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How should I go about this?

I know this is tangent to the OP but if it is true that many men are converting to Islam, why would that be? Perhaps the (collective)man's masculinity is being affirmed in Islam while at the same time Christianity's militant feminism is rising. Most men work well with rules and boundaries while women work well with relationships and bonding. Islam is very rule-centered and modern Christianity is relationship centered. Are we demanding men to be effeminate(with an overemphasis on "Bride-of-Christ" speak) while raising women to be leaders in churches and parachurch organizations, e.g. "Pastor Mary and Pastor Martha"(fictitious examples)?
Maddog
 
I can't say for certain Maddog but I am not certain that it is Christianity which as changed. Wasn't Christianity considered a religion of women and slaves back in Roman times? Then Rome became Christian and all the Roman patriarchal structures were integrated into the early Church. Now that those connections are long gone and all that is left is the religion, it has gone back into the hands of the women?

When I was talking about all the men converting, that does not mean that women haven't been, loads of women have converted from Christianity to Islam too, strangely enough it is a very popular religion with women, I cant think why. I seem to hear more about women converting independently and men converting for marriage but I could be wrong in that but still, more women are converting than men, perhaps women like rules also?

B
 
Maddog said:
Christianity's militant feminism

You mean anti-Christ militant feminism, not Christian feminism correct?

By the way.... anti-Christ Feminists at Churches teach self professed "Christian" attendees to reject and dismiss the GENUINE Jesus, it is only natural for anti-Christs who profess to be Christians to become Muslims, Jews, Hinduists, Buddhists, or any other religion so long as they reject the GENUINE Jesus and retain their core ant-Christ value, even if it means accepting another counterfeit Jesus called "Jesus" who is not the genuine Jesus.
 
Isabella said:
I can't say for certain Maddog but I am not certain that it is Christianity which as changed. Wasn't Christianity considered a religion of women and slaves back in Roman times? Then Rome became Christian and all the Roman patriarchal structures were integrated into the early Church. Now that those connections are long gone and all that is left is the religion, it has gone back into the hands of the women?

When I was talking about all the men converting, that does not mean that women haven't been, loads of women have converted from Christianity to Islam too, strangely enough it is a very popular religion with women, I cant think why. I seem to hear more about women converting independently and men converting for marriage but I could be wrong in that but still, more women are converting than men, perhaps women like rules also?

B

I have a guess

I ask how come women are so concerned about spending so much on a wedding that lasts a single day, even though so many divorces happen because of money.

A.) They though through it intellectually and made a decision to obey God
B.) Women like to follow cultural tradition and emotions even if it is.......

Which is more important in the wedding
A.) Loving your spouse
B.) Getting in fights or not showing up out of fear the color scheme is imperfect.

How come women like the Paganistic portions of cultural Christmas and Easter so much?

A.) They though through it intellectually and made a decision to obey God
B.) Women like to follow cultural tradition and emotions even if it is....... especially if the paganism has pretty and cute decorations, designs, etc.

Which is more emotionally appealing?
A.) Christianity
B.) The religion that news shows......
 
Some people claim they used to be born again/born from above and then became Atheists.

They are saying the KNEW God existed, but now they do not believe God ever existed but how can a sane person not believe in something they insist that they KNEW existed?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TErJb5gSwUw

Is it reasonable for someone to have known Jesus was eternally God (to be a Christian) and then became someone who professes they do not believe Jesus was eternally God (a Muslim)?

This person is essentially saying that they knew Jesus was eternally God but they profess to believe that for all eternity Jesus never was God.

Unless they admit that they were lying or.... it is kind of like they are saying they knew A was eternally not true and they knew A was eternally true.
 
Isabella wrote:
I can't say for certain Maddog but I am not certain that it is Christianity which as changed. Wasn't Christianity considered a religion of women and slaves back in Roman times? Then Rome became Christian and all the Roman patriarchal structures were integrated into the early Church. Now that those connections are long gone and all that is left is the religion, it has gone back into the hands of the women?

First, Rome did not become Christian. Rome adopted some of the veneer of Christianity, but kept all the pagan ideas like monogamy as the only allowable form of marriage, the various holidays such as Saturnalia (which became Christmas) and Ishtar (which became Easter), and asceticism, a practice which had started creeping into and corrupting Christianity even before Constantine.

Second, Rome was not really patriarchal. At least, not the way the Bible teaches patriarchy. Rome and Greece were the only two ancient major cultures to practice socially-imposed monogamy as the only allowable form of marriage, and that un-Biblical marriage custom, which, like asceticism, grew out of the Greek worship of the male form (think "Olympic games"), was adopted by the Roman church and labeled as "Christian" without any Scriptural justification whatsoever - in fact, in direct opposition to what the Bible teaches, as is shown in literally hundreds of posts by real Bible scholars on this forum.

