The answers will vary widely.
Some are for specific people and don’t belong in public.
Most churches don’t allow them, and Yah is a gentleman.
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False Prophets
- Thread starter MarvelousMarvin
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Some are for specific people and don’t belong in public.
Most churches don’t allow them, and Yah is a gentleman.
How have I ended up the centre of drama and debate again?
I swear guys, I'm pretty harmless.
You can move on with your life now.
I swear guys, I'm pretty harmless.
You can move on with your life now.
Steve's Regret may be catching...
But I can't help but think part of the problem with a thread like this is the "Standard Xtian Misunderstanding of Real Prophecy."
"Predicting the future" is an 'improper focus." The "message of the Real Prophet" is ALWAYS, one way or t'other...
...t'shuvah!
And the problem with translating that Hebrew word as "repent!" is that most people don't understand what the English word means either:
"TURN!" Or, more simply, "Turn around!" If you're going the wrong way, stop, return...to YHVH.
The essence of 'false prophecy' is NOT to just get it "wrong". Or even, "see visions of peace, when there is no peace." But things LIKE, "lying to My people who listen to lies." (Ezek. 13)
It's ultimately, and pretty much always, about idolatry. But it's pretty clear, that those THEN, and still now, who don't recognize what that means, and Who it is that we serve, confuse ritual with obedience, especially when they don't know the source.
Which are trivial compared to His ANGER at idolatry, and "rigid guidelines" about How He chooses to be worshiped, and what He calls "abomination".
And that's why EVERY prophet of YHVH taught t'shuva.
It means return, to His Word, His moedim, His Sabbaths, His commandments, and, yes, even what He said is "food," and what isn't. But only if you want His blessings, obviously.
This discussion reminds me of something I have heard WAY too often from what I sometimes call "pagan xtianity" --
"I don't need to study His torah, I am guided by the holy spirit. And he tells me what matters, what doesn't."
(I have frequently remarked, "Well, I don't doubt those people are hearing from a spirit. But it sure as hell ain't holy.")
Gee, that sounds a bit like the warning I see from Ezekiel 14 on "false prophecy."
Says Yahuah through His prophet:
"...these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity [torah-less-ness] before their face: should I be enquired of at all by them?
Thus He says,
"Everyone...who sets up his idols in his heart, and puts before him what causes him to stumble into iniquity, and then comes to the prophet,
I will answer him who comes,
"according to the multitude of his idols..,"
because they are estranged from Me by them.
So what's the bottom line? Same as always (Ezekiel 14:6)
"Thus says Yahuah Elohekah, TURN! [root: shuv] -
turn away from your idols, and turn away from all your abominations..."
That is what separates the false prophets from His.
PS> For the real shock, read the next few verses...
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Then I will offer the most popular advice Don’t try this at home.
You’re not wrong. I think what is being questioned was if @FollowingHim2 wasn’t really just having a conversation about dreams she had that felt significant but didn’t fit into any definite category.
She was among friends and the topic came up. Maybe it wasn’t a fully formed theological statement but it wasn’t really meant to be.
Wait, was she in the assembly?
Too much thread crossover happening! I'm out!
I don’t feel very assembled.
Seriously, I'd like to know the answer to that question too. My wife is being criticised, and I'd like to jump to her defence (or alternatively jump to her punishment if she deserved it of courseThat right there was her sharing a dream that she had that was strange and she saw as symbolic of the loss of freedom. Notice she did not say it was from God or that her thoughts on it's symbolism was an interpretation from God.
@Asforme&myhouse can you show me in these quotes where the bad lady hurt you?
) - but I too can't understand what, precisely, she is being accused of doing wrong! All she said was that things in dreams may be symbolic rather than literal, and gave an example from a dream she had. Dreams are often symbolic rather than literal, and secular psychologists use that fact extensively. This is purely a factual statement. What is the fault in pointing out a simple fact?Incorrect. I don’t see God having this problem with anyone who prophesied in Scripture. God was always able to convey what he wanted clearly. In Scripture the veracity of the prophecy is not dependent on the one who prophesies. God spoke clearly through a donkey, even the donkey’s inability to speak did not effect God’s ability to speak through the donkey.
The idea that this is coming from God is implied. If she doesn’t think it’s from God, where does she think the information is coming from and why is she interpreting it? If she is not presenting this as something that is coming from God, then why does it have any relevancy as an example in her post about people getting prophecy wrong?
(Side note) Nick, you said “That right there was her sharing a dream that she had that was strange and she saw as symbolic of the loss of freedom. Notice she did not say it was from God or that her thoughts on it's symbolism was an interpretation from God.”
Interpreting symbolic dreams that one does not believe are from God would be a form of divination, so I hope she at least believes it’s from God, otherwise we have other problems.
(Side, side note) Does anyone here need to hear a prophetic dream to know that our liberty is circling the drain?
Nope the feels don’t enter into it. Show me that distinction in Scripture. Maybe it’s there, maybe it isn’t, but your feelings are not what determine that.
Ok? Weird distinction. Is that a Scriptural distinction? As far as I can tell, a liar is one who has told a lie and a prophet is one who has prophesied. Telling a dream or vision that is from God is prophesying. This distinction seems to me to be a way of shielding oneself from the full weight and responsibilities of being God’s mouth piece.
