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The American State Religion

Now that is a crock! I don't go out and buy a McRib sandwich, in order to keep the poor farmer in business! I could care less about whether he stays in business or not! I get my McRib because I like the taste, and I can afford the pork (not a big fan of pork per se, but I do like the McRib) that was produced on a farm. I could care less which farm produced it. The monopoly came along and was able to produce it at a lower cost than these people you know, because of the innovations that the monopoly possessed and utilized which reduced their cost of operations, not because they hoped to run farmers out of business and then jack up the cost on me, the consumer. I don't exist in order to pay the farmer's bills. The farmer exists in order to get food to the meat packing plant, so that the grocery store can get the packed meat and put it on display, so that we, the consumer can put food on the table for our families. If the monopoly decides to jack up the price after they run the competition out of business, new competition will spring up. It is up to the farmer to plan properly for fluctuating prices, and to diversify, so that they don't put the entirety of their commodity eggs into one proverbial basket. Successful farmers do this. Unsuccessful farmers find out the hard way, that failure to plan properly, is no different than planning to fail.

Then you are selfish, caring nothing for the good of the country or other people but only your own pocketbook and misguided worship of the market.

"not because they hoped to run farmers out of business" No that is exactly what they planned to do and did. They intentionally held the price of hogs below the cost of production until the independent family farms were broken. All in violation of the law.

There was no way to plan out of this. The power of corporate vertical integration is too big. You're just blaming the victims. Thousands of hardworking families lost their livelihood. There is no diversifying out of this. They did this to the chicken producers, then the pork producers, now the dairy producers and soon the beef producers. Grain prices too are suppressed. And you justify the destruction of thousands of families on saving yourself a few pennies at McDonalds! In the end corporate monoliths will have a monopoly on the entire food system and land base and we all, farmers and consumers alike will be slaves to the corporations.
 
The tribe is the natural collective to deal with such larger-scale issues. So still the family, just on a larger scale.

How big is the tribe? I take it you see this as something smaller than the nation? How are the tribes to relate to each other?
 
Then you are selfish, caring nothing for the good of the country or other people but only your own pocketbook and misguided worship of the market.

Yet that's the reality for most people in the world. And it's not that they are 'selfish' but that they don't feel an obligation to subsidize business models that are eclipsed by economies of scale.

I have to deal with this reality and I've seen ups and downs with my egg business. Sometimes my buyers move off to buying cheaper eggs from distant suppliers and as I've seen that works for a while and then the reality of things like winter and Wuhan Flu hit and now distant supplier becomes unreliable and they start delivering unusable frozen eggs. And when they come back to me I make them pay my new prices and not the original price I had guaranteed to them.

I also have people ask me to make custom quilts for them and most of them won't pay the money I charge for something that's going to take me four or five months to complete.

But then if you want a custom quilt with each square hand embroidered, you want hand-stuffed cotton batting, you want the edges weighted so the quilt drapes beautifully on a bed, and you want it hand stitched and you're willing to pay me $5000 or more for an heirloom then I'm your gal because you won't get this kind of thing on Amazon or at Wal Mart.

But I also have the sense not to try to compete with the low end of the quilt market. Because I can't.

And while I prefer to support small businesses the reality is that my gasoline does not come from a corner store, the jeans we wear are not made locally, my laundry detergent is not 'artisan' made because I do at least four loads of laundry every day and could not afford artisan made detergent.

It doesn't make me selfish but it would make me foolish if I insisted on my family sacrificing needs and comforts in order to keep someone in business whose business model is obsolete.

For instance, we own horses but we don't own horse drawn wagons because pick up trucks and flatbeds do that work so much faster, easier, and cheaper. The plight of the people who make horse drawn wagons and my lack of interest in their plight does not make me selfish.

And we're a small ranch. We used to run cattle but the profit margin was so thin it was a waste of time. So now we run bison and our costs are lower and the profits are higher. We're still running a ranch but we had to change with the reality of the market and reality is we cannot sell cattle and make a profit when the cattle market is dominated by Argentina and Brazil.

And I would never call you selfish because you prefer to pay $8.99 per pound for rib eye instead of $21.99 per pound to help keep us in the cattle business.

However, I will recommend that you try a bison rib eye and discover what a rich and amazing flavor it has! ;)
 
Then you are selfish, caring nothing for the good of the country or other people but only your own pocketbook and misguided worship of the market.

"not because they hoped to run farmers out of business" No that is exactly what they planned to do and did. They intentionally held the price of hogs below the cost of production until the independent family farms were broken. All in violation of the law.

There was no way to plan out of this. The power of corporate vertical integration is too big. You're just blaming the victims. Thousands of hardworking families lost their livelihood. There is no diversifying out of this. They did this to the chicken producers, then the pork producers, now the dairy producers and soon the beef producers. Grain prices too are suppressed. And you justify the destruction of thousands of families on saving yourself a few pennies at McDonalds! In the end corporate monoliths will have a monopoly on the entire food system and land base and we all, farmers and consumers alike will be slaves to the corporations.
You are really starting to sound like a progressive leftist here! I am not any more selfish than anybody else. I give what I can to those who are in need, when I am able to do so. If you want to help your neighbor in need, there is nothing stopping you from doing so. If you want to use the arm of the government to make other people help your neighbors in need, that is where most of us object.

If the monopoly were engaging in predatory pricing as you suggest, they are engaging in sloppy business practices. You are not very specific in what laws they violated, but either these monopolies are operating at a loss, in order to drive out competition, or they have found a cheaper way to produce the goods that the American consumer wants. If the former is true, and they are operating at a loss, they will pay the price when they try to recoup their losses by jacking up the price, as competitors will come along who will produce the same goods at a cheaper price. That is why we can be assured that the idea of predatory pricing is a myth, as was clearly spelled out in that video that I posted.

