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Support Thou shalt not Covet

Maddog

Maddog

Member
Male
One of the Big Ten says, "Thou shalt not covet." Many think this means you cant desire to have something. If that is so then all of Capitalism (the free exchange of goods) is in violation of the 10 Commandment of God. Why cant I desire the neighbors plow horse (or his really fast mustang gt 500)? Me thinks we have lost something in translation here.
 
Maddog said:
One of the Big Ten says, "Thou shalt not covet." Many think this means you cant desire to have something. If that is so then all of Capitalism (the free exchange of goods) is in violation of the 10 Commandment of God. Why cant I desire the neighbors plow horse (or his really fast mustang gt 500)? Me thinks we have lost something in translation here.
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This is similar to the idea that the Christian can never look at any woman with any degree of sexual interest, based on the Lord's instruction about not lusting after other men's wives. 😏
 
You are not forbidden to try to buy something.

But stealing and destruction of neighbor because he has something you want is very very bad.
 
MemeFan said:
You are not forbidden to try to buy something.

But stealing and destruction of neighbor because he has something you want is very very bad.
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As MemeFan mentioned, there is a difference between being interested in buying something, and coveting it.
 
If I see a neighbor with a great truck or tractor it could inspire me to get one for myself. That means I might covet a truck or tractor but not my neighbor's truck or tractor.

Likewise, I have no problem with a man wanting for himself a good wife like he might see with one of his friends.

But the wise man would know that he cannot make a good wife of someone else's wife because in the course of obtaining her she would no longer be good.

The truly wise man accepts the fact that there are some things you simply cannot have. And you cannot have someone else's good marriage.

But I'd say it's quite possible to obtain their bad marriage.
 
MeganC said:
If I see a neighbor with a great truck or tractor it could inspire me to get one for myself. That means I might covet a truck or tractor but not my neighbor's truck or tractor.

Likewise, I have no problem with a man wanting for himself a good wife like he might see with one of his friends.

But the wise man would know that he cannot make a good wife of someone else's wife because in the course of obtaining her she would no longer be good.

The truly wise man accepts the fact that there are some things you simply cannot have. And you cannot have someone else's good marriage.

But I'd say it's quite possible to obtain their bad marriage.
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Right 👍
I believe it is fine to think to yourself "Wow, what a delightful wife my neighbor has. I praise God for thus blessing him. I hope that the Lord also blesses me in a similar way". That is totally different than "I want her, and I wish I could somehow get her".

Likewise, I think it is fine to think or say, "My friend has a great car, truck, horse, house, vineyard, or whatever. I hope to someday have something similar, or perhaps buy his if he wishes to sell it". That's different than wishing to take that which belongs to your neighbor.
 
It is also noteworthy that "neighbor's daughter" is not on the do not covet list. What is the neighbor's, house, man servant, maid servant, ox, etc. are all things that build his house and make his life and family life easier. The daughter however, is expected to build another man's "house." She is not a permanent part of her father's house.

Being satisfied with what you have, and doing your best to maximize it, is the best way to getting more. Being a faithful steward will get you far further then ogling your neighbor's place or things.
 
MeganC said:
If by 'legally' you mean under God's law then I wholeheartedly agree!
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Most definitely i mean legally. It seems that the coveting is a precursor to theft, adultery, murder, and most of the other commandments, it is that hideous.
The ox was ancient mans tractor, ass was his truck and transportation. If those items were not for sale or barter then coveting them would be sin. If they WERE available then a proper transaction could ensue. The wife however could NOT be on the auction block as left unchecked could be adulterous and a capital offence. Coveting could be the first dominoe in a long string of violations. Being content with Gods blessing goes a long way for the God follower. Coveting the good way makes for a strong market based economy though as one develops a better product and sells that to his neighbor who in turn has a greater yield in his field or longer lasting shoes or less work for similar labor. I can cut more wood with a chain saw with less labor than with an ax. Greater efficiencies make greater wealth. Poverty sucks. Rise above it through a righteous form of coveting.
 
Matthew 5:28 is often used as a cudgel to say that lusting after ANY woman is adultery. This is applied even to young men having a perfectly healthy desire for a spouse. I should know; it was used by my mother against me as a youth and I still feel effects from that abuse over a decade later.

So imagine my surprise when I discovered that the Greek words in Matt5:28 (epithemeo ho gyne = "lust a woman") were an exact match to the 10th commandment in the septuagint. (epithemeo ho gyne = covet a wife) I agree whole-heartedly with the OP that something was definitely lost in translation. I'm quite glad to see such reasonable folk here! Gives me hope for humanity.
 
DawoodSaar said:
Matthew 5:28 is often used as a cudgel to say that lusting after ANY woman is adultery. This is applied even to young men having a perfectly healthy desire for a spouse. I should know; it was used by my mother against me as a youth and I still feel effects from that abuse over a decade later.