Roman culture was extremely repressive, harsh, and barbaric. Who was it who "perfected" the art of torturing people to death? Medical doctors who have studied crucifixion say that it is the most painful way to kill a person that has ever been devised. Human life, especially the lives of slaves, women, and children, was not considered to be worth anything.

But true Christianity values all human life, not just the lives of the elite and powerful. So, naturally, women and slaves would be attracted to such teaching more so than those who have power, such as the Jewish religious leaders and the Roman aristocrats of Jesus' day. In fact, several places in the Gospels tell us that many women followed Jesus, and that it was the women, not the male disciples (other than John), who were present at the Crucifixion. Most of Jesus' male followers were hiding in fear following the arrest of Jesus.

IMHO, and I am speaking from bitter experience here, those who apparently become born-again Christians but later turn their backs on Christ, have an improper understanding of what it means to be a Christian. That is initially the fault of the Church, teaching false doctrine such as that which I grew up under. (Was I truly born again? I believe so, but did not know what it really meant to be a Christian until 30 years later, after spending nearly 20 of those years trying to run from God.)

Of course, the Bible says that no man is without excuse, and so those of us who were taught false doctrine absolutely must study the Bible for ourselves and discover God's Truth, as I did after becoming an adult. (And after I quit trying to run from God.) And those who may have been fortunate enough to have been taught true Christianity by whatever church they were part of must also study God's Word to confirm that they really were taught Truth.

So, Isabella, you are correct to say that Christianity has not changed. What has changed is that which is falsely called Christianity. God has always had at least a remnant of His people who know, believe, and live by His Truth regardless of the cost, and regardless of what false Christians might teach as being "christian."

Being a true Christian is not for the faint of heart. It will cost you something. Many of us on this forum have paid a price because we believe what the Bible teaches about marriage and will not compromise what we know to be Biblical Truth.
 
DiscussingTheTopic said:
Which is more emotionally appealing?
A.) Christianity
B.) The religion that news shows......

I am sorry but I haven't a clue how to answer that question, I would think what would be more appealing to anyone would be different depending on who they are.....

I don't understand your point sorry.

B
 
PolyDoc said:
First, Rome did not become Christian. Rome adopted some of the veneer of Christianity, but kept all the pagan ideas like monogamy as the only allowable form of marriage, the various holidays such as Saturnalia (which became Christmas) and Ishtar (which became Easter), and asceticism, a practice which had started creeping into and corrupting Christianity even before Constantine.

I daresay that might be true, but not relevant to my point.

Second, Rome was not really patriarchal. At least, not the way the Bible teaches patriarchy.

Of course not, it was a Pagan culture, so it wouldn't be Biblical, I never referred to Biblical patriarchy either.

<snipped loads of irrelevant bits>

So, Isabella, you are correct to say that Christianity has not changed.

Ok, cool.

B
 
Isabella said:
DiscussingTheTopic said:
Which is more emotionally appealing?
A.) Christianity
B.) The religion that news shows......

I am sorry but I haven't a clue how to answer that question, I would think what would be more appealing to anyone would be different depending on who they are.....

I don't understand your point sorry.

B

My point is that Western news is designed to make Islam more emotionally appealing then Christianity.

When a choice between obeying the truth and obeying emotions is required which are most women going to go for, the truth or emotions?

Isabella said:
I am sorry but I haven't a clue how to answer that question, I would think what would be more appealing to anyone would be different depending on who they are.....
Although there is a variety in emotional appeal if there were two identical twin men raised in a similar environment and an experiment was done in which one was covered in literal garbage that was rotten smelling and the other was not and they went around asking women on dates, do you think that it would be difficult to tell which man was liked by women more on an emotional basis for the majority of women asked? Do you think such an experiment would even need to be done or do people already know women generally prefer men not to be covered in stinking rotten garbage smell?
 
DiscussingTheTopic said:
My point is that Western news is designed to make Islam more emotionally appealing then Christianity.

When a choice between obeying the truth and obeying emotions is required which are most women going to go for, the truth or emotions?

Are we watching the same news story? Muslims are usually the boogeymen of the news.

Honour killings, forced marriage, women denied medical treatment under the taliban, beating women for not wearing a veil in Iran, kidnapping children from their Western Mothers and taking them to the middle east. I am still failing to see any appeal for women at all.