Preventing those monopolies from producing goods at a lower cost, is where the government puts their thumb on the scale, and it is harmful to society as it halts progress. It's the toothpaste factory analogy here. The factory modernized and it threw Mr. Bucket out of a job. Sorry Mr. Bucket, but we got machines now that can screw caps onto the tubes of toothpaste! Guess what! Other factories are going to do the same thing if they want to stay in business. That provides jobs for the machine manufacturers and for those who are willing to learn a new trade in repairing the machines when they break down. That is how America emerged from being an agricultural based society, to an industrialized nation.

In the early 1900s, somebody in Congress decided that we need to get America back on the rails, so they started this thing called Amtrak. It's pretty cool. I have been to a museum that had a passenger car. I see the train rolling down the track from time to time. I have never actually used Amtrak though. My grandmother used it a few times, because she was afraid to fly. Here's the thing... Most Americans will never use that rail, but we have to pay for it. Why? Somebody convinced our great grandparents to go along with it, and told them they don't have to pay for it themselves. The government can just sell bonds. Great! Now I have to pay for those bonds, and it shows up in my paycheck twice a month in that section called FICA. Thanks a lot great-grandparents! America doesn't need to be on the rails. We've got highways! We have privately owned airlines! We shouldn't have to pay an engineer to transport people from place to place, unless those people decide of their own free will to board a train. If not enough people care to travel by rail to make it profitable, why should we have to fund it? When I board a plane, the pilot gets his salary out of the ticket price. Airlines can charge the price they need to charge to make it profitable, because there is demand for that service.

I'm sorry your friends went out of business, but there simply wasn't enough demand for what they were providing, when someone else was able to come along and provide the same product at a lower cost. When I buy meat at the grocery store, I don't sit there and contemplate how that will help your friends stay in business. When you decide you want to buy equipment for your farm, you don't sit there and contemplate how if you pay more for XYZ tractor, it will help keep that small company that made that tractor in business, when you could get the same tractor from John Deere for less money. When you buy fencing equipment, do you look at keeping local fence company in business, or are you more concerned that if you spend too much to get the same quality fence, it could jeopardize keeping your farm afloat? What factors into your decision to buy feed or seed? You can choose to make an emotional decision, or you can make savvy business decisions. I recommend you make charitable contributions for those in need, and make wise business decisions when it comes to taking care of your business and your household, but that is just my "selfish" idea of how to run things. You operate your business as charitably as you see fit.

Here is another thought! Form a cooperative of farmers who unite to have a stronger collection of farms, so that when one of them is facing hard times, the others are able to keep them afloat. In doing so, you will be making the proverbial string longer, but you may have to occasionally get rid of dead weight, if a farmer in the cooperative, decides not to pull his load, for reasons besides illness.
 
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Everyone in a decentralized way selfishly looking out for what is best for hirself and hir family/tribe/community is the essence of freedom and is entirely compatible with scripture.

I just want to add in here that monopolies and trusts are the antithesis of the preservation of freedom. We have allowed so many high-tech monopolies and trusts to take over our world because we have voted with our feet to reward them for diminishing our freedoms, and we can't seem to stop electing people to Congress who will take money from them in exchange for bellowing on the Senate floor while strategically voting to prevent those monopolies from being reined in (can you say Lindsey Graham or Mike Lee?).
 
However, I will recommend that you try a bison rib eye and discover what a rich and amazing flavor it has! ;)
Making me hungry there. However for the sake of my bank account, I will have to wait until either the price goes down a bit, or I strike it rich, like perhaps with an oil well investment or something of that nature. It sure would be nice though if the Estancia Brazilian Steakhouse would add bison to their buffet, for the few times I am able to splurge and fork over $50 for the best all you can eat dinner I've ever had!
 
Everyone in a decentralized way selfishly looking out for what is best for hirself and hir family/tribe/community is the essence of freedom and is entirely compatible with scripture.

I just want to add in here that monopolies and trusts are the antithesis of the preservation of freedom. We have allowed so many high-tech monopolies and trusts to take over our world because we have voted with our feet to reward them for diminishing our freedoms, and we can't seem to stop electing people to Congress who will take money from them in exchange for bellowing on the Senate floor while strategically voting to prevent those monopolies from being reined in (can you say Lindsey Graham or Mike Lee?).
In the hearings on big tech going on right now, I hear lots of great questions coming from senators, but I fear it will all come to naught after they get their donation checks from these same companies and don't do a damn thing about the tech monopolies and spying/tracking of users.
 
In the hearings on big tech going on right now, I hear lots of great questions coming from senators, but I fear it will all come to naught after they get their donation checks from these same companies and don't do a damn thing about the tech monopolies and spying/tracking of users.
Well, you might see something from the Senate, but with the party in power that currently controls the House, being the beneficiaries of Big Tech's suppression, I don't think Nancy will need any donations to motivate her to squash it in the House.
 
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Well, you might see something from the Senate, but with the party in power that currently controls the House, being the beneficiaries of Big Tech's suppression, I don't think Nancy will need any donations to motivate her to squash it in the House.
I'll have to check up on things, but is antitrust a whole congressional thing, or is the Senate charged with that? I presume the Senate is taking point because tje Repubs control that house.

Edit: It's the DOJ
 
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I'll have to check up on things, but is antitrust a whole congressional thing, or is the Senate charged with that? I presume the Senate is taking point because tje Repubs control that house.

Edit: It's the DOJ

But the DOJ is unlikely to have the will to confront it without cover from both the executive branch and at least one part of the legislative.
 
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