This is rambling but...

[Paul not the apostle]

If I can’t sleep and I go to the doctor and he gives me some chemical drug to help me sleep and then I use coffee/caffeine to get me up in the morning, and I take some anti nausea drug to help me travel without vomiting and it is acceptable to Christians because a doctor said I should take it, then can I smoke pot to help me sleep or not be nauseous, etc. if I am a Believer and I live in California and have a medical waiver? I would not be breaking any of man’s laws then. That would mean that I could not have plural marriage but I could smoke pot. This is interesting to me.

I know that the law of the land means relatively little to me here in the USA where we can kill the unborn and enforce personal income tax without it being apportioned, but I am interested in the ramifications of it being legal in general in this country and how that applies to Christianity. When I was growing up the alcohol thing was really a taboo thing in mainstream churches. Now, the church that I grew up in has just removed it's alcohol ban from the membership applications. It seems to not be as big of an issue now, just don't abuse your beverages, brother! Are we approaching the day when smoking pot for insomnia and nausea and headaches is the norm? Or even for relaxation? Is it a sin for a Christian to smoke marijuana or make food with it?

In talking with other non poly supportive Christians they do say that many of the pro poly arguments are arguments from silence, and I think that the marijuana arguments would have to be along those lines both for and against. Also, the “if it is a sin, it was always a sin” argument is one of my favorites for defending plural marriage. Following this reasoning, if smoking pot is wrong, it is wrong no matter what the government says, and it is wrong for always and forever.

You don’t need to tell me about your secret grow operation and how you can get it to me risk free, or your brother who is a DEA agent that is now looking for me. I would like to know what others think about this topic as it relates to the Believer. Any input about how unbelievably dangerous and horrible it is or how it is a wonderful gift from our Creator is also appreciated. I do realize that there are members here from other countries and I would like to hear how it is perceived in your areas as well.

Thanks,
Paul

 

[Tlaloc]

In general I would say that the abuse does not negate the use. Any painkiller can be overused, any intoxicant can be, but in moderation most things are acceptable. I never have used it myself in any capacity, but theoretically it does not seem to be any more or less dangerous than alcohol. Alcahol is a very serious problem when overused, but in minor doses it can lead people to sign up for polygamy sites and get to know many people.

In general it is best if you can get to a place where you can sleep on your own. My pastor meditates on Psalm 4:8 to sleep, he used sleep meds decades ago but has not needed them since that.

 

[steve]

Tlaloc

dittos, couldnt have stated better

 

[jwh]

good thread

who am i to be the "pot" to call the kettle black?

i would guess it would be similar to alchol use & abuse, but i would be interested in what any of the bible scholor types in here say

its available at every corner in my life, have partook, but its one of the few things i have never become adicted to or abused

i am a fill in bass player in a blues, & if i
rehearse with these guys we start out sounding pretty good but these 2 guys smoke alot....so we play an hour & they take a break & smoke more, they sound worse but start talking about how much better they are sounding...then we take another break & they smoke more....ususaly the 3rd hour of rehearsal is these 2 complmenting each other on how awsome they are...3rd hour gets cut short, practice is over, i usually grab a cold one & sit down & listen to these 2 discuss tour plans, record deals, semi trucks full of gear, its pretty comical

these are 45-50 yo guys by the way

 

[sweetlissa]

There are lots of times when I can't sleep, for a variety of reasons. Maybe too much caffeine, maybe too much stress. Who knows. My family knows that if I go a couple of days without enough sleep, then I get very sad and emotional. So it is to our benefit for me to get a good night's sleep at least every few days.

When I feel a bout with insomnia coming on, first I pray. I pray about every aspect of my life, and about anyone else I may be worried about. This is a great stress reliever and often I find myself waking up in the morning, refreshed and ready to go. But there are times when even that doesn't work. Sometimes a hot soaky bath helps, or a cup of tea that is especially designed to relax. I use TAZO Calm on occassion. When even that isn't enough I take an over the counter pm pain reliever. Usually that does the trick.

A long time ago, a doctor prescribed me with some sleeping pills. When he gave them to me, he told me that they are addictive. That was enough to keep me from using them regularly.

