Question for you sire... . Do you believe that you ARE God Eternal?? And follow-up, Do you believe that you will EVER be God ETERNAL??
I ask because you seem to be claiming that you will be someday...
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1 Timothy 4 "some shall depart from the faith" "Forbidding to marry" Blasphemy!
- Thread starter Mr.M
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Question for you sire... . Do you believe that you ARE God Eternal?? And follow-up, Do you believe that you will EVER be God ETERNAL??
I ask because you seem to be claiming that you will be someday...
You exalt the law above Him. It was Yahuah who became flesh and dwelt among us as Yahushua. He told us its adultery to divorce and remarry or to marry her who is divorced. Why don't you believe the truth?
1 Corinthians 12
3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Ruach ha-Kodesh says, “Yahushua be cursed,” and no one can say, "Yahushua is Yahuah" except by the Ruach ha-Kodesh.
^ The Son is the Most High
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Matthew 19
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who [a]made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”
John 8
48 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”
49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me.
50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges.
51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”
52 Then the Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’
53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?”
54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is [a]your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
^ unbelieving jews pick up stones to kill The Son because he was claiming to be the Most High.
John 5
19 Then Yahushua answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.
20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel.
22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,
23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
36 But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.
37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.
39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
41 “I do not receive honor from men.
42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you.
43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.
45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust.
46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me.
John 10
30 I and My Father are one.”
If i let myself take pleasure in unrighteousness do you know how many wives i would have by now!? Many. The adulteresses who have a living husband are always the ones to address me as "sir" and submit to EVERYTHING. Its so obvious the devil tempts us with these adultresses but we must love Him and choose His will over ours. He will bring us wives and children on His time. The last girl i married had an adulteress mother and she chose her mother over Him when told she cant keep the company of an adulteress.
Matthew 10
37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.
Luke 17
32 Remember Lot's wife.
I am not a troll.
Oh brother...
John 14
9 Yahushua said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
No. Yahushua is speaking in this verse, not me.
John 10
30 I and My Father are one.
Naturally, But that is not the only place where he speaks of being one with his father.
Here he says it again..
Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Note that he is praying for us that we will also be one in him exactly as he is one with his father. If the oneness he has with his father is because he IS the father, then the oneness that we are to have would be declaring us to BE the father also. I do not believe that and I doubt you do either.
This is the proof text that the oneness that Yeshua has with his father is NOT singleness as of an entity but perfect unity. The same perfect unity that we will be able to achieve with him also one day.
Yeshua came in the AGENCY of his father. Doing the perfect will of his father. But, is not his father...
But you agree Romans 7:2-3, when understood in context, doesn't advocate for your belief(?)
When Jesus answered the question posed by the religious guys, He began by saying, “Have you not read..." (v:4). Notice please, He is appealing to what they knew from the Scriptures; to what stood as written. Please also notice there is nothing indicating that He was changing what these religious men knew and believed otherwise their testing (v:3) would have been successful in proving He taught contrary to the Scriptures. They were looking for excuses to get rid of Him and they would have one if He taught something other than the Scriptures; what stood written and sure.
In the beginning was the logos (communication) and the communicarion was with YHWH, and pertained to YHWH. The logos became flesh and lived among us.
Yeshua spoke only The Father's words and was accurate in representing Him to us....a walking talking prophet like unto Moses ....a second Adam.
We should neither justitfy the wicked or condemn the just. (Proverbs 17:15?) People who do either are both abomination to YHWH.
Yeshua spoke only The Father's words and was accurate in representing Him to us....a walking talking prophet like unto Moses ....a second Adam.
We should neither justitfy the wicked or condemn the just. (Proverbs 17:15?) People who do either are both abomination to YHWH.
Yahushua is Yahuah
1 Corinthians 12
3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Ruach ha-Kodesh says, “Yahushua be cursed,” and no one can say, "Yahushua is Yahuah" except by the Ruach ha-Kodesh.
^ The Son is the Most High
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Matthew 19
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who [a]made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”
John 8
48 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”
49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me.
50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges.
51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”
52 Then the Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’
53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?”
54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is [a]your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
^ unbelieving jews pick up stones to kill The Son because he was claiming to be the Most High.
John 5
19 Then Yahushua answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.
20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel.
22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,
23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
36 But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.
37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.
39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
41 “I do not receive honor from men.
42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you.
43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.
45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust.
46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me.
John 10
30 I and My Father are one.”
The Father is heaven, Yahushua is Yahuah but he became flesh and dwelt among us. The father remains in heaven. The Son came to dwell among us.
Romans 7
2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.
