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wadda ya think?

steve said:
Melanie said:
For every Muslim example you could give for not following ones faith properly i could show you a Christian one too.
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surely you jest.
if you honestly believe this lets pull out only the one example that i stated about honour killings of rape victims and discuss what would be the failure of christians that might be equal
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How about we start with the Crusades, then maybe we can chat about the inquisition and perhaps then natter on about centuries of catholic V Protestant violence. Thats just skimming the surface...

Equal? To be honest i think in terms of spilled blood, measure for measure Christians have probably out done any other religion. The extremists are extreme because they represent only the EXTREME of their faith. Anyone that claims that Christianity as an cultural institution is some how better than others, more good more moral has their head wedged very far in some dark and scary place.

...but of course I'm just a girl...what the heck would i know ;)
 
yes, there were things done in the past when christianity was hijacked by the enemy. none of us in any way justifies them.
they were an aberation and not at all taught to us in our bible. we believe in global domination by the renewing of peoples minds

the difference that i see is that the koran teachs (along with truth as the enemy always does) domination by the sword. if the infidel does not accept their teachings he shall be a slave, or executed, or in some cases be allowed to continue on in life while paying a financial tribute to them. this is preached loud and often by their more devout clerics.
their faith is not being hijacked. it is just getting closer to its stated goals

the failure of some of a belief systems adherants in following those teachings is not what makes a belief system inferior. we must compare the teachings themselves and on that basis, yes, christianity is much better. but then one has to actually understand the teachings of our creator in order to make the distinction

Melanie said:
...but of course I'm just a girl...what the heck would i know ;)
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hey, i said nothing about gender. i treat all as equals until they get irrational and illogical and usually long after
 
the way we are talking about treating women is not by "christianity" per say, but biblically. and since the bible is the word of the almighty God, what the koran or muhhammed said is supposed to give me some sort of pause? it's like using tom sawyer to dispute Newton's work on mathmatics. NO BEARING. since one of the three pillars of islam is jihad, tell me the radicals are anything other than good and faithful representatives of their religion.
 
I see people down on the crusades a lot, but thats got to be a show of western ignorance or historical ignorance or something. How any person living in a free country can begrudge the wars that ultimately halted the expansion of the Ottoman Empire and Muslim avarice for world domination. Certainly there where boundaries overstepped from the beginning and questionable motivations on many parts, and the knightly orders such as the Knights Templar degenerated into horrible vice. I don't mind if someone says that one of the many abominations that occurred during the crusades is a failing in the name of Christianity, but we have much to be thankful for concerning the wars themselves. We most likely would have been dominated by the sword of Jihad without them.
 
yes, they started it! thank you! and they're back to califate building once again!

they haven't contributed to civilization since algebra, excepting for that wonderful fasion accessory, the burkah.
 
How about we start with the Crusades, then maybe we can chat about the inquisition and perhaps then natter on about centuries of catholic V Protestant violence. Thats just skimming the surface...
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The problem with 'men' (no gender reference intended there, for all have fallen, and there is no one born of man righteous, "no not one") is that is that every warning Written in His Word is True, and still applies; there really is "nothing new under the sun".

Men "added to" the Word, and still do. Yeshua called them "Hypocrites!" for the desire to replace His commandments with the "traditions" of men. Popes claimed to do what the Savior said He would NOT, and correct all the 'mistakes' God made...from "forbidding to marry" to changing His Appointed Times, and even renaming His Perfect Sacrifice as the Passover Lamb after a pagan fertility goddess. Such apostasy needs little additional excuse to depart from the rest of His teaching and instruction!


As steve noted, Melanie, no one here is attempting to defend things which are -- without question -- anathema to His Word. But it is true that there are 'other books', not consistent with that same Word, which teach things not in accord with Him at all.

I contend that there is 'another Yeshua', another spirit, at work in the word - by whatever name. Our Savior did not contest its claim to dominion over this earth. And by that fruit you can know it.

Blessings in the Name of YHVH,

Mark
 
Kmel,

I don't think you can say they haven't contributed anything to civilization since algebra either. Aside from the obvious oil production and export they have been major allies of the US in combating Communist interests up till the last few decades. There isn't really any need to be vindictive about what they've done either.
 
yes, i know. i have been praying about that very thing. i have such little generosity of spirit about them. He'll probably do something like send me to minister to them, like he sent jonah to nineveh! i'm sorry, i truly am trying!
 
That was the crux of my point, Kmeltonlnc. Muslims just seem to have taken the place Jews once occupied as the peoples the majority like to kick around and blame everything on. History repeating... And i think it's important to understand where someone is coming from before you can minister to them. Isn't everyone worth saving?
 
Oh, darlin' Kmelt!

If God can plunk me down in the middle of Baghdad for three years and give me an overwhelming love for Muslims (but not Islam,) girl, He can do it for you! Steve will tell you that I miss Iraq horribly and would go back in a heart beat if we felt like that was what YHWH wanted. Mind you, this love was born while living over the wall from neighbors who made no bones about wanting to store my infidel head in a refrigerator. There is an amazing sovereign move of God going on all over the Middle East where Muslims are having dreams and visions of Isa. (That's the Arabic word for Jesus, whom Islam reveres as a prophet, but doesn't believe was the Son of God, was crucified nor rose from the dead, and who will convert Christians to Islam when He comes back with the Mahdi.) If you google in two phrases "Muslim dreams of Jesus," and "Muslim visions of Jesus," you'll be amazed at the testimonies. Folks are getting genuinely saved right in their beds, and it was waaaaaay cool to watch our Papa at work. I miss the Great Sandbox!!
 
Melanie, I am always interested in hearing how other Christians minister to Muslims. I would love to know how you have dealt with the issues of Yeshua being God's Son, and the resurrection.
 
My 2 cents -

Islam is by definition an antichrist religion and driven by the antichrist spirit. Just because someone calls themselves Christian does not mean that they are one. Many lawless deeds have been done in the name of Christianity..

I John 4:1-6 -

1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. 4You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. 6We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.

Matthew 7:21-23 -

21Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? 23And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.

We are called to preach the gospel to everyone. Muslims are no exception, (Mark 16:15). There are probably many Christians who currently call themselves Muslim out of ignorance. To echo what Melanie said, if we do not show them Jesus, then they will not see Jesus. When true Christians make them thirsty for the water of the Word of God because of their saltiness, (Matt. 5:13), then they will convert. Otherwise, God will send an angel fom heaven to teach them directly, (Rev. 14:6-7).

Be blessed,

Dr. Ray
 
Kmelt,

That's an admirable attitude. Its hard to be graceful and love your enemies. I very much respect your reply.

Mel,

What a coincidence I mentioned blood libel when thinking of majorly bad things Christians have done in the past. It goes with your point so well.

Alit,

I love a good testimony of good things happening. Thank you for that.
 
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