far better for someone to marry them. But if nobody offers to do that, outlawing prostitution would take away their last emergency option to earn a living. I think that God is merciful, and does not condemn people for what they do out of desperation - while still encouraging a far better way.

 

[James Pease]

That's a tough one. And I can't help observing that there is no law in Torah that directly says "don't sleep with a prostitute". Obviously when you take a "sex = marriage" approach then all prostitution is adultery and therefore forbidden on those grounds - but the lack of a direct statement to that effect is interesting. There is a very clear statement that you must not let your daughter become a prostitute (Leviticus 19:29), and there's lots of guidance in Proverbs to beware of loose women, but no law saying don't do it and applying a punishment if you do. There are laws against going after other gods, which would preclude temple prostitutes, but not secular ones. It isn't until we get to Corinthians before there is an absolutely explicit statement that it's completely off limits (someone who has sex with a prostitute becomes one flesh with her, don't do that).

So it's something that is obviously frowned upon and at a bare minimum strongly advised against, if not completely forbidden as always adultery, and therefore something you shouldn't do.

But the lack of direct condemnation of Judah, or anyone else, may reflect this being more "very strong advice" than "law with a punishment attached". And it is clear that prostitution existed in Israel, e.g. the two prostitutes who took a baby to Solomon.

I find it interesting that there is no punishment specified for a woman who is a prostitute, which is shown by how Solomon didn't punish the prostitutes who came to him, but just judged fairly between them on the issue they brought to him. I take this to be due to God's mercy, knowing the realities of life. Women generally become prostitutes as a last resort due to economic hardship, especially in times of crisis like war. It would be far better for someone to marry them. But if nobody offers to do that, outlawing prostitution would take away their last emergency option to earn a living. I think that God is merciful, and does not condemn people for what they do out of desperation - while still encouraging a far better way.

Unless you are the daughter of a priest that is, then you will be burned. Also the extremely negative connotation of playing the whore in your father's house which could end in the young woman's death. The father in not to prostitute his daughter or allow his daughter to be a prostitute. Prostitute wages can't even be brought to the temple as an offering either.

 

[James Pease]

Hosea 4:14 is interesting in its implications.

Deuteronomy 23 implies that there is not to be one in Israel, possibly implying being cut off from the assembly in doing so?

17¶'There is not a whore among the daughters of Israel, nor is there a whoremonger among the sons of Israel;

18thou dost not bring a gift of a whore, or a price of a dog, into the house of Jehovah thy God, for any vow; for the abomination of Jehovah thy God are even both of them.

 

[NS4Liberty]

So i ask the queation straight up: why is there no condemnation of Judah participating with a prostitute? I dont think it was a first nor a last.

Judges 16, Sampson lay with a prostitute and kept his strength to remove the city gates. No mention of sin taking place there either.

I think the story of Judah was focused on the fact that he slept with his daughter-in-law that he had wronged by not giving her to his other son. I don't think it was a complete list of all the wrongs he was committing at the time. If I get into a car accident while drinking and driving, I don't think not having insurance is going to make it into the news story.

I think there is something to the idea that God understood the plight of prostitutes and therefore cared for them in a way by not outlawing them outright. It drives my wife nuts, but even today I believe prostitution should not be a criminal issue. Not that I want it to happen, but the State shouldn't be punishing people further who are at rock bottom.

 

[FollowingHim]

Deuteronomy 23 implies that there is not to be one in Israel

It states that there is not to be a genetically Israelite prostitute, anywhere (in or out of the country). It doesn't say foreigners residing in Israel can't be prostitutes, nor that Israelite men can't use their services. Just to be annoyingly pedantic!

 

[James Pease]

It states that there is not to be a genetically Israelite prostitute, anywhere (in or out of the country). It doesn't say foreigners residing in Israel can't be prostitutes, nor that Israelite men can't use their services. Just to be annoyingly pedantic!

Id say that since the wages of the whore are an abomination, we can conjecture that it is not approved lol

 

[MeganC]

Pardon me if I find it (funny?) that a topic about porn is popular while topics about actual sex are not.

I guess that's where we are.

 

[DontheBeeMan]

I love our wives you know what I mean men of God I think even thought of porn is making cheap of our wives love. Why use lust in the marriage it brings sin into the bedroom but with real love you cover sin not that we are supposed to sin but I also wouldn't causie my wife to do so thing they are a blessing from God

 

[The Revolting Man]

That's a tough one. And I can't help observing that there is no law in Torah that directly says "don't sleep with a prostitute". Obviously when you take a "sex = marriage" approach then all prostitution is adultery and therefore forbidden on those grounds - but the lack of a direct statement to that effect is interesting. There is a very clear statement that you must not let your daughter become a prostitute (Leviticus 19:29), and there's lots of guidance in Proverbs to beware of loose women, but no law saying don't do it and applying a punishment if you do. There are laws against going after other gods, which would preclude temple prostitutes, but not secular ones. It isn't until we get to Corinthians before there is an absolutely explicit statement that it's completely off limits (someone who has sex with a prostitute becomes one flesh with her, don't do that).

So it's something that is obviously frowned upon and at a bare minimum strongly advised against, if not completely forbidden as always adultery, and therefore something you shouldn't do.

But the lack of direct condemnation of Judah, or anyone else, may reflect this being more "very strong advice" than "law with a punishment attached". And it is clear that prostitution existed in Israel, e.g. the two prostitutes who took a baby to Solomon.

