Meat Times of the End?

[steve]

A bit of background for the thought:
When Yah created Adam, did He already have a date certain for the Fall?
The Flood?
The Crucifixion?
The Millennium?
Or does the timing of each of these occurrences happen in reaction to the choices that men make.
All of that to come to this point:
I heard a belief that the start of the end times began with the start of Barack’s second term. That it wouldn’t have started that early if a different choice had been made. No mention was made about the length of time before the Millennium actually starts, presumably that is affected by how quickly society goes downhill in the meantime.
I’m wondering if this strikes a chord with anyone else.

 

[Mojo]

I'm not one to tie all eschatology to American events, so I'm skeptical of the Obama timing.

What's the rationale for Obama, and not say...Clinton, Carter?

Could it have been because it was the first time in American politics that the major parties nominated non-orthodox "Christians" (Romney a Mormon and Obama an atheist with closet Muslim affections)?

 

[steve]

What's the rationale for Obama, and not say...Clinton, Carter?

It was the place that the nation (edit: world?) was in when it made that decision. That it chose to continue on that path.

 

[FollowingHim]

I think we're in a continuum to the end. To label one time as the "start" of the end times would be probably wrong. Everything is joined to something before it.

I also think that what is happening to the USA relates to the fall of the USA. Not necessarily the end times. Many other empires have fallen in the past.

I strongly suspect the USA is Babylon the Great, and its fall could be part of the end times. But I am also biased towards interpreting that which happens in my lifetime in accordance with prophecy. It may be that another future empire is Babylon.

 

[steve]

I think we're in a continuum to the end. To label one time as the "start" of the end times would be probably wrong. Everything is joined to something before it.

Obviously it’s all been a continuum since the Transfiguration, but there may be a point in our decline that Yah recognizes as a marker for the starting point of the end times.
It isn’t about a nation, just a point in time that is recognized worldwide.

 

[Joleneakamama]

I strongly suspect the USA is Babylon the Great, and its fall could be part of the end times. But I am also biased towards interpreting that which happens in my lifetime in accordance with prophecy. It may be that another future empire is Babylon

I doubt very much that mystery babylon is an empire in the traditional sense. It has grown into a worldwide dominating threat. It rules over the kings of the earth. Wasn't there someone that talked about issuing currency? Allow me to issue a nations currency and I care not who makes its laws.
The Corona response of nations was bought. That response plundered economies devastating small businesses while the big guys at the top gained in Power and influence. Believers all over the world are being set up for forced submission to evil people that have an unsatiable desire for money and power. Yes, we are the strong arm being used, but if you look behind the scenes much of the destruction is being pushed by lobby's like the huge foreign one some want to believe we should bless.
The great whore sits on "many waters" (nations) and uses them all in her quest to conquer the rest.
All this in the middle east is about destabilizing and tearing the nations down so they can be rebuilt under a debt monetary system....and so those in power can have every resource claimed as theirs.

 

[coupleinaz]

The Book is first, then the movie. Both have credits showing the same Author. It is predetermined to have an ending. Using your Free will you will determine whether you are invited to the after party.

 

[Cap]

A bit of background for the thought:
When Yah created Adam, did He already have a date certain for the Fall?
The Flood?
The Crucifixion?
The Millennium?
Or does the timing of each of these occurrences happen in reaction to the choices that men make.
All of that to come to this point:
I heard a belief that the start of the end times began with the start of Barack’s second term. That it wouldn’t have started that early if a different choice had been made. No mention was made about the length of time before the Millennium actually starts, presumably that is affected by how quickly society goes downhill in the meantime.
I’m wondering if this strikes a chord with anyone else.

I believe, that God operates in a realty that everything is predestined. Everything that is meant to happen will happen in its established time. I don't believe that God operates based on our decisions, or reacts to our actions. He has taken into account every probable decision we could make in the progress of His creation.

We, on the other hand, live in a realty were we think our decisions matter in the course of history. All we are really left with is trying to understand why we made the decisions we make, and to live with those consequences. But, in realty our decisions have already been preordained. We just don't know it. To us we think we have free will, and we do to a certain extent. We can choose whatever decision we want to make. But, God has laid out our lives based on all the possible probabilities we could ever come up with in this life. And to make it even more complicated, one persons reality is totally different than the next, and the next, and the next. No two people see the same reality. Some can come close, but not completely.

I too, believe that we are in a continuum to the end, and not just the world at large, but each one of our lives.

The big question then is always, what happens next?

 

[steve]

I believe, that God operates in a realty that everything is predestined. Everything that is meant to happen will happen in its established time. I don't believe that God operates based on our decisions, or reacts to our actions. He has taken into account every probable decision we could make in the progress of His creation.

We, on the other hand, live in a realty were we think our decisions matter in the course of history. All we are really left with is trying to understand why we made the decisions we make, and to live with those consequences. But, in realty our decisions have already been preordained. We just don't know it. To us we think we have free will, and we do to a certain extent. We can choose whatever decision we want to make. But, God has laid out our lives based on all the possible probabilities we could ever come up with in this life. And to make it even more complicated, one persons reality is totally different than the next, and the next, and the next. No two people see the same reality. Some can come close, but not completely.

