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General What manner of Men…..

Maia said:
Then tell her to get a career to pay for it.
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To me, it’s all about being about the Father’s business.
If that is where her head is at, her heart is in the wrong place.
 
steve said:
To me, it’s all about being about the Father’s business.
If that is where her head is at, her heart is in the wrong place.
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I assume you mean our Heavenly Father.
 
The Revolting Man said:
What manner of men are able to take on multiple wives?

This post has been percolating around in my head for months now and I keep wanting to sit down and flesh it out into a full essay but clearly that isn’t going to happen so here is the truncated version.

I have been around this movement for roughly 15 years, most of those through BibFam. That’s nowhere near as long as some but it’s been long enough to notice to observe some traits that seem common to all of the men that I’ve known to “succeed” at polygyny.

We can express it one of several ways but the easiest is to say that they are entrepreneurial. I know that seems like an inadequate description but think of what that entails; these of men who have a vision, and pursue that vision (they’re active) boldly. They are innovating and building and establishing legacy in the world around them, outside of their marriage(s).

I also don’t necessarily mean that they’re wealthy, although most of them seem to have an above average income and an ability to accumulate and deploy resources. I’ve known a few successful, poor polygynists but not many.

The best example of this I know of would be @MeganC ‘s extraordinary husband Steve, I never had the privilege of meeting him though so I’m going to focus on men I do I know to make the case.

First up is @nathan , he has a history of actively chasing bold visions. I won’t belabor them all but we’re all a part of this organization that he built from the ground up to meet a need he saw that there was no obvious way to fulfill. It was a bold vision and he actively pursued.

@andrew is an even better example, those of you who are newer to the organization and haven’t been to a retreat don’t know his story as well but the man’s life has been nothing but actively pursuing one bold vision after another. It seems like the instant a vision is no longer bold that he actively looks for another one to pursue. I have heard him relate anecdote after anecdote that were nothing but the relentless pursuit of a bold vision. Again, I won’t give details in a public forum but he has built a number of extraordinary institutions outside of the extraordinary family he has built. And yes some of those are traditionally entrepreneurial and some are not.

@PeteR probably needs the least amount of introduction at this point but his active pursuit of bold visions long pre-dates his involvement in polygyny. He was a part of establishing a Torah keeping denomination and his various book projects (all finished and published, not just envisioned) are all excellent examples of the active pursuit of a bold vision.

There are many more examples I could name; @ABlessedMan , @Joleneakamama ‘s husband, @steve and many others.

All of these men showed entrepreneurial vigor and a habit of actively pursuing bold visions. And women flocked to them! The women weren’t swayed by having any old “covering” they could get. They weren’t swayed by a little bit of economic security (although no doubt that helps).

They were swayed by a man who built things that they wanted to be a part of. They were swayed by the adventure. They caught the vision and wanted to be a part of that.

I’m probably shouldn’t be pontificating about a woman’s motivations. I’m probably the last man to have an insight into that, but my observations of many years now has shown me that good looking, intelligent men who are kind with a good sense of humor, good with children and pets and like traveling friends and long walks on the beach; do not get multiple wives.

Men of action with bold visions get the girl. The princess wants to be rescued, not so she can go back to the castle and have tea with her ladies, she wants to be rescued so she can break free and help build a kingdom.

Although the last thing bold men of action worry about is what those around him want. He thinks about what is good and right.
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I really resonate with what @TheRevoltingMan said. As an entrepreneur myself, I’ve noticed that women are often attracted to the go-getter attitude that comes with that mindset. It takes a certain level of leadership to manage a family, especially in a polygynous setup, and I think a lot of women naturally want to be led by strong, capable men.

Leadership is crucial in both polygyny and patriarchy. Entrepreneurs tend to be natural leaders and risk-takers, which makes them more willing to take charge within their families. They're open to starting a polygynous family and are comfortable with the idea of finding and adding more wives without hesitation. This kind of confidence is key to creating a solid family foundation.

What really stands out is that it’s not just about financial stability; it’s about creating something meaningful together. Women are drawn to men who are building something, whether it's a business, a community, or a strong family unit. They want to be part of an adventure and a shared vision, not just someone who provides a paycheck.