^ until husband dies, wife is bound by law to him. once he dies she is free from his law. I agree this verse doesn't explicitly say there are not other ways. But it also does NOT say that there are any other ways "in this verse."
So this fits with the analogy Paul is making. It doesn't say more and it doesn't say less. It illustrates the matter Paul is teaching.
Then we have verse 4; Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. The word, Therefore, is from Ὥστε; a consecutive conjunction, i. e. expressing consequence or result. The consequence or result of this analogy is not a new teaching about marriage and divorce. Cheers
Do you know the biblical definition of righteousness and darkness?
Righteousness:
Isaiah 51:7
Listen to me, you who know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear not the reproach of man, nor be dismayed at their revilings.
Darkness:
Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Deut 6:25
And if we are careful to obey all this law before the LORD our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness.”
2 John 3:4 - Sin is transgression of the torah. It’s repeated in the torah that it’s sin to add and take away from the perfect instructions, which obviously includes this portion:
Deut 24:1 KJV
When a man takes a wife and marries her, and it happens that she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some uncleanness in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, puts it in her hand, and sends her out of his house, 2when she has departed from his house, and goes and becomes another man’s wife, 3if the latter husband detests her and writes her a certificate of divorce, puts it in her hand, and sends her out of his house, or if the latter husband dies who took her as his wife, 4then her former husband who divorced her must not take her back to be his wife after she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the Lord, and you shall not bring sin on the land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance.
The real Messiah said he’s not changing the smallest iota. He said it’d be easier for heaven and earth to pass away. I trust him over a translator - and if you simply use online tools to study the Greek - you’d see the translators are indeed in error. Sometimes they will literally translate the same word differently in the same verse! How’s that for deception. They may translate the Greek word for Passover 99.99% of the time but then randomly choose to translate it to “Easter.”
Good job. Way to elucidate the truth!!
Looks like @Mr.M is going to get banned or exiled.
This thread is insane. Instead of telling point directly and using some scripture as proof, here communication looks like burying opponent under tons of scripture.
This is how I imagine demons of lawyers type argue. Use legalese as much as possible, nevermind if it's relevant or true. Bonus points if it makes other side bad or can accuse someone.
This thread is insane. Instead of telling point directly and using some scripture as proof, here communication looks like burying opponent under tons of scripture.
This is how I imagine demons of lawyers type argue. Use legalese as much as possible, nevermind if it's relevant or true. Bonus points if it makes other side bad or can accuse someone.
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I would say that in this case the “divorce” was initiated by the unbeliever. The believer is a victim of a one flesh breaking, not the perpetrator.
Differences of interpretation, even if significant, do not constitute heresy. Dial back the rhetoric and focus on making your case.
No it hasn’t.
Well, since you yourself noted that those of us who DO exactly that, and advocate that UNLESS we realize what He said in His Very First Public Address, in Matthew 5, is True, and He did NOT change "one yod or tiddle" of His Instruction about ANYTHING - including marriage - have felt like we were being throttled from a proper response to the @Mr.M blasphemy...
(Lest you forget, you yourself said:
)
... AND because such a VERY wide anti-Torah net has been cast here...
exactly WHAT did you mean?
And let me make this as clear as possible in a milieu of censorship:
What was it that we so wanted to say, that needed to be said against the blasphemy that Yahushua lied to all of us by doing something He just said He would not do?
And how would you address the bald-faced lie that He doesn't know enough about His own Written Word to distinguish between "putting away," and "divorce?" (And, enlighten us, please as to why you can say it, but we can't.)
And finally, how conducive is it to BF's "core purpose" to have such blasphemy used to make claims that would make any so-called "TO" type here throw up? That their marriage to a 'divorcee' is "adultery," and they must put her away; that no woman here who IS 'divorced,' even with a 'get,' is worthy of remarriage?
And, yes, read it - that their "salvation" is clearly in question.
How hideously crappy does a mis-translation actually have to be, in your opinion, to no longer constitute "Scripture"?
And, when any 'case' to such effect is ignored, what case can be made? Nobody still reading this can miss that.
So, to make that point:
Asked and answered, by more than a few here other than me, in this thread, including even before the troll came aboard.
The Messiah Yahushua said NOTHING of the SORT. And any literate pre-teen with an e-sword or BLB on-line look-up concordance can prove the point.
There are many people here who do not believe that Matthew 5 says what you say it does. They disagree with your interpretation of the passage.
We do not discourage anyone from studying scripture in anyway they choose. We do not allow two different interpretations of scripture to take over the forum. Study whatever you want in any manner you want. But keep the forum on topic.