Sleep is very restorative, but I find that when I use artificial means, the sleep isn't as refreshing.

SweetLissa

 

[lutherangirl]

I personally believe that moderation is the key to everything. In the Bible it talks about "enjoying the fruits of your labor". I think smoking pot is less addictive than alcohol. I'm not sure why one is legal and the other not without a prescription.

I found out that the reason I was so anxious and couldn't sleep at night was, because I'm B-12 deficant. I didn't even know what the doctor was talking about. Once I started talking the B-12 shots and pills the tingling in my tongue stopped, and I could sleep and wasn't anxious anymore. I don't like getting the shots or taking the pills, but my body won't produce this on it's own no matter what I eat or drink.

Maybe you have some sort of deficancy that the doctor failed to diagnois?

Michelle

 

[DrRay777]

Here is the answer to the question...

I Corinthians 6:12-20 -

12 You may say, I am allowed to do anything. But I reply, Not everything is good for you. And even though I am allowed to do anything, I must not become a slave to anything. 13 You say, Food is for the stomach, and the stomach is for food. This is true, though someday God will do away with both of them. But our bodies were not made for sexual immorality. They were made for the Lord, and the Lord cares about our bodies. 14 And God will raise our bodies from the dead by his marvelous power, just as he raised our Lord from the dead. 15 Dont you realize that your bodies are actually parts of Christ? Should a man take his body, which belongs to Christ, and join it to a prostitute? Never! 16 And dont you know that if a man joins himself to a prostitute, he becomes one body with her? For the Scriptures say, he two are united into one. 17 But the person who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.

18 Run away from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body. 19 Or dont you know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself, 20 for God bought you with a high price. So you must honor God with your body.

Holy Bible, New Living Translation, (Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, Inc.) 1996.

I Corinthians 10:23-33 -

23All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. 24Let no one seek his own, but each one the others well-being. 25Eat whatever is sold in the meat market, asking no questions for conscience sake; 26for the earth is the Lords, and all its fullness. 27If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience sake. 28But if anyone says to you, This was offered to idols, do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience sake; for the earth is the Lords, and all its fullness. 29Conscience, I say, not your own, but that of the other. For why is my liberty judged by another mans conscience? 30But if I partake with thanks, why am I evil spoken of for the food over which I give thanks? 31Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 32Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God, 33just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.

Though we are free to do anything, (within Biblical boundaries) not all things are beneficial. Smoking pot, cigarettes, etc. are not in and of themselves a sin. However, they anr not really beneficial, especially for mature Christians. I have no deisre for either, though I used to partake in years past. My advice is to follow the Word on the issue of legality and obey the law of the land unless it conflicts with the Word of God, then follow God. Consider the following scriptures...

Romans 13:1-7 -

1Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4For he is Gods minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is Gods minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience sake. 6For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are Gods ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.

I Peter 2:13-17 -

13Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lords sake, whether to the king as supreme, 14or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. 15For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men 16as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. 17Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.

As for not being able to sleep, prophets will rarely get a good nights sleep. I have no solution for that, it is part of their job so they need to get used to it and ask God to give them grace to do their job and He will. If I cannot sleep I ask God to put me to sleep and I go off in no time. Most of the time I sleep very well, though I wake in the early morning hours at Gods direction to study and get revelations from Him. Worry is not a word that should be in our vocabulary, (Phil. 4:6-7). If someone cannot sleep due to worry they are being disobedient to the Word and will suffer accordingly. They have not learned to cast their cares and will need to learn to operate in this principle. When I need to get up in the morning, I pray and ask God to wake me in time to be able to spend time with Him and do all that I need to do and still get to work on time. He will usually wake me just before the alarm goes off. If there is too much stress from the enemy and I am tired of it all, I pray and ask God for a break and He provides me one. He shuts the enemy down until I can catch my breath and then He lets the devil come at me again, so I can learn to overcome all that he can throw my way. This is part of the process of sanctification. We are supposed to learn to suffer and still be happy about it. It is part of being a Christian. The joy of the Lord is our strength and if the enemy can steal our joy, he has won and we lose. This is not acceptable to God. We must suffer and not complain, but rather praise the Lord in it all, good or bad, (I Thess. 5:16-18 and Phil. 4). This is part of becoming perfected in Christ. In reality, we do not need alcohol, weed or anything except the Holy Spirit, (Eph. 5:18).

