Is Porn Use good for Christians?

[Joshua]

Incorrect definition of "covet". When Moses picks elders from the camp: men of truth, such as fear God and hate covetousness, yes. That word has to do with a desire to take unjustly. However, the word for "covet" in the ten commandments is a different word altogether. One could almost say it means to find delightful, or to be a source of delight. The implication of wanting or planning to take unjustly isn't inherent in the Hebrew word.

One should delight in what God gives to them, or in what is free for the taking and not let something or someone that is taken to be a source of desire, even if there is no intent to take unjustly.

H2530 hamad

Desire:
a. in bad sense of inordinate, ungoverned, selfish desire, followed by accusative Exodus 20:17(twice in verse) (E)＝Deuteronomy 5:18(Deuteronomy 5:18b has תִּתְאַוֶּה), Exodus 34:24 (JE) Deuteronomy 7:25; Joshua 7:21 (JE) Micah 2:2; Proverbs 12:12; of lustful desire Proverbs 6:25.
b.＝take pleasure in, of idolatrous tendency Isaiah 1:29, so participle plural חֲמוּדֵיהֵםIsaiah 44:9 their delightful things (things in which they delight, see also Isaiah 44:11 and BevJPhoenician xvii. 1888. p. 126); לֵצִיםלָצוֺן חָֽמְדוּ Proverbs 1:22 how long do scorners delight in scoring.
c. less often in good sense, said of God לְשִׁבְתּוֺהָהָר חָמַד א׳, poetic Psalm 68:17; object the suffering servant of י׳, Isaiah 53:2 no beauty in him, that we should desire him (choose him, be drawn toward him); passive participle collective חֲמוּדוֺ Psalm 39:12 his desired things, i. e. chosen, choice, desirable (see Niph.); so probably Job 20:20.

Yeah it does say desire; in a bad way… do your research next time please.

 

[NickF]

H2530 hamad

Desire:
a. in bad sense of inordinate, ungoverned, selfish desire, followed by accusative Exodus 20:17(twice in verse) (E)＝Deuteronomy 5:18(Deuteronomy 5:18b has תִּתְאַוֶּה), Exodus 34:24 (JE) Deuteronomy 7:25; Joshua 7:21 (JE) Micah 2:2; Proverbs 12:12; of lustful desire Proverbs 6:25.
b.＝take pleasure in, of idolatrous tendency Isaiah 1:29, so participle plural חֲמוּדֵיהֵםIsaiah 44:9 their delightful things (things in which they delight, see also Isaiah 44:11 and BevJPhoenician xvii. 1888. p. 126); לֵצִיםלָצוֺן חָֽמְדוּ Proverbs 1:22 how long do scorners delight in scoring.
c. less often in good sense, said of God לְשִׁבְתּוֺהָהָר חָמַד א׳, poetic Psalm 68:17; object the suffering servant of י׳, Isaiah 53:2 no beauty in him, that we should desire him (choose him, be drawn toward him); passive participle collective חֲמוּדוֺ Psalm 39:12 his desired things, i. e. chosen, choice, desirable (see Niph.); so probably Job 20:20.

Yeah it does say desire; in a bad way… do your research next time please.

A little humility is in order young man. You need to look that word up again and read all the usages. You just accidentally accused the Most High of doing wrong. Psalm 68:16

H2530 - ḥāmaḏ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

H2530 - חָמַד châmad, khaw-mad'; a primitive root; to delight in:—beauty, greatly beloved, covet, delectable thing, ( great) delight, desire, goodly, lust, (be) pleasant (thing), precious (thing).

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[frederick]

Okay what about all the single men?

Good grief, if they are single and want some action they are to avoid fornication by having their own woman. Read 1 Cor. 7:1-9.

Or men with one wife who don’t seem to be satisfied while they search for more

First, they can make the best of the one God has given. Maybe they can spice up the bedroom action, making some videos for themselves and their wife to watch later. Be imaginative.

or their wife would cause strife in the house if they got more?

Don't create problems, solve them! Work toward solutions, not complicating life. Look at the examples we are given in the Bible of people in difficult situations, who persevered through those difficulties and turned them into blessings. Shalom

 

[theleastofthese]

You are asking all the right questions!

