Worst case I had heard is guy for stopping porn with cold turney method. He wasn't able to sleep for 6 nights.
Dopamine is dangerous when stimulated by wrong things. There is reason addictions aren't considered beateable by strong will.
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Is Porn Use good for Christians?
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Dopamine is dangerous when stimulated by wrong things. There is reason addictions aren't considered beateable by strong will.
No. This will always be worse before better period. It must be so because body needs adjustment period.Can you beat a porn addiction without making it worse?
No, but you flick it.Can you beat a porn addiction without making it worse?
I got exposed to porn around junior high (went to a Christian school and was shown by older students) and it became a big vice for years. What really killed it for me was just a better understanding of Biblical marriage and a want to be a true patriarchal man. I was disgusted with the perversion of marriage, the homoerotic themes, the manipulation of the women in the industry, and the pathetic men it seemed to create. Because of this I was disgusted with myself. I would never want my women used or seen like that. I would never want my daughters in that disgusting position. To watch it is to support it.
A strong will is required. Both to end addiction and just to be better than you were before. But nothing is accomplished by ourselves, but by strength given to us of God.
"For the One working in you is God - both to will and to work for His good pleasure" Philippians 2:13
"The God of Israel is He who gives strength and power to His people" Psalm 68:35
"Beware lest you say in your heart, ‘My power and the might of my hand have gotten me this wealth.’ You shall remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you power to get wealth, that he may confirm his covenant that he swore to your fathers, as it is this day" Deuteronomy 8:17-18
A song that helped at the time was East to West by Casting Crowns. The lyric "I don't have to see the man I've been come rising up in me again" specifically.
A strong will is required. Both to end addiction and just to be better than you were before. But nothing is accomplished by ourselves, but by strength given to us of God.
"For the One working in you is God - both to will and to work for His good pleasure" Philippians 2:13
"The God of Israel is He who gives strength and power to His people" Psalm 68:35
"Beware lest you say in your heart, ‘My power and the might of my hand have gotten me this wealth.’ You shall remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you power to get wealth, that he may confirm his covenant that he swore to your fathers, as it is this day" Deuteronomy 8:17-18
A song that helped at the time was East to West by Casting Crowns. The lyric "I don't have to see the man I've been come rising up in me again" specifically.
I think understanding it in terms of addiction is very important to the answer of the threads original question.
If it were good, why has it become the Master of so many men? Why does it function like the bait in a bird snare? Lure you in and never let you out?
That function should be major clue.
The fact is, men are naturally polygynous. Porn is a pseudo-satisfier, but one that can be done on the cheap and easy. If you want ten women irl, you need to build such a house as can sustain them, be prepared for relationships and children responsibilities, etc. There is a lot to strive for.
The Capitalists should be happy to reward that, but it is easier to sell one woman, or her pictures, 100,000 times for ad revenue or a small monthly subscription.
Also, because it is easier to justify publicly, or hide, the cost to benefit ratio makes more sense to the average male who wants to get his jollies off.
I strongly believe that porn is just another symptom of the weird MO stranglehold that manages access to wives one at a time, but whores by the millions
If it were good, why has it become the Master of so many men? Why does it function like the bait in a bird snare? Lure you in and never let you out?
That function should be major clue.
The fact is, men are naturally polygynous. Porn is a pseudo-satisfier, but one that can be done on the cheap and easy. If you want ten women irl, you need to build such a house as can sustain them, be prepared for relationships and children responsibilities, etc. There is a lot to strive for.
The Capitalists should be happy to reward that, but it is easier to sell one woman, or her pictures, 100,000 times for ad revenue or a small monthly subscription.
Also, because it is easier to justify publicly, or hide, the cost to benefit ratio makes more sense to the average male who wants to get his jollies off.
I strongly believe that porn is just another symptom of the weird MO stranglehold that manages access to wives one at a time, but whores by the millions
That’s a fair assessment.