Be blessed,

Dr. Ray

 

[DrRay777]

Well said.

Be blessed,

Ray

 

[steve]

hismom;

it is probably best to plan on pot becoming legal in a few years. i dont use, am not for it, but can see it coming. i guess that we will have to learn to live with it.

but hey, if the religious community fights harder against it than it did/does against abortion............hoooo booooy

 

[lutherangirl]

I don't smoke pot myself (decades ago, yes), but I have a friend who does to alleviate the nausea he gets due to having cancer. I guess I was thinking pot was actually more beneifcial in this way than alcohol is at all. However, if alcohol ever became illegal again what would us Lutherans do for communion? Grape juice just doesn't cut it for us Lutherans--I was raised on Manischewitz, Concord Grape.

Michelle

 

[lutherangirl]

Nikki,

We would welcome you anytime as long as you like Manischewitz--you're in!

In Christian Love,

Michelle

 

[The Duke Of Marshall]

Paul,
My opinion would be that if it is legal where you are located and you want to do it then go ahead. I know this is weird, but this is one of those subjects that I have studied for quiet some time now. A lot of the things that you hear about marijuana are just simply not true. They are nothing more than scare tactics. Studies have shown that marijuana is definitely not a gateway drug. In fact nicotine and alcohol are the top two drugs that lead into hard drugs. Not marijuana. Holland even decriminlized marijuana for a study and found that hard drug use dropped extremely low almost over night because marijuana was available legally. Marijuana is not harmful to your health such as hard drugs or even nicotine and alcohol for that matter. The only exception to that is that your immune system is lowered during the time of intoxication by marijuana, but it is not the marijuana itself that would make you sick.

Keeping marijuana illegal just because some people would abuse it is not a valid argument. I mean look at the obesity problem that we have today? What are we going to do? Criminalize food? Every since the war on drugs was started it has done nothing but help the drug market. Heroine is now 5 times cheaper and 30% more pure. Marijuana was not originally made illegal because it was harmful but rather becuase it was a more productive and more efficient way of making paper and would have devasted the tree paper industry. Again, politics is king.

Marijuana has never been proven to have negative effects on a person's body. In fact, just the opposite. Just ask any chemo patient about severe nausea and then ask another who smokes marijuana. You will see drastic differences. There has NEVER been one single proven case of a person dying from an overdose of marijuana like you find with hard drugs and even the perfectly legal alcohol.

I definitely think that marijuana should be legalized. Getting it on the streets now you can not be assured that it is not laced with something else. Legalizing it would regulate it and give the government some more tax money to innappropriately waste. Dr Ray did a good job posting the scriptures so you can see that all natural marijuana is not a sin. All in moderation though. Alcohol is not a sin, but drunkenness IS. Food is not a sin but gluttony IS. Just know where your heart is in the matter and make sure it is in the right place.

Personally I think that we should legalize ALL illegal drugs if they would not have any adverse effects on the non-users. And now you ask, Why?!?! Well, we have a stupidity problem nowadays so if we legalize ALL illegal drugs(if we could insure the safety of non-users) along with removing warning labels, mandatory seat belt laws, mandatory helmet laws, etc then the stupidity problem would eventually and quickly correct itself.

But to answer your question, no, there is nothing wrong with using marijuana as long as it is legal in your area.

 

[Melanie]

Personally I think that we should legalize ALL illegal drugs if they would not have any adverse effects on the non-users. And now you ask, Why?!?! Well, we have a stupidity problem nowadays so if we legalize ALL illegal drugs(if we could insure the safety of non-users) along with removing warning labels, mandatory seat belt laws, mandatory helmet laws, etc then the stupidity problem would eventually and quickly correct itself.

LOL! Darwin Awards! Let all the stupid people remove themselves from the gene pool.

