Gap theory

[Slumberfreeze]

Most Christians that believe in Satan are opposing him with everything they’ve got.

You have a very different experience than I do here. The fellowships that I've been in have all widely believed in a literal devil, but I'd be hard pressed to point to even a single example of that having any impact on their practices. Then again I've been in a few baptist fellowships and perhaps it is just a quirk of theirs to believe in doctrines that don't actually change their behavior...

How many people in history have felt they were lost to the devil? That they were beyond the reach of God because of their inability to beat satan in the battle for their soul? Contrast that with resist the devil and he will flee.

In the baptist churches I've been in they blamed it on 'just not being strong enough" because almost anything supernatural is academic, but they are functionally the same.

That's exactly what makes me pose the question. Whether we believe in a literal or metaphorical devil: If we believe in a devil that doesn't flee when resisted, we've already departed from the word. Anybody that believes what you quoted here has fallen into the trap of building their doctrines off of one point of data and ignoring others. (And... I would argue, that they are doing it because they are being disingenuous in their own walk)

Just like

. He said “There’s not a lot of point in trying to do that sort of thing. Until God locks up satan we aren’t going to be able to really make a difference.” This man is a respected older gentleman and a deacon in the local church.

This man is only using his understanding of eschatology and a personal devil to ignore what the bible already says about good works, because he's given into defeatism for whatever reason.

I do know some "no demons or devils" types who use the bible as pure political commentary ignoring everything the word says about personal holiness and morality, and don't see any point to prayer at all: but I think it would be a mistake for me to blame that solely on their belief in metaphor. Their problem is they actually just don't believe everything the bible says.

aaaannd I've run out of time. more later?

 

[Jim an Apostle]

If they don’t take the keys to my office I can stroll back in tomorrow! I’ll come back thru the same door I went out, but if the door is closed and I am legally evicted. I cannot come back thru that door!

All very true IF we do not leave our 'house' empty!
If we leave the door unlocked or return to the old path we can re-open the door and re-create the problem. Jesus also said, "Go and sin no more"

 

[Slumberfreeze]

I see absolutely no advantage to believing in a supernatural satan. If there are advantages, please share. In the meantime, when my children do wrong, I will teach them to resist the evil inclination that is their internal adversary. When I am tempted, I will resist, and if my neighbor has a problem with me, I will go to him and try to find out what I did to cause him to hate me. When the government does wrong, I will tell my children that this is the evil in high places that we need to watch out for.

The potential advantage is that a person who believes in literal devils and demons is more likely to cast out demons than someone that doesn't believe in them at all. If I know someone who is really struggling with something they say they just can't kick, I cast out the demon verbally and usually the demon leaves right there and that's the end of the issue. If I personally believed that the adversary was always nothing other than human nature and therefore 'inalienable', I wouldn't have ever gotten around to giving it a try in the first place.

But I only say potential advantage because like I've alluded to before , there are plenty of people who believe in a personal devil who would never do so. Also I believe even if a person believed as you do that the devil is just a metaphor for corrupt human nature, but still said "Get thee behind me" or "In Jesus name, out, unclean spirit" that it would still have the desired effect.Like how I think no two people have quite the same understanding of how the godhead works or how Jesus, the Father, and the Spirit relate to each other, but our prayers all get answered the same.

Aside from that, all the things you listed are things that every believer should be doing. My belief in the existence of a rebellious angel directing the spirits of dead nephilim does not and should not keep me from holding my children accountable for their behavior or resisting temptation myself.

 

[rockfox]

I see absolutely no advantage to believing in a supernatural satan. If there are advantages, please share.

Because it's the truth. Embracing untruth is never good.

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he doesn't exist."

There are people who have converted to Christ out of the occult. If you tell them, pre-conversation, that there is no literal Satan or his demons they'll think your Gospel message a lie. They know they're real from personal experience; some have even met Satan.

Another advantage is that it protects people from error. Making Satan merely metaphorical undermines the sanctity of the scriptures. If the text describing Christ and God verbally interacted with someone is actually just a metaphor, what else could be easily hand waved away. Lots. Just about anything really. Which is why in the past those I've heard denying the literal Satan have all been knee deep in error (not saying you are, but that's been my experience).

Teaching that satan, demons, and other spiritual things are metaphorical undermines belief in God. If Satan, spoke of as real, is merely a metaphor, what other characters in the Bible is also not literally real? Jesus? God? The Holy Spirit?

It also helps people in when dealing with adversity and evil. I've heard testimony from many who have in recent years converted to Christianity after coming face to face with evil in our society. Evil so dark it can only be explained by literal Satanic forces. Evil so tangible it can only be other. So real that studying it brings spiritual oppression. Metaphorical Satan is a wholly insufficient and unsatisfactory explanation for such evil.

It helps make the spiritual real. A lot of Christianity is essentially secularized. Mere morals. Sunday Christianity. Something that is not a lived day to day experience. The devil, if taken seriously as a real literal adversary who is waging war on you, brings the reality of the spiritual into focus. It's one thing to believe in Christianity intellectually. It's another to have literally cast out demons by the power of Christ.