Devon Eriksen has great post on Twitter why. It's also guide how to fix sociall ills:
<Mod redacted>
Okay, as an anarchocapitalist, I consider conservatives to be allies on most political issues. Also, most of my personal friends come from their ranks, and their own lives are much better sorted out than most lefties. They're usually decent people.
But must they be so goddamned dumb?
Never ascribe to a conspiracy that which can be adequately explained by unplanned financial self-interest.
Porn is not a Jewish conspiracy to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids, okay?
It's a market correction for the gap between the male demand for sexual release, and the female supply of desirable and willing partners. You know, a market correction? That thing that happens in the free market? You remember the free market, right?
It's that thing conservatives praise occasionally, but immediately turn against every time it points out a gap between their ideals and the reality on the ground.People are just making money selling porn to horny men. That's all it is.
But what conservatives are never, never asking themselves is, why are there so many horny men around? Why is there such a demand for porn, when it's transparently obvious that no man in the world prefers porn to an attractive and enthusiastic female partner (or two)?
No, they never ask themselves that question because it's easier to scold men than to address issues which would require them to take on someone with actual political power.
Look, when a man hits puberty, he starts getting horny. He can hold off doing anything about that for a little while, because he's young, easily indoctrinated, and he's still figuring it all out anyway. But pretty soon, he's going to be driven to do something about that, and not all the lectures about sin that you can muster are going to stop him.
So why are men turning to pornography? Because sex with a preferable partner is unavailable to them. Duh.
Conservatives uttered not a peep when boomers fucked the economy so no one could afford to buy a home, or raise children, until their late twenties or early thirties.
Conservatives uttered not a peep when women wanted to leave the home and compete in the workforce, delaying marriage to build their careers.
Conservatives uttered not a peep when women wanted to stop cooking food, and remained silent when the stores filled with pre-packaged factory slop made from processed corn and soybeans, and packed with sugar, causing an obesity epidemic.
Conservatives actively opposed availability of contraceptives at every opportunity, and refused to compromise at all on abortion.
Conservatives sat idly by while feminists took over the culture and taught women to hold men in contempt.
And on and on it went, until now, we're reduced to landscape where only the top 5% of women are as attractive as the average woman of 50 years ago, and only the top 5% of men are desired, admired, or respected by women at all, and things have gotten so bad that young men will pay for naked pictures of attractive women because that is the closest they can get to the real thing, and conservatives' solution is... scold young men some more? Ban porn?
Great.
<Mod redacted>
Because attacking the supply side worked sooooo well with drugs, didn't it?
Conservatives are so goddamn dumb that they spent decade after decade fighting a "war on drugs" that they could never win, while ignoring the leftists quietly gutting the economy and fucking up everyone's quality of life.
Thereby ensuring an ever-increasing supply of people so frustrated and miserable that porn and fentanyl sounded like an improvement over their daily lives.
Conservatives, please have this tattooed on your foreheads, backwards, so you can read it every morning in the mirror:
Demand creates supply. Supply does not create demand.
If you want to get rid of something, you must reduce the demand for it.
If you want to get rid of the demand for something unhealthy, you must supply sufficient quantities of a superior alternative which is healthy.
A healthy society must have a healthy and available outlet for all human appetites, or it will cease to be a healthy society.
I swear, if you guys had spent half the energy fighting income taxes, socialism, feminism, government entitlements, and the erosion of the American quality of life that you spent on porn, abortion, and men in dresses pretending to be women, then you would have a lot less to cry about right now.
But you didn't wanna upset women or boomers, and you didn't want to cut federal spending, and you certainly didn't want to confront the crass material appetites of human nature instead of retreating and burying your nose in a bible instead.
So now you are the Stupid Party. Which still makes you superior to the Evil Party, for all the good that does us. But every two years, I'm still left with the unexciting choice between Stupid Party and Delusional Party, and things aren't getting any better.
You're nice guys, you really are. Your hearts are in the right place.
I just wish your brains were in the right place, too.
<Mod redacted>
Okay, as an anarchocapitalist, I consider conservatives to be allies on most political issues. Also, most of my personal friends come from their ranks, and their own lives are much better sorted out than most lefties. They're usually decent people.