I too, believe that we are in a continuum to the end, and not just the world at large, but each one of our lives.

The big question then is always, what happens next?

I hope that we can agree to disagree on this one, my friend.
I hear what you are saying.

What happens next?
All I can say is don’t let the popcorn run low.

 

[Cap]

I hope that we can agree to disagree on this one, my friend.
I hear what you are saying.

What happens next?
All I can say is don’t let the popcorn run low.

I know my view is not the standard and I am ok with you, or anyone disagreeing. I don't have all the facts anyway.

I do agree that we are witnessing a show, and somehow those of us who have a strong relationship can watch it and be a support to those who are not so sure. I have already noticed that certain individuals, mostly women who are alone or let's say, spiritually alone, are starting to gravitate towards people who are, shall we say, more at ease in the current situation. Isa 4:1 comes to mind.

 

[rockfox]

I doubt very much that mystery babylon is an empire in the traditional sense.

Ya it is helpful to realize there are different kinds of empires. The US is a global empire with many Tributary kings. But we don't extract Tribute nor control them in great detail. Instead we profit off them by mandating their participation in our global monetary standard; allowing us to print unlimited dollars. We have a financial empire. An empire the expends resources so that the merchants may profit.

And that is only at the first level. In truth the US financial empire actually serves the international banking empire.

I too am skeptical of the impulse to find the US in prophecy; its a very solipsistic approach. But pay particular attention to the merchants in Rev 18 and their description of a global trade of riches failing. Excepting the fall of Ancient Rome, the Globalist empire failing would be the only other world event to match that. Modern global trade far exceeds that of Rome. If it is the modern Global empire pictured then the elites who run it today are that Babylon (or maybe the US or NYC or DC). The only hitch being is the 'drunk with the blood of the saints' part. That fits the RCC more than the US. Although the info coming out about the elites from the Q movement provides evidence of that.

When Yah created Adam, did He already have a date certain for the Fall?

The Flood?
The Crucifixion?
The Millennium?

Aside from theories about God and time...

I don't know of any prophetic dating on the flood (but maybe in Enoch?). The Crucifixion though was prophesied to the year in Daniel. Similar granularity is seen in prophesying Cyrus would be the name of the King to let the Hebrews return from exile. The millennium and judgement day? IDK. There is an implication by Christ's words that God does know the day and time for that; He's just not sharing.

Everything that is meant to happen will happen in its established time. I don't believe that God operates based on our decisions, or reacts to our actions. He has taken into account every probable decision we could make in the progress of His creation.

There are times when God has been surprised by peoples actions. Time's when God has regretted doing things. Times when God has had his mind changed. I don't see reality as a predetermined play where God is both playwright and actor and nothing can change.

 

[Cap]

I believe, that God operates in a realty that everything is predestined. Everything that is meant to happen will happen in its established time. I don't believe that God operates based on our decisions, or reacts to our actions. He has taken into account every probable decision we could make in the progress of His creation.

We, on the other hand, live in a realty were we think our decisions matter in the course of history. All we are really left with is trying to understand why we made the decisions we make, and to live with those consequences. But, in realty our decisions have already been preordained. We just don't know it. To us we think we have free will, and we do to a certain extent. We can choose whatever decision we want to make. But, God has laid out our lives based on all the possible probabilities we could ever come up with in this life. And to make it even more complicated, one persons reality is totally different than the next, and the next, and the next. No two people see the same reality. Some can come close, but not completely.

I too, believe that we are in a continuum to the end, and not just the world at large, but each one of our lives.

The big question then is always, what happens next?

A couple of days ago I was out and about in my truck. First stop, loaded up something, realised I had forgotten my cellphone. Drove back home to get it, and realised I had left my strop box open and had no ratchets left by the time I got home. Retraced my route and found them all along the road. Got to my final destination, and realised I'd lost part of my load. Started the truck to go back down the road to find it, and didn't get out of the paddock before I ran out of diesel (fuel gauge has been broken for years). Found my spare diesel can was empty. Siphoned a few litres of diesel out of a digger to put in the truck. Had to bleed the injector fuel lines to get it running again.

I cannot recall ever having so many things go wrong in a string like that! Despite this, once I finally got things sorted, I had an extremely productive day and achieved everything I had originally intended. God provides us with what we need even when things are a mess.

I just realised today that in that entire trip, there were only two places I could have run out of diesel and actually had more available - one petrol station I drove past, and my destination. I could have run out of fuel absolutely anywhere, and the day would have been completely messed up had I ran out of fuel on the side of the road somewhere, but God had me run out of fuel right beside the digger I could siphon fuel out of. Sometimes even what seems to be a disastrous mess at the time turns out to have been perfectly planned.

So if free will controls everything then how did the person who drove the digger (backhoe/bulldozer I think) know to park the piece of equipment right where it was and leave the level of fuel you need in it? How would the digger operator know you would need it unless, humanism or karma is at work? I don't believe it is, I believe that God arranged the whole thing, He did not react to the negative things you did. Unless you were the digger operator, then you would have already known that you would need it later. So then you created your reality.

