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Supporting a Deadbeat

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DeathIsNotTheEnd

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Similar to the other thread I posted, but...

Have any of you dealt with this? Biblically speaking what do you think?

Essentially I'm talking about a prodigal-son type case. Where a child or relative (maybe a sibling?) has failed to secure a job and does nothing but sit around and stuff, who then begs, for lack of a better word, housing and support from family.

I've seen this happen multiple ways. I have a friend who's sibling lives with their parents, doesn't work, doesn't do anything, just sits around watching tv. They're in their late 20's, already graduated college. I have another friend who's best friend got kicked out of their house by their parents for the same reason, and now they are living 'sharing' an apartment with my friend, who is paying 100% of the rent and utilities costs and paying for this friend's food, as they have no income, while they just sit around the apartment all day or go out and party with other friends.

A part of me says I'd kick them outta there! No way in hell am I supporting such a person.
The other part of me says I feel like maybe Jesus supports us at times... how does one know when to 'help' and when to let them learn a life lesson? Hmmm...
 
I have no problem giving someone a hand to reach for to pull themselves up. There comes a point if they're just relying on you to hold them up you need to let go. You end up making them reliant on you and unable or unwilling to do for themselves.
 
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Asforme&myhouse said:
If a man will not work, he shouldn’t eat
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frederick said:
@Asforme&my house has got it nailed biblically. No need to compromise on that when those capable of work refuse to do so. Shalom
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2 Thessalonians 3:7-15

For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, for we did not behave inappropriately among you. And we did not eat anyone’s bread without paying for it, but worked night and day with labor and hardship, so as not to burden any of you. It wasn’t that we had no right, but rather to offer ourselves as an example for you to imitate.

For even when we were with you, we would give you this order: if anyone will not work, neither shall he eat. For we hear that some among you are behaving irresponsibly—not busy, but busybodies. Now such people we command and urge in the Lord Messiah Yeshua to work in a quiet demeanor, so they may eat their own bread. But as for you, brothers, do not grow weary of doing good. If anyone does not obey our message in this letter, take special note of him and do not associate with him, so that he may be put to shame. Yet do not consider him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.

Here's the far side of that leads. According to Vladimir Lenin, "He who does not work shall not eat" is a necessary principle under socialism, the preliminary phase of the evolution towards communist society.

But as for you, brothers, do not grow weary of doing good this is often over looked. 2 Thessalonians 3 is not an excuse to let people starve if their a deadbeat. Cut off fellowship with them, so when they come to you with hand out its as a beggar not as a neighbor or friend in need. Tell them what they need to here. That they need to start providing for themselves. Point them to the example set. Don't let them starve. There is no instruction to cloth them, house them, pay their cell phone bill, or give them money.
 
Few words and to the point;

Asforme&myhouse said:
If a man will not work, he shouldn’t eat
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Our society has hurt us tremendously in this area. Our young think they should be given things instead of working for them.

Food stamps anyone? Does it help society? I was in a bind over twenty years ago and got food stamps. In about 6 months we canceled the food stamps cause I got out of that bind. The food stamp office was shocked. No one ever got off food stamps.

There is an old saying, ‘Pride cometh before the fall’. But, there is a different kind of pride. Pride in self, Something that many today seem to have no concept in.

How do we bring that back?
 
Kevin said:
I have no problem giving someone a hand to reach for to pull themselves up. There comes a point if they're just relying on you to hold them up you need to let go. You end up making them reliant on you and unable or willing to do for themselves.
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Agreed. “Will not work” is the operable phrase. We are to remember the poor and help our brother in need, but if he is hungry because he refuses to work, he isn’t poor and needy, he’s lazy. Big difference. Feeding a lazy man isn’t helping him.
 
Also if you help a person who is unwilling to work, you may contribute to mental instability. The people I have seen go from relatively normal socially to borderline schizophrenic were all capable of work, then they got lazy and refused to work then people started supporting them and within a couple years they were paranoid and extremely unreasonable. I have seen this 3 times now (all men). So I know it's just my take but it seems to me that it's very bad for a persons mental health to be supported in their laziness.
 