I have to agree with most of the comments above. If it's legal and natural... go for it if thats what you want to do. However another consideration is that partaking in illegal activities could put you at risk of fines or imprisonment which may have a very detrimental effect on your family. So... i think making sure that we do nothing that will hinder our ability to take care of our responsibilities is important.
While it's true you can't really overdose on pot. Smoking any substance will have a detrimental effect on your lungs and may trigger reactions such as asthma which could be life threatening. The lungs can clean and regenerate though...as long as they get a sufficient break between beatings. You're probably better off making some cookies...

Yeah i tried it... it make me laugh so much i hypo ventilated, then threw up and passed out... never really had the urge to repeat the experience.

 

[Mark C]

Ok so what you are saying we should make food ILLEGAL because people abuse it...
...Just reading those QUICK facts, it is easy to see...

I haven't weighed in yet on this, but your comment helps clarify where I come from on the issue, Nikki.

Those of us who obey God don't NEED anything to be "illegal" in order to not do it (OR to teach our children properly)...
and those who DON'T obey God, or care what He says, now tend to make the 'law' anyway, as well as ignore Him in that process.


Whether something is "harmful" is yet another example of a Satanic "bait-and-switch" (which I think probably was DoM's point). Examples of the Big Lie abound...
after all, we live in a land where "evil is called good" and vice-versa, whether it's licensing of 'marriage' that God calls abomination and punishes with disease and death, or prohibitions on protecting your own family from murder or rape with weapons that once-free people are now often prohibited (or restricted by license) from having. And don't forget that claims about the "harm" of patriarchal marriage abound, even though most of us now see through that particular distortion, and the guilt-by-association.

One of the big problems with "democracy" (which, of course, is a term never used in ANY of our founding documents - but that's another, albeit related issue) is that men have always tended to think they can do a better job of writing the "law" than God did. They have never yet been right.



Blessings in Him,

Mark

 

[Melanie]

Ok so what you are saying we should make food ILLEGAL because people abuse it...How about people that starve themselves?? Isn’t food already “illegal” to them? That is the worst comparison I have ever read. (Sorry) Food and Marijuana are not the same. You NEED to food to survive; you do NOT need Pot to relax.

Yes we need food to survive but we don't need chocolate, crisps and fat soaked hamburgers. It's a perfect comparison because pot is a plant, and just like foods some are good for us and some aren't. Unlike other drugs marijuana needs no processing to be ingested, you can just chew the leaves right off the bush. Making one of Gods creations illegal because some people cannot make the right choices is silly. And if you are going to that...you may as well ban burgers too because folks make bad (and deadly...think heart disease!) food choices everyday. (Which i think was Todd's point.)

I don't think anyone is saying that pot is awesome, merely that if used responsibly...it's not sinful.

 

[The Duke Of Marshall]

(Sorry) Food and Marijuana are not the same.

No, food and marijuana are not EXACTLY the same, but there is still the same common factor: people. People are the ones who misuse and abuse anything and everything and studies and reports show that food abuse is a lot more dangerous than marijuana abuse.

I guess where my strong feelings against Pot come from a friend who was killed in a head on collusion with a person who was HIGH ON POT! Ask her family, it is has no lasting effects when they buried their daughter in the ground?

I am sorry for your loss and we can see why you might have such strong feelings. The truth of the matter is that you can find tragic situations such as this with just about everything that is abused. My grandfather and grandmother died from smoking cigarettes and my dad most likely will as well, but I still support people's right to use tobacco. My aunt died from melanoma cancer, but I still support people's right to tanning beds and sunbathing. Since we are on food let us continue with that. How many families have come under financial stress from obesity due to having to keep up with diabetes treatments, food addiction, heart disease, or simply having to purchase two airplane tickets? How many families have come under emotional duress over seeing another family member starve themselves due to anorexia/bulemia? Food abuse has lasting effects on families as well and is so much more rampant than marijuana. I myself have strong feelings now about marijuana, but it is strong feelings to educate people to the truth instead of the myths and lies that are put forth. I do not promote that everyone should use marijuana, but rather that they should realize the actual facts about it and have the right to choose for themselves. I myself choose not to partake, but I realize that if I did and if others did that it is not the wife beating, brain damaging, cancer causing demon that many people make it out to be.
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/mis ... riving.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zou4F00Ic

Last time I checked no innocent person was killed because of a hamburger.