I find it interesting that there is no punishment specified for a woman who is a prostitute, which is shown by how Solomon didn't punish the prostitutes who came to him, but just judged fairly between them on the issue they brought to him. I take this to be due to God's mercy, knowing the realities of life. Women generally become prostitutes as a last resort due to economic hardship, especially in times of crisis like war. It would be far better for someone to marry them. But if nobody offers to do that, outlawing prostitution would take away their last emergency option to earn a living. I think that God is merciful, and does not condemn people for what they do out of desperation - while still encouraging a far better way.

And one more reason why sex = marriage is the literal gospel truth.

 

[Maddog]

Pardon me if I find it (funny?) that a topic about porn is popular while topics about actual sex are not.

I guess that's where we are.

And what are the limits to sex inside the marriage envelope IF there are any? Kinda like, "Dont do that Darlin', it's sin..."

 

[MeganC]

And one more reason why sex = marriage is the literal gospel truth.

Am I weird in obsessing over how sex changes things between people? What you wrote here is essentially what I feel. Like I was just a random girl before I had sex with my husband and then so many minutes later I was bonded to him for the rest of my life. To me it is an amazing thing that happens and perhaps even a kind of every day miracle.

It is then even more profoundly sad to me when people break up or reduce sex to something casual. It's like going into a church and playing ping pong on the altar like it's no big deal.

 

[FollowingHim]

And what are the limits to sex inside the marriage envelope IF there are any? Kinda like, "Dont do that Darlin', it's sin..."

There is one limit - not when she's got her period (Leviticus 20:18). No other limits are given, other than the obvious soft limits imposed by the need to love.

Many Christians teaching on this will not only make up their own prohibitions, but ignore the only one that is given.

 

[Joleneakamama]

And what are the limits to sex inside the marriage envelope IF there are any? Kinda like, "Dont do that Darlin', it's sin..."

There is one limit - not when she's got her period (Leviticus 20:18).

I've seen discussion here before about anal sex. With some feeling that the "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, it is abomination" means the non-procreative act (misplacing seed) is abomination, and some feeling it is just the gender of the penetrated participant that matters. As long as it is in "the marriage bed" it's OK.

Paul in Romans 1:26 talks about "Even their women exchanged the natural use for that which is against nature." Some try to make this about what is called lesbian relationships because of the verse soon after that talks about "Likewise the men" who were doing things worthy of death with each other. I very much believe that the women were still with their husbands, but because of the lack of security in marriage caused by monogamy only and easy divorce, they were avoiding conception by avoiding procreative natural sex.
Strongs has the Greek word translated 'natural' #5446 close enough to the word translated "nature" #5449 that I can take one picture showing both definitions.

When you really believe children are blessings, you prefer natural relations.
When you suspect the "abomination" (something beneath humanity) is the misuse of procreative equipment, you (edit) might choose to accept two limits on what married folk can do.

 

[FollowingHim]

The problem is, how far do you go? Is anything that cannot lead to pregnancy sin? That broad line includes many things I won't list, use your imagination, but also includes all contraception of any form, and arguably sex with post-menopausal wives - so it's obviously not what you mean. But if in-marriage anal is wrong simply because it is non-reproductive, as you have suggested, that's where the logic goes. So what, really, is "misuse of procreative equipment"? Where is the line?

I prefer to stick with "everything's technically permissible if not forbidden, but if your conscience says no or it wouldn't be loving because her/his conscience says no, don't do it". That ends up ruling out the same things, but without extending the Law using human reason.

 

[Joleneakamama]

The problem is, how far do you go?

It's not really a problem at all, because the only people aware of where a couple chooses to draw a line is them.

But if in-marriage anal is wrong simply because it is non-reproductive, as you have suggested,

I am not suggesting that as the only reason, or that my reasons should be accepted by others. I edited my post as well.

I remember a book Your Body's Many Cries for Water that had a whole chapter discussing the author's opinions on aids. He shared the effect of semen in the colon and suggested it had a detrimental effect on nutrient absorption and immunity as I recall, though it has been 23 years since I read it.

I really can't imagine anyone would claim the anus as the place designed to accommodate a penis, rather it is used by confused men who's desires for each other cause them to do unseemly things. I also suggested Romans 1:26 was about wives with husbands not wives being lesbians.

 

[steve]

In my view, Romans 1:26 may simply be about abortion.

Not that I am arguing for any particular style of sexual fulfillment.

 

[FollowingHim]

To be very clear, the very idea of anal sex disgusts me, and I can't see why anyone would want to penetrate that orifice of their wife when there's a far better one on the other side... I'm just taking a theological position against adding to the law.

 

[frederick]

I'm choking on my popcorn with where this subject matter has gone.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Am I weird in obsessing over how sex changes things between people? What you wrote here is essentially what I feel. Like I was just a random girl before I had sex with my husband and then so many minutes later I was bonded to him for the rest of my life. To me it is an amazing thing that happens and perhaps even a kind of every day miracle.

It is then even more profoundly sad to me when people break up or reduce sex to something casual. It's like going into a church and playing ping pong on the altar like it's no big deal.

That goes so much farther than any theological argument I could make.

 

[NS4Liberty]

I also suggested Romans 1:26 was about wives with husbands not wives being lesbians.

Berean Patriot has a really good study that goes deep into this subject. Follow the link and then skip down to the Female/Female heading. I actually recommend the whole post, but for our discussion here, it is a solid argument against anal even within marriage.

The Bible on Gay and Lesbian (Homosexual) Sex - Berean Patriot

The church’s historical stance on gay/lesbian sex is mostly right, but not 100% right. An error crept in after the church stopped reading the Bible in the original Greek. I will partly break with tradition here, yet the tradition is mostly right with a single significant error. Therefore, please...

www.bereanpatriot.com