Right there @NickF, that’s where it hurts. I find your lack of discernment, disturbing
@Asforme&myhouse, I have some thoughts on what you just said, but to inform that first could you clarify please, in your opinion:
- Does God speak to people today (at all, outside scripture, any message he conveys to an individual person through any means and for whatever purpose)?
- Is every case of God speaking to people "prophecy"? Or is "prophecy" just a sub-category of the things God says to people?
- If "prophecy" is a sub-category, what defines something as "prophecy"?
- Does God speak to people today (at all, outside scripture, any message he conveys to an individual person through any means and for whatever purpose)?
- Is every case of God speaking to people "prophecy"? Or is "prophecy" just a sub-category of the things God says to people?
- If "prophecy" is a sub-category, what defines something as "prophecy"?
Your turn!
The woman who makes a claim about having dreams that are 100% from God tells us we can go on with our lives because she's "pretty harmless". Sad. (I did once have a little obsession with a Kiwi, but that is another story.)
She thinks this is about her, that she's the "centre of drama and debate"
If someone states they have contemporaneous dreams, some of which are 100% from God, I guarantee it is not some weird obsession that I simply ask you for more information about that.
FollowingHim: I disagree with the way your wife is characterizing those who have challenged a statement she made in this thread.
Can you quote this statement and explain? Because you and I are not seeing the same thing. I'm trying to understand where all this craziness is coming from.
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Maybe Nick guy should read the thread before providing his uniformed (I might add hasty and poorly thought out) postings.
"dreams that I am 100% sure are from God" FollowingHim2
Honestly, appreciate the quality some are bringing to the conversation, but Nick, you are consistently low quality so I advise you to post less. I know that is unsolicited, but consider it offered in generosity, albeit exasperated generosity.
see post 35 and 96.
You can read exactly and literally what she said.
I am tiring of guiding you and tolerating your insults that have cropped up in other responses.
Why do you have such a chip on your shoulder? Did someone kick your puppy yesterday? Simple questions are interpreted as insults? I feel like I'm talking to a PMSing woman, or a two year old not a man. I've never met someone with such thin skin.
IF you're too triggered to answer simple questions and give any information, for your accusations please hit the ignore button so you don't have to read my so called insults.
This is truly hilarious! (Thank you for the belly laugh!)I expect people on this forum to give a reason for their claims. Asking for that reason should be expected. Stomping your feet and saying you're "guiding" me and I'm insulting you when asked for a quote for your nebulous claims is extremely childish. I'll remember for the future so I don't hurt your feelings with any questions.
Perhaps you are reading into my statement that you were uninformed. You do realize that is a statement of fact, not a character assasination or personal insult? If I'm ignorant or uninformed, that's not offensive, it's a fact or it's not. If I am, then I want to rectify that. I don't cry foul and cry about it.
I find it telling that you found it to be offensive that I said you were uninformed, you took great offense, and then proceeded to use that exact same statement to try and offend me right back. That is not a sign of a mature Christian, but a child. Go ahead and say offensive things about me, you aren't going to make me cry, I'll get an all day chuckle out of it while I tend to my homestead chores and business. I eat slander for breakfast and poop out giggles.
I meant no offense when I said you were uninformed because it looked that way. The adult thing to do would have been to tell me "Nah brah, I know what she said, here's the quote and I think it's wrong for (this reason)."
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I saw what you edited out.Why do you have such a chip on your shoulder? Did someone kick your puppy yesterday? Simple questions are interpreted as insults? I feel like I'm talking to a PMSing woman, or a two year old not a man. I've never met someone with such thin skin.
IF you're too triggered to answer simple questions and give any information, for your accusations please hit the ignore button so you don't have to read my so called insults.
I expect people on this forum to give a reason for their claims. Asking for that reason should be expected. Stomping your feet and saying you're "guiding" me and I'm insulting you when asked for a quote for your nebulous claims is extremely childish. I'll remember for the future so I don't hurt your feelings with any questions.
Perhaps you are reading into my statement that you were uninformed. You do realize that is a statement of fact, not a character assasination or personal insult? If I'm ignorant or uninformed, that's not offensive, it's a fact or it's not. If I am, then I want to rectify that. I don't cry foul and cry about it.
I find it telling that you found it to be offensive that I said you were uninformed, you took great offense, and then proceeded to use that exact same statement to try and offend me right back. That is not a sign of a mature Christian, but a child. Go ahead and say offensive things about me, you aren't going to make me cry, I'll get an all day chuckle out of it while I tend to my homestead chores and business. I eat slander for breakfast and poop out giggles.
I meant no offense when I said you were uninformed because it looked that way. The adult thing to do would have been to tell me "Nah brah, I know what she said, here's the quote and I think it's wrong for (this reason)."
You know as well.
I find it unfair that people can say things, and then go back and edit to cover their tracks.
Everything I have written in this thread is what I have written. I have not deleted or edited.
I was not aware of this "feature" apparently available to some but not others, but it discourages fair discourse.
Rather than making a safe space, I would request that admin restore past posts, prior to what was edited or deleted. And also consistently enforce a no-deleting and no-editing feature except for exceptional circumstances.
Revealing all the edit and delete history is honest and truthful.
Maybe Samuel can make a safe space for you