Lots of people are killed from hamburgers. In fact according to http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30#item1 poor diet and physical inactivity are right behind tobacco use whereas there has never been one confirmed case of someone dying directly from using marijuana. Obesity, high cholesterol, diabetes due to obesity, heart disease, etc are WAAYY more rampant and deadlier than marijuana ever thought about being.

Yes, it is a gateway drug.

Well,.....actually.........
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5490
http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/library/mjgate.htm
http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/study-sa ... 12116.html

As for studies, every medical website shows long term effects of pot.

http://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/ ... oesnt-kill
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30
http://dawninfo.samhsa.gov/pubs/mepubs/default.asp

the lungs (In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50 to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke which is more likely to cause cancer)

That is interesting seeing as how most of the harmful effects of tobacco comes from the additives that are added to tobacco during production and marijuana is all natural. Albeit natural tobacco is not completely harmless though. Where did you copy that from?

Also, because YOU might be more discipline when it comes to life’s little pleasures, it does not mean your neighbor will. But with legalizing drugs, it now becomes your problem with those drugs become available to your children and/or kills your children. The ONLY way to ensure the safety of American’s who prefer to stay drug free, is to NOT have accessible to everyone.

See above links......^

 

[The Duke Of Marshall]

You're probably better off making some cookies...

mmmmmmmmmmm,.....cookies!!

 

[kmeltonlnc]

someone using something irresponsibly is no reason to ban it's use. the fact that some people kill others with knives is no reason to outlaw the use of knives. as far as using something you don't agree with, well freedom means that some people are gonna do things you don't like. driving cars kills thousands of people every year and yet i don't think the answer is to ban them, but to use them, if you choose (i don't) responsibly. being of a libertarian bent, i don't like being told what to do and don't wish to tell others what they should do. as for me and my house, we will serve the lord. but i also can't think of why pot would be more sinful to inbibe than wine.

 

[kmeltonlnc]

in proofing after posting i wish to clarify that i do choose to use automobiles. :lol:

 

[Paul not the apostle]

Thanks for all the input. I have been doing some research over the last few days while soaking in these responses. I do feel like the public has been mislead and deceived about what marijuana is and does. I do not trust ANY government site or the info that comes from those sites. This is the same government that produced "Hemp for Victory" during the world wars to promote hemp and also "Reefer Madness" to brainwash the public against hemp. Weird.

Through this research I am also developing a mini-fascination with industrial hemp and its uses. Food, diesel fuel, textiles, even plywood. I might even use some hempboard in the cabinets for our new kitchen. It is interesting to see that industrial hemp is a big NO-NO in the U.S. even though it contains no THC. Government conspiracy to maintain BIG OIL and PAPER? And COTTON? I think so.

I also find it interesting that it is a plant that God put on the earth and that it is outlawed by the government. A plant? Seriously. Kind of like plural marriage. God put it on the earth for our good and to use at our discretion, and the "MAN" is telling us that we can't have it because of some persons that abuse it. God gives us good things. My kids are always asking why God made bees that sting, or spiders that bite, or stuff related to why God made every little thing that we come in contact with. I am not saying that Gen. 1:29 is the license to smoke pot, but hemp seed does have the highest nutritional value of any seed according to what I am finding out. It made me think of pot and what it's purpose is or was in God's eyes. I think that we should use the good parts and discard the bad ones(by burning them and standing downwind when we do). And my Brother in the Lord in California mentioned having a permit for medicinal marijuana and that is why I posted the original question.

I thing that I do not understand how legalizing pot will lead to more crime. Unless it is my friends raiding my pantry into emptiness when they get the munchies. I think that by default if there are 800,000 persons in jail for just being caught possessing marijuana, then at least that crime rate would drop to ZERO if it were not a crime. I think that legalizing it would put most growers and traffickers out of business by driving the price down and reducing street demand.

On a lighter note, I do believe that marijuana is a gateway drug. I am convinced by solid history and truth that if I smoke, but don't inhale, I will become the President of the United States of America or at least a prestigious Senator. If I do inhale, then I will win lots of Gold Medals in the Olympics.