I believe that everything as a purpose in our lives to lead us to an end result. The world is on its course as so are we individually. We don't necessarily analyze the positive things that happen in our lives, but we most of the time try to analyze the negative things. And that is where I believe God leads us. And depending on ones predisposition to God, determines whether we react negatively or positively.

Interesting to me how this thread was created, so you could describe your experience, and how it all relates to the negativity that is going on in other parts of the forum.

"I cannot recall ever having so many things go wrong in a string like that!" Maybe there is a reason for that.

Most negative things in our lives are connected somehow, and God uses them to get us to pay attention.

I blew a steer tire last week. Two lane road with oncoming traffic and a ravine with an inadequate guardrail to my right. These can be life endangering situations, but I believe that angels kept me going straight. An oncoming truck driver expressed some amazement at how easy it went.

Interesting. Glad you are safe.

 

[steve]

Interesting. Glad you are safe.

Thank you.

We each come at this elephant from a different direction, but at the end of the day we agree that Yah is involved in our lives.
My go-to verse is
Genesis 50:20 (KJV)
But as for you, ye thought evil against me; [but] God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as [it is] this day, to save much people alive.

 

[Cap]

Thank you.

We each come at this elephant from a different direction, but at the end of the day we agree that Yah is involved in our lives.
My go-to verse is
Genesis 50:20 (KJV)
But as for you, ye thought evil against me; [but] God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as [it is] this day, to save much people alive.

Great one along with,

Romans 8:28
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

 

[tps26]

I believe that everything has already been determined by God to the smallest and finest detail. We get to live an adventure because we don't know how each day goes until it is over. But the future is just as set in stone as the past, and this should be a comfort to you.

We live in the relative, we rest in the absolute.

Proverbs 16:9
A man’s heart plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.

Isaiah 46:9-11
Remember the former things of old; for I [am] God, and there is none else; [I am] God, and there is none like me; declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure; calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country. Yea, I have spoken, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Psalm 139:16
Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.

There are more verses, but I think that these sum it up succinctly. This is an important realization to come to in faith because curchianity doesn't believe these as they don't believe that Christ died for sins. If God is responsible for everything then it takes away the ability to save ourselves by "making a descision for Christ" that they hold so dear. They believe that Christ died for everything except for the sin of unbelief, which it turns out is the only one that really matters. Their "0.0001%" contribution to the equation is effectively greater than Christ’s "99.9999%" because without it they believe they aren't saved despite the "99.9999%". I assert that God is 100% responsible for everything, good and evil, and that Christ’s work is 100% effective whether someone realizes that it worked or not. And I wouldn't want it any other way.

To answer @rockfox's comment that:
"There are times when God has been surprised by peoples actions. Time's when God has regretted doing things. Times when God has had his mind changed. I don't see reality as a predetermined play where God is both playwright and actor and nothing can change."

I would say that God condescends (i.e. with-descends) to our level to speak in temporal, relatable terms. Sometimes He chooses to speak like a mortal human to be better understood, and create a greater emotional connection. This isn't an alteration of His nature any more than when any of us talk to a baby in an entirely ridiculous manner that we would never use with another adult – we do it to connect with the baby.

The timing for all events, including those @steve listed, are predetermined regardless of what we do or think.
There is no way we can bugger up God's plan, and that's a good thing. The beauty of it all is that we get to have that peace while still experiencing the excitement of discovering what God has written for our lives, one page at a time.

 

[steve]

I just don’t get the point of living a lifestyle that is anything short of Hedonism if everything is already written in stone.
I might as well drink to excess if it’s already been decreed.
I have no right to get upset if someone rapes a wife or two of mine because Yah already decided it was going to happen, so it’s not that that guy is really all that responsible.
In fact, why does He condemn me for lusting after a married woman if He already chose that path for me?

I’m so confused.
After all,

There is no way we can bugger up God's plan,

 

[Gary Slaughenhaupt]

I find these kinds of debates get old quick like a ride on a carousel. I do believe there is no way we can bugger up God's plan but I am confident I can bugger up my life if I don't follow God's instructions because He took the time to give them to us.

 

[frederick]

Matt. 11:20-24; Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent: “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you.”

God knows every reality and every possibility therefore we can be certain prophecy will be fulfilled exactly as He has revealed. These verses also remind us that God doesn't treat everyone the same, giving them the same opportunity to repent.

 

[steve]

God knows every reality and every possibility therefore we can be certain prophecy will be fulfilled exactly as He has revealed. These verses also remind us that God doesn't treat everyone the same, giving them the same opportunity to repent.

It also shows that their decisions/actions change history.

 

[Cap]

I just don’t get the point of living a lifestyle that is anything short of Hedonism if everything is already written in stone.
I might as well drink to excess if it’s already been decreed.
I have no right to get upset if someone rapes a wife or two of mine because Yah already decided it was going to happen, so it’s not that that guy is really all that responsible.
In fact, why does He condemn me for lusting after a married woman if He already chose that path for me?

If you don't do these things, why would you think you have to.

Could YOU actually rob a bank? I mean really, think about it.