Polygyny IS a salvation issue.

[The Revolting Man]

II Corinthians 11:4. It's a warning. Those with "eyes to see" will get it - the reason (and he SAYS so!) that Paul GAVE that warning was because, and I quote in modern English, "I'm afraid [when this happens] that you just might put up with it."

There are many people - IMHO - who don't recognize a 'fake jesus' from the Real Messiah, Whose 'job description' is right in the literal meaning of His real Name - the "Salvation of Yah" - Yahushua.

If He was not "sinless" - He was a fake.
If He violated Deuternomy 13, he was a fake, and even, by His own Word, deserving of death.

If He taught against His own Instruction about marriage, as just one example relevant here, He was a fake.

But He - the Real One - did not.

And - IMHO again - the reason He gave us SO much information, so many 'proof texts' through His "torah and prophets" (as He referenced in that verse you don't like, Matthew 5:17-19) about His Character, and thus 'name' and very Identity, was so there would be no doubt about the real versus the fake.

"Because false christs" WILL arise and deceive NOT just many, but, "if possible, even the elect." (Matthew 24:24)

He said so!
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven..."
What, even if they say 'the Prayer'? Could there possibly be something more?
"Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’"

Hmm. "in your name." Wouldn't that be enough? What is He getting at here? Does He really expect (for example) them to have the ability to discern between Him and an imposter? (The demons, even, in Act 19:15 seemed to have a clue.)

“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matthew 7:21-23)
Interesting. Wonder what He could've mean by THAT? I guess "some" will understand what He meant, "many" - maybe even "most" won't see it.

"...for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." (Matthew 7:13-14 - that very same Sermon on the Mount where He said "not one yod or tiddle" would change, at least 'till He finished the speech.)

If "salvation" was so trivial that all it took was mouthing a few words, then why did He (and His 'taught-ones') spend so much time issuing warnings about "false christs" and "false prophets," and "see that you are not deceived"?

SO, just because you asked so nicely this time, Zec, I will venture an OPINION:

If people are duped into worshipping "another jesus, who [Paul and company] did not preach" --
instead of the real "Salvation of YHVH" then perhaps they have a concern.

NO - let me be VERY clear:

I am NOT telling ANYONE that they are, or are NOT, "saved."

Just that there are enough clear warnings in Scripture, and enough "fake" out there, that there is a reason we are told to "work out your own Salvation with fear and trembling."

And a 'jesus' who allegedly re-wrote his own 'word' to outlaw something - polygyny, patriarchy, and His Instruction about marriage - that was literally the foundation of His people, is a prime candidate for such a fake. IMHO.

But again, “another Jesus” didn’t factor into these verses. This sounds like a “No true Scotsman” argument. “No one who knows the real Jesus wouldn’t agree with me!”

It’s a logical fallacy and doesn’t make a case for what people should actually believe.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Paul warns us to walk the walk in fear and trembling lest we arrogantly assume that we have made the correct pronouncement and are secure in our place. Be careful that you aren’t helping people feel secure when the Holy Spirit is attempting to draw them into a deeper walk.

This truth has universal application.

 

[OttoM]

I asked him how he knows that he is not saved and he told me that it is because he has not been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Exodus 33:19
I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

[ how do I get saved then? I confessed with my mouth that Jesus is Lord and believed in my heart that God raised him from the dead. I believe this with every fiber of my being. Am I not going to the kingdom of God?

We are instructed to rightly divide the Word. There’s a passage in Deuteronomy that states that if a man seduces a virgin, then he must marry her. If you just take that verse alone - without properly dividing it - then you can fall into error. What if someone no good took her virginity? The father has zero authority? When the Word is properly divided - we know that indeed the father has authority:

Exodus 22:16
If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife. 17 If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride-price for virgins

Likewise with some of Paul’s statements. You have to properly divide the Word. Yahushua the Messiah said - “If you love me keep my commandments.” Also here by his beloved apostle John:

1 John 3:23-24 NLT
23 And this is his commandment: We must believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as he commanded us. 24 Those who obey God’s commandments remain in fellowship with him, and he with them. And we know he lives in us because the Spirit he gave us lives in us.