I also find it quite offensive of you to infer that women will deny the sky is blue because someone sympathetic said it is green. You might say that they were not very devout Christians to begin with but don't dismiss the sincerity of their conversions as if women are less capable of being authentic in their faith.

B
 
Isabella said:
DiscussingTheTopic said:
My point is that Western news is designed to make Islam more emotionally appealing then Christianity.

When a choice between obeying the truth and obeying emotions is required which are most women going to go for, the truth or emotions?

Are we watching the same news story? Muslims are usually the boogeymen of the news.

Honour killings, forced marriage, women denied medical treatment under the taliban, beating women for not wearing a veil in Iran, kidnapping children from their Western Mothers and taking them to the middle east. I am still failing to see any appeal for women at all.

I also find it quite offensive of you to infer that women will deny the sky is blue because someone sympathetic said it is green. You might say that they were not very devout Christians to begin with but don't dismiss the sincerity of their conversions as if women are less capable of being authentic in their faith.

B

Did I say most men are not more likely to make a decision on an emotional basis than a basis of truth?

People believe in global warming caused by carbon dioxide emissions, single cell to man evolution and numerous other "scientific facts" for emotional reasons and or for blind faith in falsified "facts" presented by authority figures who they strongly FEEL they can trust without asking how they came to the conclusions of imaginary skeletons of missing links from a single pigs tooth....

As of the day I wrote this post (March 21, 2011),there is no intellectual reason (which I remember) that ANY Muslim has ever presented to me (in my entire lifetime up to this point) to believe Islam (instead of Christianity) that I would consider valid considering a reasonable interpretation of the historical evidence available to me. Nor did they fill in missing historical evidence that I am unaware of and provide a valid interpretation of that evidence to provide a reason to believe in Islam instead of Christianity.

So if the women/men were researching with the available historical evidence that I know of, and they came to become professing Muslims (instead of Christians)..... I have reason to doubt that it was on an intellectual basis on account of the lack of valid intellectual arguments for the version of Islam they have presented to me and the refutation of Islam by what I consider to be a valid interpretation of the evidence that I know to be available. I could understand them becoming a professed Muslim for intellectual reasons on account of lack of research or inability to access historical resources in a censoring country or due to other resource limiting factors however.

Their ideas about Jesus are self-refuting given a dose of reality, but in some Muslim countries historical resources are limited (sometimes by choice ;) and sometimes by poverty preventing access.)
 
DiscussingTheTopic said:
When a choice between obeying the truth and obeying emotions is required which are most women going to go for, the truth or emotions?


Did I say most men are not more likely to make a decision on an emotional basis than a basis of truth?

Please note what you wrote above, you singled women out specifically.

People believe in global warming caused by carbon dioxide emissions, single cell to man evolution and numerous other "scientific facts" for emotional reasons and or for blind faith in falsified "facts" presented by authority figures who they strongly FEEL they can trust without asking how they came to the conclusions of imaginary skeletons of missing links from a single pigs tooth....

Not only is that a completely made up assumption, please note, there is no proof that the world was created by a giant spaghetti monster either....people don't NEED facts, to believe, still this has nothing to do with Islam. Is this just a way of avoiding answering the questions put to you in my last post?

As of the day I wrote this post (March 21, 2011),there is no intellectual reason (which I remember) that ANY Muslim has ever presented to me (in my entire lifetime up to this point) to believe Islam (instead of Christianity) that I would consider valid considering a reasonable interpretation of the historical evidence available to me. Nor did they fill in missing historical evidence that I am unaware of and provide a valid interpretation of that evidence to provide a reason to believe in Islam instead of Christianity.

I am trying to see how this is pertinent to your previous point DTT.

So if the women/men were researching with the available historical evidence that I know of, and they came to become professing Muslims (instead of Christians)..... I have reason to doubt that it was on an intellectual basis

So,with your (vast, I am sure) knowledge of Islam and Muslims in general you can state, without doubt that all conversions to Islam have been done for purely emotional reasons, devoid of any intellectual study of any sort? So all those converts are just a sucker for a good honour killer story or something? Perhaps the idea of women being stoned for adultery in a certain Muslim country was nothing more than a clever advertisement for Islam for Western Women?

Hearing about how the Taliban denied dying women medical treatment sure made me want to don a hijab I can tell you!!!! :roll:

Their ideas about Jesus are self-refuting given a dose of reality, but in some Muslim countries historical resources are limited (sometimes by choice ;) and sometimes by poverty preventing access.)

I guess all those Muslims who kept all that medical and scientific knowledge during the dark ages (Ibn Sina, Mohammed Ibn Zakariya Al-Razi, Alazan etc) might disagree with you there.