But must they be so goddamned dumb?
Never ascribe to a conspiracy that which can be adequately explained by unplanned financial self-interest.
Porn is not a Jewish conspiracy to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids, okay?
It's a market correction for the gap between the male demand for sexual release, and the female supply of desirable and willing partners. You know, a market correction? That thing that happens in the free market? You remember the free market, right?
It's that thing conservatives praise occasionally, but immediately turn against every time it points out a gap between their ideals and the reality on the ground.People are just making money selling porn to horny men. That's all it is.
But what conservatives are never, never asking themselves is, why are there so many horny men around? Why is there such a demand for porn, when it's transparently obvious that no man in the world prefers porn to an attractive and enthusiastic female partner (or two)?
No, they never ask themselves that question because it's easier to scold men than to address issues which would require them to take on someone with actual political power.
Look, when a man hits puberty, he starts getting horny. He can hold off doing anything about that for a little while, because he's young, easily indoctrinated, and he's still figuring it all out anyway. But pretty soon, he's going to be driven to do something about that, and not all the lectures about sin that you can muster are going to stop him.
So why are men turning to pornography? Because sex with a preferable partner is unavailable to them. Duh.
Conservatives uttered not a peep when boomers fucked the economy so no one could afford to buy a home, or raise children, until their late twenties or early thirties.
Conservatives uttered not a peep when women wanted to leave the home and compete in the workforce, delaying marriage to build their careers.
Conservatives uttered not a peep when women wanted to stop cooking food, and remained silent when the stores filled with pre-packaged factory slop made from processed corn and soybeans, and packed with sugar, causing an obesity epidemic.
Conservatives actively opposed availability of contraceptives at every opportunity, and refused to compromise at all on abortion.
Conservatives sat idly by while feminists took over the culture and taught women to hold men in contempt.
And on and on it went, until now, we're reduced to landscape where only the top 5% of women are as attractive as the average woman of 50 years ago, and only the top 5% of men are desired, admired, or respected by women at all, and things have gotten so bad that young men will pay for naked pictures of attractive women because that is the closest they can get to the real thing, and conservatives' solution is... scold young men some more? Ban porn?
Great.
<Mod redacted>
Because attacking the supply side worked sooooo well with drugs, didn't it?
Conservatives are so goddamn dumb that they spent decade after decade fighting a "war on drugs" that they could never win, while ignoring the leftists quietly gutting the economy and fucking up everyone's quality of life.
Thereby ensuring an ever-increasing supply of people so frustrated and miserable that porn and fentanyl sounded like an improvement over their daily lives.
Conservatives, please have this tattooed on your foreheads, backwards, so you can read it every morning in the mirror:
Demand creates supply. Supply does not create demand.
If you want to get rid of something, you must reduce the demand for it.
If you want to get rid of the demand for something unhealthy, you must supply sufficient quantities of a superior alternative which is healthy.
A healthy society must have a healthy and available outlet for all human appetites, or it will cease to be a healthy society.
I swear, if you guys had spent half the energy fighting income taxes, socialism, feminism, government entitlements, and the erosion of the American quality of life that you spent on porn, abortion, and men in dresses pretending to be women, then you would have a lot less to cry about right now.
But you didn't wanna upset women or boomers, and you didn't want to cut federal spending, and you certainly didn't want to confront the crass material appetites of human nature instead of retreating and burying your nose in a bible instead.
So now you are the Stupid Party. Which still makes you superior to the Evil Party, for all the good that does us. But every two years, I'm still left with the unexciting choice between Stupid Party and Delusional Party, and things aren't getting any better.
You're nice guys, you really are. Your hearts are in the right place.
I just wish your brains were in the right place, too.