So imagine my surprise when I discovered that the Greek words in Matt5:28 (epithemeo ho gyne = "lust a woman") were an exact match to the 10th commandment in the septuagint. (epithemeo ho gyne = covet a wife) I agree whole-heartedly with the OP that something was definitely lost in translation. I'm quite glad to see such reasonable folk here! Gives me hope for humanity.
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1 Timothy 4:3 says anyone that forbids marriages has been seduced by demonic teachings. They weren’t able to prohibit polygamy without changing “wife” to “woman.” But Romans 14:23 says if you believe you’re sinning - then you’re sinning. Therefore if this false deception is believed by a Christian and he still does it - he’s guilty of adultery in his heart for lusting for any woman - including a single virgin.

As 1 Timothy 4:3 says - seduced by demonic spirits. This started in 1563 when council of Trent forbade polygamy.
 
frederick said:
Not really as this was a common belief in the worship of Juno many centuries earlier. It only became law among the Christians under the Roman Catholic influence after the council of Trent.
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I meant to say 1563 we have the definitive proof this prophecy was fulfilled. The “some” the scripture is talking about are the bishops. If you go back to 1 Timothy 3 - it’s talking about bishops. The council of Trent was a council of bishops. Some decided it is to be forbidden - but not all agreed to it. Regardless - it became official Catholic doctrine - and the Protestant and orthodox churches eventually followed suit through a combination of deceptive translations (Matthew 5:28), and of course persecutions. King James passed a law forbidding polygamy in the 16th century and sent polygamous men to jail. America followed suit as well with the polygamous Christians in places like Utah.
 
I think that you are taking things a bit too far in your zeal to fight this teaching.
Earth_is- said:
1 Timothy 4:3 says anyone that forbids marriages has been seduced by demonic teachings.
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No it doesn’t.
1Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some will abandon the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons, 2influenced by the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences are seared with a hot iron.
3They will prohibit marriage……
It says that some will, not anyone who does. Otherwise marriage to your sister would qualify as a demonic teaching.
But I agree that teaching against polygyny is of the enemy.
Earth_is- said:
They weren’t able to prohibit polygamy without changing “wife” to “woman.”
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Overstated, they could have still prohibited it without needing this misunderstanding. In fact, (as has been already discussed ) no marriage in which a man desires his woman could take place if the strict meaning of the verse is observed.
Earth_is- said:
But Romans 14:23 says if you believe you’re sinning - then you’re sinning. Therefore if this false deception is believed by a Christian and he still does it - he’s guilty of adultery in his heart for lusting for any woman - including a single virgin.
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He is condemned in his own heart, but he is not guilty before the Father.
 
Earth_is- said:
America followed suit as well with the polygamous Christians in places like Utah.
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Here with the Utah reference I believe you are talking about Mormons, who being truly polytheistic are not properly Christian.

America was wrong to prohibit polygyny, as God Himself does not.
 
Bartato said:
Here with the Utah reference I believe you are talking about Mormons, who being truly polytheistic are not properly Christian.

America was wrong to prohibit polygyny, as God Himself does not.
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Yes, I agree that Mormons are not properly Christian; and used by the adversary to publicly shame polygamy. So any Christian that thinks about polygamy the Christians against it remember about the sexual abuse, and the Mormon beliefs associated with it; instead of remembering Abraham, Moses, David, Gideon, and others were polygamists.
 
steve said:
I think that you are taking things a bit too far in your zeal to fight this teaching.

No it doesn’t.
1Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some will abandon the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons, 2influenced by the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences are seared with a hot iron.
3They will prohibit marriage……
It says that some will, not anyone who does. Otherwise marriage to your sister would qualify as a demonic teaching.
But I agree that teaching against polygyny is of the enemy.

Overstated, they could have still prohibited it without needing this misunderstanding. In fact, (as has been already discussed ) no marriage in which a man desires his woman could take place if the strict meaning of the verse is observed.

He is condemned in his own heart, but he is not guilty before the Father.
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Romans 14:23

“If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning.”

So if most of the Christian teenagers and men have been taught that looking at any woman with lust - and they still do it - they’ve indeed committed adultery - which was punishable by death in the mosaic law. A teenager can literally commit adultery simply by going on a date with his girlfriend if he’s not “extremely” careful. I’m not even touching the other places he can fall into lust for a woman (tv shows, movies, magazines at grocery stores, internet, at the beach, etc).

Luke 11:46:

Jesus replied, “And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.

Matthew 23:13
But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.

If Matthew 5:28 was correctly translated to “wife” then polygamy would be still be acceptable in the Christian world.

But if you change it to “woman” which is technically still a “wife,” you can not have polygamy. Because lust for any woman = sin. Therefore polygamy is forbidden and marriage becomes a necessary evil to have children. But this deceptive teaching comes at a cost - it could be sending untold millions upon millions of Christian men into the lake of fire for simply lusting for any woman.

If it’s “wife.” Then it’s a very easy and light burden - just like Jesus says those follow that “him” will experience. Don’t mess with another man’s wife. Just like you wouldn’t want someone messing with your own wife. Simple. Righteous. Loving. Just and fair. That’s what you get for following Jesus and not doctrines of men in religious institutions that load you with heavy burdens, and don’t make it easy for you to enter the kingdom of heaven.
 
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