Agreed. It is crucial to determine what exactly constitutes sin. If we start criticizing people and demanding they repent for sinful acts based on our own predisposition, we are no better than most modern-day churches.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Agreed. It is crucial to determine what exactly constitutes sin. If we start criticizing people and demanding they repent for sinful acts based on our own predisposition, we are no better than most modern-day churches.

If my theology allowed for women preachers I would loudly and with outstretched arm declare, “Preach it sister! Only God can declare sin and His Laws are just and His instructions clear!”

 

[Shadowjak's Dancer]

H2530 hamad

Desire:
a. in bad sense of inordinate, ungoverned, selfish desire, followed by accusative Exodus 20:17(twice in verse) (E)＝Deuteronomy 5:18(Deuteronomy 5:18b has תִּתְאַוֶּה), Exodus 34:24 (JE) Deuteronomy 7:25; Joshua 7:21 (JE) Micah 2:2; Proverbs 12:12; of lustful desire Proverbs 6:25.
b.＝take pleasure in, of idolatrous tendency Isaiah 1:29, so participle plural חֲמוּדֵיהֵםIsaiah 44:9 their delightful things (things in which they delight, see also Isaiah 44:11 and BevJPhoenician xvii. 1888. p. 126); לֵצִיםלָצוֺן חָֽמְדוּ Proverbs 1:22 how long do scorners delight in scoring.
c. less often in good sense, said of God לְשִׁבְתּוֺהָהָר חָמַד א׳, poetic Psalm 68:17; object the suffering servant of י׳, Isaiah 53:2 no beauty in him, that we should desire him (choose him, be drawn toward him); passive participle collective חֲמוּדוֺ Psalm 39:12 his desired things, i. e. chosen, choice, desirable (see Niph.); so probably Job 20:20.

Yeah it does say desire; in a bad way… do your research next time please.

Desire in a bad way does not necessarily equate to desire to take unjustly.

They are different words, as I previously stated, and have different implications. You presume much about my supposed lack of study. How fluent in Hebrew are you, exactly?

 

[Joshua]

A little humility is in order young man. You need to look that word up again and read all the usages. You just accidentally accused the Most High of doing wrong. Psalm 68:16

H2530 - ḥāmaḏ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

H2530 - חָמַד châmad, khaw-mad'; a primitive root; to delight in:—beauty, greatly beloved, covet, delectable thing, ( great) delight, desire, goodly, lust, (be) pleasant (thing), precious (thing).

www.blueletterbible.org

Exodus 20:17 is listed as a use for ungoverned inordinate selfish desire, in my post from brown-driver-Briggs lexicon, right? If I’m wrong I’ll gladly admit it but it looks right to me

 

[Joshua]

Good grief, if they are single and want some action they are to avoid fornication by having their own woman. Read 1 Cor. 7:1-9.


First, they can make the best of the one God has given. Maybe they can spice up the bedroom action, making some videos for themselves and their wife to watch later. Be imaginative.


Don't create problems, solve them! Work toward solutions, not complicating life. Look at the examples we are given in the Bible of people in difficult situations, who persevered through those difficulties and turned them into blessings. Shalom

Your solutions are also good; while mine likewise remain without scriptural prohibition.

 

[NickF]

Exodus 20:17 is listed as a use for ungoverned inordinate selfish desire, in my post from brown-driver-Briggs lexicon, right? If I’m wrong I’ll gladly admit it but it looks right to me

One usage does not constitute the totality.

I’ll reiterate. Have you read all the uses? Because you seem to be putting more stock in a lexicon than the Word. The ideas of a man who made the lexicon are useful but do not actually define the word.

Again… I encourage you to actually read the uses of the word in question before you tell others to do research you haven’t done yourself.

I don’t say that to be divisive. Or to denigrate. But rather to encourage you to be a bit more cautious and conservative.

 

[Joshua]

One usage does not constitute the totality.

I’ll reiterate. Have you read all the uses? Because you seem to be putting more stock in a lexicon than the Word. The ideas of a man who made the lexicon are useful but do not actually define the word.

Again… I encourage you to actually read the uses of the word in question before you tell others to do research you haven’t done yourself.