Last edited by a moderator:
I am confused how you could read through this entire thread and come to this conclusion. I would like to hear your scriptural and logical arguments to compare this to what Joseph ran from (physical) please. Also, which sin is it directly associated with? Is a man who watches a virgin then obligated to marry her according to exodus 22:6? And is the man who watches a married woman coveting her even if he has no intention to take her from her husband or use her physically? I do not hold a position of supporting pornography, Neither am I attempting to single you out; I just personally feel unsatisfied with how this thread fleshed out, through 15 pages. And feel just as confused as before I read it, on what positions there are against porn and what scripture is used, and how this affects practicality and real life, along with differences in men and women watching and what line defines sin. Similarly, I would like to hear anyone’s views on when physical interactions become sin, showing? (And what parts) touching (and what parts) actually p in v ? Etc, if you have more threads for me to read please link them. I don’t want to have no answer to these things for myself and others in my life.
Can I add to this? What constitutes as porn? What's the scriptural definition?
All I can do is give my best shot from my reading and study so far. Let’s not ask what it porn (people have different definitions) let’s ask what is fornication (sexual immorality). We know obviously anyone watching (in person or on a screen) a naked person/people is not physically touching them, therefore the only argument we can make against such a practice is the *heart issue*. The most applicable verse is about not lusting after a woman. This word lusting is a reference to coveting in the 10 commandments, which is the desire to unlawfully use something not rightfully owned/accessed by yourself. We must first make sure we don’t equate desire with that sense of lust, since I can see my neighbor’s car, then think it’s cool, then wish I could have a car like that, then imagine myself driving it as the owner, then imagine myself physically taking the car for a spin without asking the owner or buying the car, then I could actually steal the car and drive it. At which point was that sin? Obviously when I first desired to use the car in real life unlawfully (which is coveting). My imagination of driving it as the owner poses no problem, since whatever is true in imagination is true in the imagination; and whatever is true in real life is true in real life. I know women are much more valuable than cars so if you’d please excuse my comparison, I think we can apply this to women. When does this scenario become sin/lust/coveting, when a man sees a naked married woman? When he think she’s beautiful? When he sees her committing sexual acts? When he enjoys seeing her in such ways? When he desires to use her physically while she is still married to another man? When he actually uses her physically while she is married to another man? I’ve got to say the sin happened when he desired in his heart to have sex with her. This is the coveting problem. If the desire or the looking was a problem, how could a man ever buy a house or land from another man? He first has to look at the house, then determine he likes the house, then desire to live in the house, then be willing to (lawfully) buy the house, then actually buy the house with the consent of the owner, then actually start living in the house. With the logic used towards porn applied here, all of us sin in the process of buying a house!!!! Now obviously there are a couple caveats, the owner of a car could let you take it for a spin without buying it (this is not the case with a wife, that would be adultery) and no man should be divorcing his wife just because another man wants to have her (or offers money lol). But the sentiment and core logic remains. It is entirely (and easily!) possible to look at a naked women, and find pleasure in that sight, and decide that you will not attempt to have in person relations with her unless they are lawful (she’s unmarried, divorced, or widowed and you're going to marry her). But the seeing, the acknowledgement of her beauty, the wish to be with her if she was lawfully available (or someone who looks like her/acts like her), or the masturbation to those images or thoughts, how can we scripturally condemn? Please reply with any opposing arguments, and scripture, I humbly present this for you all to ponder.