Paulsen said:
Also if you help a person who is unwilling to work, you may contribute to mental instability. The people I have seen go from relatively normal socially to borderline schizophrenic were all capable of work, then they got lazy and refused to work then people started supporting them and within a couple years they were paranoid and extremely unreasonable. I have seen this 3 times now (all men). So I know it's just my take but it seems to me that it's very bad for a persons mental health to be supported in their laziness.
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Romans 7:25
Thanks be to Elohim—it is through Messiah Yeshua our Lord! So then, with my mind I myself serve the Torah of Elohim; but with my flesh, I serve the law of sin.

Psalm 107:12
So he humbled their hearts by hard labor; when they stumbled, no one came to their aid.

Proverbs 14:23 ​
In all work there is profit, but mere talk produces only poverty.​

Working keeps us occupied and focused, so our minds don't wander into the realm of fantasy. It should bring us to the point of exhaustion, so were focused on trying to complete the task. Its at these times we're suppose to press into Adonai. When we press into Adonai then we're focus on Him. A focused mind remains sharp, aware, beneficial, profitable and, a wandering mind dulls, delves into fantasy, worldly distractions and is unprofitable.
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
Agreed. “Will not work” is the operable phrase. We are to remember the poor and help our brother in need, but if he is hungry because he refuses to work, he isn’t poor and needy, he’s lazy. Big difference. Feeding a lazy man isn’t helping him.
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There is another side to this coin though. Having been in churches that actually tried to help the poor, I've seen as many men falsely labeled deadbeat as actually were.

Some people are willing to work and work hard, but life conspires to make them poor. They'll get help from the church, for a time, but if they don't show a willingness to go on welfare or go into debt and keep up with the Joneses suddenly they become an anathema.

Frankly, most of the church hates the poor. Poverty is one of the biggest sins you can commit in this country and Christians are not immune to that.

For those Christians who even do help the poor, it is minimal steps, just enough to make themselves feel good, but if the poor man doesn't cowtow to what decisions the Christian thinks he should make suddenly he's not worthy of help.
 
rockfox said:
There is another side to this coin though. Having been in churches that actually tried to help the poor, I've seen as many men falsely labeled deadbeat as actually were.

Some people are willing to work and work hard, but life conspires to make them poor. They'll get help from the church, for a time, but if they don't show a willingness to go on welfare or go into debt and keep up with the Joneses suddenly they become an anathema.

Frankly, most of the church hates the poor. Poverty is one of the biggest sins you can commit in this country and Christians are not immune to that.

For those Christians who even do help the poor, it is minimal steps, just enough to make themselves feel good, but if the poor man doesn't cowtow to what decisions the Christian thinks he should make suddenly he's not worthy of help.
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I'm talking about a 27 year old who has had a single part-time job since college that they quit, where they now sit around watching tv and playing videogames all day, and go out to friends' hosted parties at night. They don't search for work, they don't really help around the house, etc. A deadbeat.
 
rockfox said:
There is another side to this coin though. Having been in churches that actually tried to help the poor, I've seen as many men falsely labeled deadbeat as actually were.

Some people are willing to work and work hard, but life conspires to make them poor. They'll get help from the church, for a time, but if they don't show a willingness to go on welfare or go into debt and keep up with the Joneses suddenly they become an anathema.

Frankly, most of the church hates the poor. Poverty is one of the biggest sins you can commit in this country and Christians are not immune to that.

For those Christians who even do help the poor, it is minimal steps, just enough to make themselves feel good, but if the poor man doesn't cowtow to what decisions the Christian thinks he should make suddenly he's not worthy of help.
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Yeah, that would definitely be wrong. I have to say though, I have never had that experience in any church i have been to, and I’ve been to quite a few. I have actually seen quite the opposite. I was poor (first world poor) for quite a while. My dad was the hardest working man I have ever known, but when I was was around 12 years old my dad lost his well paying job because his employer tried to sexually assault my mother. She was able to escape, but my parents broke all contact with that man and his family. He was a very wealthy man and well connected and pulled the strings he could to keep my dad from being able to get work. Long story short, we barely scraped by during my teen years and I left home at 16. I was poor for a long time, but never did I experience the treatment you’re refering to. I didn’t feel looked down on or disrespected. Not saying it doesn’t happen, just that I’ve never seen it.
 