There are some who take a similar tract with the forces of evil in everyday life. Saying fortune tellers / psychics / witches / etc are wrong because they're fake. What happens when you teach that and people come face to face with those in a way that demonstrates they really are true? That is setting people up for a crisis of faith, or to embrace things God says they should not. The truth of the matter is, what they do can be real; because they do it from the power of Satan or demons. They're wrong because they are of Satan, not because they're necessarily fake.

There are many many famous, rich entertainers who have testified on video that they made a literal deal with the devil to become famous; it was how they got their skills even in several cases. If Satan doesn't actually exist, how could there be a problem 'selling your soul' to him? He's just a metaphor after all. Why, soul is probably just a metaphor too at that rate. If Christianity says Satan isn't real, and those who have sold themselves to Satan are literally rewarded for it in the here and now, how can Christianity be the truth? Why would they want to serve that Christ?

 

[Pacman]

Adam' could only affect Him and his unborn offspring.

Um I’m not so sure about that... remember Achan?

Perhaps I’m skimming a bit too much. If you are talking about what’s commonly referred to as the “sin nature” then I think I agree with you. But the physical consequences of sin I think very likely will affect our children. Even those who are already born.

 

[Jim an Apostle]

Um I’m not so sure about that... remember Achan?

Perhaps I’m skimming a bit too much. If you are talking about what’s commonly referred to as the “sin nature” then I think I agree with you. But the physical consequences of sin I think very likely will affect our children. Even those who are already born.

under age and still in your house , yes

 

[Nikud]

The ages of Achan's children were not given. He hid the what he stole in his tent so his entire family was an accomplice to his sinful act. They hid his sin. We are warned to not quickly lay on hands and share in someone's sin.

1 Timothy 5:22

Do not be hasty in granting s’mikhah to anyone, and do not share in other people’s sins — keep yourself pure

Proverbs 29:24-26

The accomplice of a thief hates himself;
he hears himself put under oath but discloses nothing.

Ezekiel 18

18 The word of Adonai came to me saying: 2 “What do you mean by using this proverb in the land of Israel saying,

‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
so the children’s teeth are set on edge?’

3 As I live”—it is a declaration of Adonai—“you will never again use this proverb in Israel. 4 Behold, every living soul is Mine—the soul of father as well as the soul of son—both are Mine. Behold, the soul who sins is the one who will die.

5 “Suppose a man is just and does what is lawful and right: 6 He has not eaten at mountain shrines or lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel. He has not defiled his neighbor’s wife or come near to a woman during niddah. 7 He does not wrong anyone, returns his pledge for a debt, does not commit robbery, gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with a garment. 8 He does not loan with interest or take unjust gain. He keeps his hand from iniquity, executes true justice between people, 9 walks in My laws and keeps My statutes, behaving honestly. Such a person is just—he will surely live.” It is a declaration of Adonai.

10 “Now suppose he fathers a son who is violent, who sheds blood and does any of these things to a brother 11 (though the father himself does none of these things). He has even eaten at mountain shrines, defiled his neighbor’s wife, 12 wronged the poor and needy, taken by robbery, not restored the pledge, lifted up his eyes to the idols, committed abomination, 13 loaned with interest and taken unjust gain. Will he then live? He will not live! He has done all these detestable things. He will surely be put to death and his blood will be on him.

14 “Now behold, suppose he fathers a son who sees all his father’s sins that he committed, and observing, does not do likewise. 15 He does not eat at mountain shrines, or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, or defile his neighbor’s wife, 16 nor does he wrong anyone, take pledged property or commit robbery, but he gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with a garment, 17 withholds his hand from mistreating the poor, does not take interest or increase, practices My laws and walks in My statutes—he will not die for the iniquity of his father, he will surely live.

18 “As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, committed robbery from his brother and did what is not good among his people—behold, he will die for his iniquity. 19 Yet you say, ‘Why does the son not bear the iniquity of the father with him?’ When the son has done what is lawful and right, has kept all My statutes and has done them, he will surely live. 20 The soul that sins, he will die. The son will not bear the iniquity of the father with him, nor will the father bear the iniquity of the son with him. The righteousness of the righteous will be on him and the wickedness of the wicked will be on him. 21 But if the wicked turns from all his sins that he has committed, and keeps all My laws and does what is lawful and right, he will surely live, he will not die. 22 None of his transgressions that he committed will be remembered; because of his righteousness that he practiced, he will live.

23 “Do I delight at all in the death of the wicked?” It is a declaration of Adonai. “Rather, should he not return from his ways, and live? 24 But when the righteous turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity and does according to all the detestable acts that the wicked man does, will he live? None of his righteous deeds that he has done will be remembered; for his trespass that he trespassed and for his sin that he has sinned, for them he will die.

25 “Yet you say, ‘Adonai’s way is unfair!’ Hear now, house of Israel! Is My way not fair? Is it not your ways that are unfair? 26 When the righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, he will die for it; because of his iniquity that he did, he will die. 27 But when the wicked man turns away from his wickedness that he committed and does what is lawful and right, his soul will live. 28 Because he considers and turns away from all his transgressions that he committed, he will surely live, not die. 29 Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of Adonai is unfair!’ House of Israel, are My ways not fair? Is it not your ways that are unfair?

30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways.” It is a declaration of Adonai. “Return, and turn away from all your transgressions, so they would not be a stumbling block of iniquity for you. 31 Cast off from you all your transgressions that you have committed. Make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies”—it is a declaration of Adonai—“so return, and live!”