Furthermore, I propose that Jesus was not raising the bar, rather explaining to people that you can covet without committing adultery, this heart issue command has been the same since Moses! Same when Jesus saidAll I can do is give my best shot from my reading and study so far. Let’s not ask what it porn (people have different definitions) let’s ask what is fornication (sexual immorality). We know obviously anyone watching (in person or on a screen) a naked person/people is not physically touching them, therefore the only argument we can make against such a practice is the *heart issue*. The most applicable verse is about not lusting after a woman. This word lusting is a reference to coveting in the 10 commandments, which is the desire to unlawfully use something not rightfully owned/accessed by yourself. We must first make sure we don’t equate desire with that sense of lust, since I can see my neighbor’s car, then think it’s cool, then wish I could have a car like that, then imagine myself driving it as the owner, then imagine myself physically taking the car for a spin without asking the owner or buying the car, then I could actually steal the car and drive it. At which point was that sin? Obviously when I first desired to use the car in real life unlawfully (which is coveting). My imagination of driving it as the owner poses no problem, since whatever is true in imagination is true in the imagination; and whatever is true in real life is true in real life. I know women are much more valuable than cars so if you’d please excuse my comparison, I think we can apply this to women. When does this scenario become sin/lust/coveting, when a man sees a naked married woman? When he think she’s beautiful? When he sees her committing sexual acts? When he enjoys seeing her in such ways? When he desires to use her physically while she is still married to another man? When he actually uses her physically while she is married to another man? I’ve got to say the sin happened when he desired in his heart to have sex with her. This is the coveting problem. If the desire or the looking was a problem, how could a man ever buy a house or land from another man? He first has to look at the house, then determine he likes the house, then desire to live in the house, then be willing to (lawfully) buy the house, then actually buy the house with the consent of the owner, then actually start living in the house. With the logic used towards porn applied here, all of us sin in the process of buying a house!!!! Now obviously there are a couple caveats, the owner of a car could let you take it for a spin without buying it (this is not the case with a wife, that would be adultery) and no man should be divorcing his wife just because another man wants to have her (or offers money lol). But the sentiment and core logic remains. It is entirely (and easily!) possible to look at a naked women, and find pleasure in that sight, and decide that you will not attempt to have in person relations with her unless they are lawful (she’s unmarried, divorced, or widowed and you're going to marry her). But the seeing, the acknowledgement of her beauty, the wish to be with her if she was lawfully available (or someone who looks like her/acts like her), or the masturbation to those images or thoughts, how can we scripturally condemn? Please reply with any opposing arguments, and scripture, I humbly present this for you all to ponder.
Matthew 5:48 (KJV)
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
this is not raising the bar, but the logical result of Jesus expecting us to (attempt to) obey the whole law! I am not saying that porn is the best use of anyone’s time, can’t addiction to even such as food cause problems! But all of you who condemn actions without biblical support; do BETTER!. Provide a sound argument, otherwise make your personal objections and recommendations known to not be binding in this gray area.
Last post until I get replies, but I do have an objection to some forms of porn, we can’t watch and therefore support sin, we inherently shouldn’t be watching fornication, adultery, beastiality, male homosexuality, orgies, incest, rape, abuse, etc!Furthermore, I propose that Jesus was not raising the bar, rather explaining to people that you can covet without committing adultery, this heart issue command has been the same since Moses! Same when Jesus said
Matthew 5:48 (KJV)
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
this is not raising the bar, but the logical result of Jesus expecting us to (attempt to) obey the whole law! I am not saying that porn is the best use of anyone’s time, can’t addiction to even such as food cause problems! But all of you who condemn actions without biblical support; do BETTER!. Provide a sound argument, otherwise make your personal objections and recommendations known to not be binding in this gray area.
Agree, they are attempting to exploit the market with a second-rate non physical supply. I do say though, food has become the master of many men, food isn’t evil, let’s not use non sequitur logic.
Ah, but what kind of food? Food that has been loaded up with chemicals, hormones, sugars, and poisons to make it addictive and make our men sick, fat, and crazy?
Yeah, that kind of food is evil.
when someone tells you about the next great "superfood" be it a banana or a steak.... no. It's not a superfood. It's just food.
McDonald's isn't food. It's a poisonous and addictive pseudo-satisfier.
Not to sidebar in this super focused forum which never strays from the point but no....steak or ruminate meats generally really is super food. The original and the best.
Can attest and affirm
Yup
Anything that nutritious and delicious that has been made from weeds is a superfood.
Fine, draw the line wherever you feel that you should. Every man needs to find his own balance.
Just don’t expect your balance to be everyone else’s balance.
Correct.
Though would pick gnits on the notion of vegetables being nutritious with respect the bioavailiability of macros or micros as well as all the oxalates and the nifty bonus of pesticides and herbicides...which is just a delightful bonus
Your statement was steaks or ruminant meats.