End of the day - the Creator has final authority. He will give his grace and salvation to whom he will give his grace and salvation to. Love YAH with all your heart soul and strength. Serve and worship him.

 

[OttoM]

Hebrews 4:8 KJV
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

Hebrews 4:8 NKJV
For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.

Joshua’s/Jesus’ name is translated to “Iēsous” in the Greek. In the Greek septuagint (Old Testament in the Greek), the book of Joshua is called the book of Iesous.

So Joshua has the same name of the Promised Messiah.

So what is Joshua’s name in Hebrew?

It is Yahushua - which means - Yah is Salvation.

Joshua’s name in the Hebrew carries part of the Father’s name. The Son also said he came in his Father’s name. Many of the prophets also came in the name of the Father. For example, Jeremiah’s name in the Hebrew is YirmeYAHU. Also - the tribe of Judah - has the full name of the Father in Heaven. The only difference is that the word of Judah (Yahudah) has one extra letter. The letter “d” in the Hebrew. It’s one of the easiest ways to find the true name of our Creator. He has placed it in the name of the tribe his Son would come from.

The Hebrew word for “salvation” is Yeshua. Joshua’s name in the Hebrew - has that “Shua” at the end of his name:


YahuShua - Yah is Salvation
YeShua - Salvation
Yahuah - The name of the Father
Yahudah - The name of the tribe of Judah

 

[Mark C]

... “No true Scotsman” argument. “No one who knows the real Jesus wouldn’t agree with me!”

It’s a logical fallacy...

Actually, the more apropos rendering is the "No True Moderator" argument: No one who doesn't agree is allowed; the rest are consigned to the Ghetto or exiled.

It's a censorship fallacy...

PS> And it's clear you don't even understand the concept of that "logical fallacy":

"No True Scotsman" is named "Mohammed." And I don't expect you to get it...

 

[The Revolting Man]

Actually, the more apropos rendering is the "No True Moderator" argument: No one who doesn't agree is allowed; the rest are consigned to the Ghetto or exiled.

It's a censorship fallacy...

PS> And it's clear you don't even understand the concept of that "logical fallacy":

"No True Scotsman" is named "Mohammed." And I don't expect you to get it...

No one gets it Mark. There’s nothing to get. You’re just doing a bad Yoda impersonation in a desperate hope that someone might fall for it.

 

[Mark C]

You assume everyone is as clueless as you are.

 

[steve]

Why this?
Why didn’t he just tell him to believe?

18And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. 20Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. 21And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. 22Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. 23And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

 

[frederick]

Why this?
Why didn’t he just tell him to believe?

18And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. 20Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. 21And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. 22Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. 23And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

Notice the question the ruler asked; Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
The ruler was asking about the works he could do to earn salvation and Jesus told him he had to keep the law; i.e. be sinless. 21And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. The ruler didn't know his sinful state and therefore, what to believe in Him for. Through His response Jesus exposed the pride in this man's heart and his unwillingness to follow the instruction Jesus gave him. 23And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

Before Jesus gave the good news, this man needed to hear the bad news.

 

[Mark C]

The story is repeated more than once by the Witnesses; Luke tells the version again, and with a 'lawyer' trying to trick Him.

THAT time, He gives a slightly different response:

"He said to him, “What is written in the torah? What is your reading?” (Luke 10:26) And the man responds by quoting the 'shema' - which Yahushua had already declared the "Greatest Commandment,," and the "second like unto it."

So [the man] answered and said, “‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ [Deut 6:5] and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’ 

Yahushua's response: "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

What then follows is often referred to as the story of the 'good Samaritan.' What much of 'churchianity' fails to grasp is just exactly who the Samaritans were, and why they were reviled.

After the story, Yahushua asked the man, "So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?”
And he said, “He who showed mercy on him.” Then Yahushua said to him, “Go and do likewise.”

 

[steve]

Notice the question the ruler asked; Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
The ruler was asking about the works he could do to earn salvation and Jesus told him he had to keep the law; i.e. be sinless. 21And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. The ruler didn't know his sinful state and therefore, what to believe in Him for. Through His response Jesus exposed the pride in this man's heart and his unwillingness to follow the instruction Jesus gave him. 23And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

Before Jesus gave the good news, this man needed to hear the bad news.