The examples @TheRevoltingMan mentioned, like @nathan, @andrew, and @PeteR, really illustrate this point. These guys aren’t just chasing their personal success; they’re building legacies and opportunities for their families and communities. Their entrepreneurial spirit drives them to innovate and lead, which inspires the women around them to join in on that journey.

In short, the qualities that make men successful in polygyny—like having a bold vision, being a risk-taker, and being a strong leader—are super important for creating a healthy family dynamic. I totally agree with @TheRevoltingMan’s insights and appreciate the focus on these traits in building meaningful relationships and a strong family foundation.
 
The whole post was well stated, but for me this paragraph really nails it:
Raw Truth said:
What really stands out is that it’s not just about financial stability; it’s about creating something meaningful together. Women are drawn to men who are building something, whether it's a business, a community, or a strong family unit. They want to be part of an adventure and a shared vision, not just someone who provides a paycheck.
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Maia said:
There are certainly woman who are poor at that, I am not sure that men on average demonstrate competency here.

In the USA the best demonstration of financial illiteracy is bros in $80,000+pickups. If they can wirte them off as a business expense then sure, but not on a 4,5,6 year personal lease...... And these are like sand on a beach. Go to a Ford, Chevy, Ram dealership and look how many $80,000 pickups they have on the lot. It is mind blowing.
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I never understand that notion.

Not just a ludicrously poor financial decision but frankly so very many new vehicles are just trash based on attempts to comply with more and more over the top CAFE standards while still delivering acceleration that would have been considered blistering thirty years ago. The first thing that comes to my mind is the bloody nightmare of variable valve timing that issue on pretty much all domestic gasoline pickups after 06-08 and how it is a recipe for setting up a new engine fund off on the side. Or the joke that is many of the newer differentials, especially bloody GM products.

Could afford an 80k truck without undue muss or fuss I suppose but the idea is simply alien.
I am in fact going to be purchasing a truck in the near'ish term and I will be intentionally buying an older specific model with comparatively low mileage and then putting it through the proverbial paces with respect to a maintenance audit and ensuring that it will last many years and serve the role I intend for it.

I think the 80k truck guys are generally using the expensive over inflated shiny junk as a signaling mechanism. Look at me and my proxy peacock plumage.

No thanks
 
paterfamilias said:
I think the 80k truck guys are generally using the expensive over inflated shiny junk as a signaling mechanism. Look at me and my proxy peacock plumage.
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Exactly.
 
paterfamilias said:
I never understand that notion.

Not just a ludicrously poor financial decision but frankly so very many new vehicles are just trash based on attempts to comply with more and more over the top CAFE standards while still delivering acceleration that would have been considered blistering thirty years ago. The first thing that comes to my mind is the bloody nightmare of variable valve timing that issue on pretty much all domestic gasoline pickups after 06-08 and how it is a recipe for setting up a new engine fund off on the side. Or the joke that is many of the newer differentials, especially bloody GM products.

Could afford an 80k truck without undue muss or fuss I suppose but the idea is simply alien.
I am in fact going to be purchasing a truck in the near'ish term and I will be intentionally buying an older specific model with comparatively low mileage and then putting it through the proverbial paces with respect to a maintenance audit and ensuring that it will last many years and serve the role I intend for it.

I think the 80k truck guys are generally using the expensive over inflated shiny junk as a signaling mechanism. Look at me and my proxy peacock plumage.

No thanks
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You are moralizing.

Horewer, real issue is CAFE regulations. Bigger car makes it easier to comply with regulations which makes car more expensive.

Just as our overlords want. They slowly make car too expensive for people (except themselves).
 
MemeFan said:
You are moralizing.

Horewer, real issue is CAFE regulations. Bigger car makes it easier to comply with regulations which makes car more expensive.

Just as our overlords want. They slowly make car too expensive for people (except themselves).
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I am not. I am judging them as having pointy heads or rocks in their skull or insert analogy here. Thinking someone is making dumb decisions is not the same as moralizing. If I were moralizing, so what?
That is one of the most common past times here. Moralizing while getting into the nitty gritty of source material and various interpretations.