DTT, there is circular logic and there is zero logic, you are quickly falling into the latter.

B
 
So if Muslims choose to become Muslims instead of Christian because of intellectual reasons? How come ZERO Muslims have explained to me a decent intellectual reason to believe Islam instead of Christianity when one considers history? If I am wrong can you explain to me why I should believe Islam instead of Christianity for intellectual reasons?
 
DiscussingTheTopic said:
So if Muslims choose to become Muslims instead of Christian because of intellectual reasons? How come ZERO Muslims have explained to me a decent intellectual reason to believe Islam instead of Christianity when one considers history? If I am wrong can you explain to me why I should believe Islam instead of Christianity for intellectual reasons?

Perhaps you might try talking to other Muslims.....

B
 
DiscussingTheTopic said:
Isabella said:
Perhaps you might try talking to other Muslims.....
B

That is why I said something to the extent of based on the knowledge I know instead of based on all knowledge.

Exactly.
 
Isabella said:
DiscussingTheTopic said:
Isabella said:
Perhaps you might try talking to other Muslims.....
B

That is why I said something to the extent of based on the knowledge I know instead of based on all knowledge.

Exactly.

A reasonable interpretation of certain historical evidence supports the idea that Jesus was executed.

Where are Muslim(s) who believe Islam instead of Christianity for good intellectual reasons while having knowledge of that evidence.

Can you please refer me to such (a) Muslim(s) so I can talk to them/him/her?
 
DiscussingTheTopic said:

A reasonable interpretation of certain historical evidence
supports the idea that Jesus was executed.

Perhaps they, like man other people on this earth, don't feel this evidence is "reasonable"?

Where are Muslim(s) who believe Islam instead of Christianity for good intellectual reasons while having knowledge of that evidence.

Again, what if their ideas of reasonable interpretation are more stringent than yours?

Can you please refer me to such (a) Muslim(s) so I can talk to them/him/her?

I am not a Muslim DTT so I have just as much access to Islam as you do, if you want to talk to proper Muslim with knowledge about the fundamentals of the faith I would suggest a mosque, rather than talking to random teenage Muslims on Teen Islam Chat forums who just might be taking a break from playing Grand Theft Auto II, to inform you about the tenets of their faith as they know it......

Remember, most people, including yourself, on this forum are of the view that most people calling themselves Christian know little about the Bible, why not show Muslims the same respect and talk to Muslims that can seriously answer your questions?

A good start might be just gooling and reading what comes up....this was the first thing I found

http://www.sultan.org/articles/Jesus.html
Good Luck!!

B
 
May I interject a related thought into this thread? The conversion of many men and women in the west to Islam troubles me on two points.
1. Islam is attractive to many around the world because (assuming) Muslims take their faith seriously (right or wrong) and are willing to go all the way in dedication to its tenets.
2. Most Christians in the west are so lukewarm in their faith and seem to avoid any committment to God that they are not forced into. Where are the Christians that once turned the world upside down? The God of the Bible, of Heaven has not changed, but we who profess to be His have changed. We are not loyal to and loving the God of our salvation. I do not fear Islam, I fear apathetic, weak Christianity. I want to close with this quote from Joshua.
Joshua 24:14-15
Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD. And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
 
John Whitten said:
1. Islam is attractive to many around the world because (assuming) Muslims take their faith seriously (right or wrong) and are willing to go all the way in dedication to its tenets.
2. Most Christians in the west are so lukewarm in their faith and seem to avoid any committment to God that they are not forced into. Where are the Christians that once turned the world upside down? The God of the Bible, of Heaven has not changed, but we who profess to be His have changed. We are not loyal to and loving the God of our salvation. I do not fear Islam, I fear apathetic, weak Christianity.
John, you hit the nail right on the head. The love of many has grown cold, as predicted by Jesus:
Matthew 24:12 NKJV And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
The average "Christian" in the pew on Sunday morning has no idea at all whether or not the Pastor, Sunday School teachers, and other leaders are really preaching and teaching truth, because that average "Christian" has much more important things to do other than study the Bible for himself. Things like watching the latest anti-Christ offering from Hollywood, or some meaningless sports event. Or helping to spread the latest rumors about one of those very few real Christians.

Why do those lukewarm, apathetic, weak "Christians" even bother pretending to be Christians?

As a Pastor, I'd rather have a handful of real, dedicated, Bible-believing and -studying Christians than a whole big building full of those average "Christians." Jesus turned the known world upside-down in a generation, starting with only 11 of those dedicated types. There's no reason our generation could not turn our world upside-down, if we get with His program instead of ours.
 
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