Notice that Yeshuah didn’t say “Nothing is needed to be done, just believe.”

 

[frederick]

Notice that Yeshuah didn’t say “Nothing is needed to be done, just believe.”

Yes, exactly. The ruler was ignorant of his need for salvation from sin based on the work of Christ, and it not being something he himself could  do. Even today, most people don't understand the legal relationship between their sin and the substitutionary sacrifice of Jesus Christ. They think there is something they need to add or do rather than trusting in and relying upon what has been completed.

The jailer in Philippi had a better understanding when he asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household” (Acts 16:30, 31).

 

[OttoM]

Yes, exactly. The ruler was ignorant of his need for salvation from sin based on the work of Christ, and it not being something he himself could  do. Even today, most people don't understand the legal relationship between their sin and the substitutionary sacrifice of Jesus Christ. They think there is something they need to add or do rather than trusting in and relying upon what has been completed.

The jailer in Philippi had a better understanding when he asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household” (Acts 16:30, 31).

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 3:8
8 Prove by the way you live that you have repented of your sins and turned to God. 9 Don’t just say to each other, ‘We’re safe, for we are descendants of Abraham.’ That means nothing, for I tell you, God can create children of Abraham from these very stones. 10 Even now the ax of God’s judgment is poised, ready to sever the roots of the trees. Yes, every tree that does not produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into the fire.

 

[steve]

Yes, exactly. The ruler was ignorant of his need for salvation from sin based on the work of Christ, and it not being something he himself could  do. Even today, most people don't understand the legal relationship between their sin and the substitutionary sacrifice of Jesus Christ. They think there is something they need to add or do rather than trusting in and relying upon what has been completed.

The jailer in Philippi had a better understanding when he asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household” (Acts 16:30, 31).

Truth is defined by Yeshuah’s answer, the ignorance of the questioner notwithstanding.

I get it that Yeshuah’s response doesn’t apply to everyone’s salvation, we don’t all have to sell everything that we own in order to have eternal life.
But the fact is inescapable that he told this man that, for him, that was what it was going to take. We can surmise as to why, but we can’t ignore the fact that Yeshuah put the bar that high for the man.

 

[Mark C]

[People] think there is something they need to add or do rather than trusting in and relying upon what has been completed.

Truth is defined by Yeshuah’s answer, the ignorance of the questioner notwithstanding.

I get it that Yeshuah’s response doesn’t apply to everyone’s salvation, we don’t all have to sell everything that we own in order to have eternal life.
But the fact is inescapable that he told this man that, for him, that was what it was going to take. We can surmise as to why, but we can’t ignore the fact that Yeshuah put the bar that high for the man.

Perhaps THE worst "twisting" (II Peter 3:15-16) of the letters of Shaul/Paul has to do with "works vs 'grace'," and the anti-Scriptural inference (from so much of 'xtianity') that since you can't "earn" it, better not to DO anything.

Yahushua puts it FAR more simply, far more clearly, far more unarguably:

"IF you love Me, keep My commands." (John 14:15)

If it's true, it's just the least we can do.

 

[MemeFan]

Truth is defined by Yeshuah’s answer, the ignorance of the questioner notwithstanding.

I get it that Yeshuah’s response doesn’t apply to everyone’s salvation, we don’t all have to sell everything that we own in order to have eternal life.

But the fact is inescapable that he told this man that, for him, that was what it was going to take. We can surmise as to why, but we can’t ignore the fact that Yeshuah put the bar that high for the man.

Because almost certainly this man lived from taxes. Since taxation is theft, his property is immorally acquired.

Same situation with David and Betsheba. You can't steal another's man wife, not show any repentance and expect reward for sin.

Corrective actions first, then acceptance.

 

[steve]

Because almost certainly this man lived from taxes. Since taxation is theft, his property is immorally acquired.

Same situation with David and Betsheba. You can't steal another's man wife, not show any repentance and expect reward for sin.

Corrective actions first, then acceptance.

Interesting possibility.