I don’t say that to be divisive. Or to denigrate. But rather to encourage you to be a bit more cautious and conservative.

Aren’t lexicons dictionary definitions? And we have to use context, obviously it’s not regular desire or delight because that is required before buying your neighbors car or land, rather it is the technical term covet, which is referenced by lust in the New Testament, and if you do that towards a married woman you commit adultery in your heart, because you are imagining and willing to take her unlawfully. I’ll leave this be though. I would like to know what all of your views are on when a physical relationship enters “sex”, the specific act/s that “uncover nakedness” or cause “one flesh”

 

[NickF]

Can you answer the question? Have you read all the uses? Let’s start from that foundation. Are you using the contextual definition, or a lexicon? Because I use the contextual definition. If you won’t, then there’s no point in discussion since we are talking past each other.

 

[Joshua]

These are all the uses, I definitely think considering the context of your neighbor owning things, and we often buy things from our neighbor, we first have to delight in them, but not covet unlawfully. Let me know if you think any of the positive desire definitions fit.

Strong's Definitions: חָמַד châmad, khaw-mad'; a primitive root; to delight in:—beauty, greatly beloved, covet, delectable thing, (× great) delight, desire, goodly, lust, (be) pleasant (thing), precious (thing).

Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon​

[Jump to Scripture Index]
STRONGS H2530:
† חָמַד verb desire, take pleasure in (Aramaic חֲמַד (not in Syriac); Arabic حَمِدَ praise, eulogize, appove of; Sabean חמדם in gratitude [praise] there-for DHMZMG 1875, 595; 1876, 686) —
Qal Perfect ח׳ Psalm 68:17; Proverbs 12:12; חָֽמְדוּ Proverbs 1:22; וְחָֽמְדוּ consecutive Micah 2:2; חֲמַדְתֶּם Isaiah 1:29; Imperfectיַחְמֹד Exodus 34:24; 2nd person masculine singular תַּחְמֹד Exodus 20:16 (twice in verse) + 3 times (including Proverbs 6:25 jussive); suffix וָאֶחְמְדֵם Joshua 7:21; וְנֶחְמְדֵ֫הוּ Isaiah 53:2; Passive participle חֲמוּדוֺ Psalm 39:12; Job 20:20, חֲמוּדֵיהֶם Isaiah 44:9; — desire:
a. in bad sense of inordinate, ungoverned, selfish desire, followed by accusative Exodus 20:17(twice in verse) (E)＝Deuteronomy 5:18(Deuteronomy 5:18b has תִּתְאַוֶּה), Exodus 34:24 (JE) Deuteronomy 7:25; Joshua 7:21 (JE) Micah 2:2; Proverbs 12:12; of lustful desire Proverbs 6:25.
b.＝take pleasure in, of idolatrous tendency Isaiah 1:29, so participle plural חֲמוּדֵיהֵםIsaiah 44:9 their delightful things (things in which they delight, see also Isaiah 44:11 and BevJPhoenician xvii. 1888. p. 126); לֵצִיםלָצוֺן חָֽמְדוּ Proverbs 1:22 how long do scorners delight in scoring.
c. less often in good sense, said of God לְשִׁבְתּוֺהָהָר חָמַד א׳, poetic Psalm 68:17; object the suffering servant of י׳, Isaiah 53:2 no beauty in him, that we should desire him (choose him, be drawn toward him); passive participle collective חֲמוּדוֺ Psalm 39:12 his desired things, i. e. chosen, choice, desirable (see Niph.); so probably Job 20:20.
Niph. Participle נֶחְמָד Genesis 2:9 + 2 times; הַנֶּחֱמָדִים Psalm 19:11; — desirable: עץ נ׳לְמַרְאֶה Genesis 2:9, לְהַשְׂכִּיל נ׳ Genesis 3:6, מִזָּהָב הַנֶּח׳ Psalm 19:11 which are more desirable than gold; אוֺצָר נֶחְמָד Proverbs 21:20desirable, i.e. costly treasure.
Pi. Perfect 1st person singular delight greatlyוְיָשַׁ֫בְתִּי בְּצִלּוֺ ח׳ Songs 2:3 in his shadow I greatly delighted and sate, i.e. sate with great delight.