EternalDreamer said:
I'm talking about a 27 year old who has had a single part-time job since college that they quit, where they now sit around watching tv and playing videogames all day, and go out to friends' hosted parties at night. They don't search for work, they don't really help around the house, etc. A deadbeat.
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His family convinced him to rack up debt in college and now has a useless degree because the government started importing H1B visa's and now he is persona non-grata in his industry; all white men are effectively blackballed. He can't get work in the blue-collar trades that don't want a resume because they are biased against his generation. He can't even get considered for a service job without lying, which he won't do, because he is concidered over-qualified by virtue of his degree and all employers assume he'll leave at first chance. He got a part time job at one point but quit because the girls at work found him weird and reported him to HR for harassment because he asked one out on a date. Quitting was the only way to avoid the black mark of being fired for harrassment; he just has to let everyone think he was lazy and quit. He tried for a long time to find another job but the constant rejection made him depressed and suicidal so now he just hangs out with his friends and tries not to think about it lest he feel tempted to end it all. They're the only thing that brings him joy in life, all the people at church who used to think the world of him now think he's a deadbeat and won't talk to him. He tried to help around the house but mom just berated him constantly because he never did anything right.

There is two sides to every story. Is your particular case a deadbeat? Maybe. Or maybe not. I've seen enough delusional Christians to not rush to judgement without hearing both sides. There is no sympathy for young men today. None at all.

Yes, he who doesn't work shouldn't eat. But in OT Israel a guy could glean for food, literally working very hard for food. Now, you have to beg and plead the government or the church. And he didn't have to enslave himself to a banker, requiring a job, just to get a roof over his head and a place to grow food.
 
EternalDreamer said:
I'm talking about a 27 year old who has had a single part-time job since college that they quit, where they now sit around watching tv and playing videogames all day, and go out to friends' hosted parties at night. They don't search for work, they don't really help around the house, etc. A deadbeat.
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MEPS

;). :D
 
Sometimes people genuinely do need help, often because of circumstances outside of their control, or because they spiraled downhill and now need to bring themselves back up again. It really doesn't take long to figure out if they're actually wanting to help themselves or if they're even grateful for your help at all.
We had some people stay with us for just over a week. It was long enough to realise they weren't actually interested in pulling themselves up at all, or even helping around the house etc. In the 24 hours after they left I found out how they spent money and discovered why they were never going to actually have any available to them. We haven't helped them since, even though we've been asked, and even tried to make me feel guilty about it and like I'd promised something I hadn't.
It shouldn't take years of someone living on your couch to figure it out.
 
rockfox said:
His family convinced him to rack up debt in college and now has a useless degree because the government started importing H1B visa's and now he is persona non-grata in his industry; all white men are effectively blackballed. He can't get work in the blue-collar trades that don't want a resume because they are biased against his generation. He can't even get considered for a service job without lying, which he won't do, because he is concidered over-qualified by virtue of his degree and all employers assume he'll leave at first chance. He got a part time job at one point but quit because the girls at work found him weird and reported him to HR for harassment because he asked one out on a date. Quitting was the only way to avoid the black mark of being fired for harrassment; he just has to let everyone think he was lazy and quit. He tried for a long time to find another job but the constant rejection made him depressed and suicidal so now he just hangs out with his friends and tries not to think about it lest he feel tempted to end it all. They're the only thing that brings him joy in life, all the people at church who used to think the world of him now think he's a deadbeat and won't talk to him. He tried to help around the house but mom just berated him constantly because he never did anything right.

There is two sides to every story. Is your particular case a deadbeat? Maybe. Or maybe not. I've seen enough delusional Christians to not rush to judgement without hearing both sides. There is no sympathy for young men today. None at all.

Yes, he who doesn't work shouldn't eat. But in OT Israel a guy could glean for food, literally working very hard for food. Now, you have to beg and plead the government or the church. And he didn't have to enslave himself to a banker, requiring a job, just to get a roof over his head and a place to grow food.
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Starting a business might be his only option.

But wait, there’s always truck driving.
 
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@steve I need a 'double like' button. Thought to say that, then didn't. But, for sure... seek the Father and make your place....
 
I could tell you a story, but I won’t write it because it is way too long and complicated.
Highlights:
When he finally got a job, he got canned for not showing up for two days during his second week.
He has cost us over $3000 in cash.
It ended with him holding a gun to Karin’s head and forcing her to drive him to where he wanted to go......except that it hasn’t ended.
Are we having fun yet? Redefine fun and we are all over it. :)
 
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