I am going to intentionally not go down the CAFE standards road as it were as I have rather a lot to say and it would be of interest to very few. Plus it is all just another grift by maladaptive government functionaries...not to mention the hand in glove bit eith industry so as to make it more difficult for start-ups to come on the scene.
Huh...government and industry working together to oppress and control the public. I would swear I have heard of an economic system like that somewhere...taps chin thoughtfully...nope, must just be my imagination.

I have some commentary about our overloads but this is an open forum as well as women who might read it. So I will leave you to utilize your imagination.
 
paterfamilias said:
I am not. I am judging them as having pointy heads or rocks in their skull or insert analogy here. Thinking someone is making dumb decisions is not the same as moralizing. If I were moralizing, so what?
That is one of the most common past times here. Moralizing while getting into the nitty gritty of source material and various interpretations.

I am going to intentionally not go down the CAFE standards road as it were as I have rather a lot to say and it would be of interest to very few. Plus it is all just another grift by maladaptive government functionaries...not to mention the hand in glove bit eith industry so as to make it more difficult for start-ups to come on the scene.
Huh...government and industry working together to oppress and control the public. I would swear I have heard of an economic system like that somewhere...taps chin thoughtfully...nope, must just be my imagination.

I have some commentary about our overloads but this is an open forum as well as women who might read it. So I will leave you to utilize your imagination.
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But judgement isn't possible without morality codex usage. You must use some criteria.

And when government massively reduces your options, they are taking responsibility from you. If somebody puts gun on your head, you are responsible for nothing. Because your free will is taken from you.

Regulations have same effects.
 
MemeFan said:
But judgement isn't possible without morality codex usage. You must use some criteria.
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Nope
Not even remotely with respect to morality.
I can and do grade homeschool work all the time and I have no difficulty judging correct answers to questions in quizzes and worksheets without having to drop back to a moral code.

What you are referring to is social problems and painting with a roller rather than a standard wide brush.
For social issues one will need a codex or at minimum a thumb against which you may measure.

As a sidebar issue, I am predicting now that in time we will find in time that not only will our moral codex have been pushed and solidified by memetic programing ie the cultural norms and religious texts/adherence but also via epigenetic racial/group memory.
 
paterfamilias said:
Nope
Not even remotely with respect to morality.
I can and do grade homeschool work all the time and I have no difficulty judging correct answers to questions in quizzes and worksheets without having to drop back to a moral code.
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Correct math answers aren't morality.

paterfamilias said:
What you are referring to is social problems and painting with a roller rather than a standard wide brush.
For social issues one will need a codex or at minimum a thumb against which you may measure.
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Man can only be responsible for direct results of his actions done on purpose.

paterfamilias said:
As a sidebar issue, I am predicting now that in time we will find in time that not only will our moral codex have been pushed and solidified by memetic programing ie the cultural norms and religious texts/adherence but also via epigenetic racial/group memory.
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Maybe. Won't be suprised.
 
MemeFan said:
Man can only be responsible for direct results of his actions done on purpose.
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And that is why I have a signature line on my profile that I do

"Morality is your agreement with yourself to abide by your own rules"
Robert Heinlein
 
paterfamilias said:
And that is why I have a signature line on my profile that I do

"Morality is your agreement with yourself to abide by your own rules"
Robert Heinlein
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How would that work with the notion of "Survival of the fittest"? The nazis believed that their race was superior to all others. Was their defeat proof that they were wrong, or can we say that the victory of democracy proves that killing unborn children is acceptable?
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
How would that work with the notion of "Survival of the fittest"? The nazis believed that their race was superior to all others. Was their defeat proof that they were wrong, or can we say that the victory of democracy proves that killing unborn children is acceptable?
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I have no idea how any of that connects to anything I have said or could possibly be projected onto me.
 
It has to do with that Robert Heinlein quote that you directed us to.
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
It has to do with that Robert Heinlein quote that you directed us to.
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I understood that but I don't see how anything I have publicly displayed about my character could link me ideologically to left wing collectivist types in form of the mid century Germans and mustache man or anything to do with abortion.

In point of fact, being likely the most hard right politically in the group...and not by the false definition of maladaptive nonce types on the left...I would have thought it was fairly easy to assume that my own rules for self governance ie my moral code was anything but the polar opposite of those examples.
Hence my confusion
 
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