† [חֲמוּדָה] noun feminine desirableness, preciousness — Plural absolute חֲמוּדוֺתDaniel 9:23; חֲמוּדֹת Ezra 8:37; חֲמֻדוֺת2 Chronicles 20:25 + 4 times; חֲמֻדֹתGenesis 27:15; construct חֲמֻדוֺת Daniel 11:43; — desirable, choice things i.e. garments Genesis 27:15(|| בגדים); compare Daniel 11:38 (|| אבן יקרה), Daniel 11:43 (חֲמֻדוֺת מִצְרַיִם);＝precious things Ezra 8:27 (as gold); כלי ח׳2 Chronicles 20:25; לֶחֶם ח׳ Deuteronomy 10:3; of man only אִישׁחֿ׳ Daniel 10:11, 19, and, without אישׁ, אָ֫תָּה ח׳ Daniel 9:23 thou art a precious treasure (on construction see Dr§ 189, 2; see Bev and compare negative חמד Isaiah 53:2).

 

[FollowingHim]

These are all the uses

No, they aren't. @Joshua, you do not understand what @NickF is saying. I'll explain in more detail. There are two valid but different ways of working out the definition of a Biblical word:

1) Checking the definition that other scholars believe the word has, using a lexicon. That is what you are doing - and this is a good starting point, but it's only a starting point. It is the opinion of a scholar, who may be wrong, but is probably in the right ballpark. Reading someone else's opinion is usually a good shortcut to getting a basic understanding.

2) Checking all the times this word is used in the Bible, using a concordance, reading these verses, and gaining an understanding of what the word means from how the Bible uses it. Using scripture to interpret scripture. This is the next step, the most important step, and how you gain depth of understanding. It's also what those scholars did to write the lexicon in the first place. The lexicon is a summary, and does not include everything, it is only through actually looking at usage of the word that you can understand it fully. Where a word is used rarely in scripture (some Greek words only appear once in the New Testament so there's nothing to compare them to), this sort of study will sometimes also involve referring to ancient secular texts and seeing how they used the word, to help understand what it means. Again, the writers of lexicons do this.

If you go to the below link you'll find a more comprehensive entry on H2530. At the top of the page is the lexicon definitions that you have referred to, but keep scrolling down. The most important section is the "Concordance Results", which says the word occurs 28 times in 27 verses, and then lists every verse that the word occurs in. You need to read all of these verses in order to understand what the word means.

H2530 - ḥāmaḏ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

H2530 - חָמַד châmad, khaw-mad'; a primitive root; to delight in:—beauty, greatly beloved, covet, delectable thing, ( great) delight, desire, goodly, lust, (be) pleasant (thing), precious (thing).

www.blueletterbible.org

And if you do that, you will soon notice what @NickF is saying: that this word is not always used negatively. Sometimes it is used positively. For example, in Psalm 68:16
"Why leap ye, ye high hills? this is the hill which God desireth to dwell in; yea, the LORD will dwell in it for ever."
The word "desireth" is H2530. This clearly tells us that God desires, or covets something. As he cannot desire "in a bad way", then covet cannot mean only desire "in a bad way".

As the majority of the time the word does refer to bad forms of coveting, the author of the lexicon has simply summarised what it usually means. But there are important exceptions to that, which you miss if you just read the lexicon and don't do your own reading of every time it is actually used in scripture.

 

[OttoM]

As the majority of the time the word does refer to bad forms of coveting, the author of the lexicon has simply summarised what it usually means. But there are important exceptions to that, which you miss if you just read the lexicon and don't do your own reading of every time it is actually used in scripture.

Similar with drinking. You can drink alcohol in a good way. But you can also drink alcohol in a bad way (getting drunk and wasted). Likewise with desire or coveting. One can say that Jacob desired Rachel. That was never attributed to him as sin.

Now - if Rachel belonged to another man (engaged or married), then it would had been sin if he knew the fact of the matter, and he continued to desire/covet her.

I’ve seen some people ban drinking alcohol altogether. Calling it sin. That would implicate Yahshua being a sinner, because he had alcohol. Then they go outside of scripture and make claims like “wine back then didn’t have alcohol.” They do the same with polygyny.