I think this is a false assumption. How would you back up this 'never' statement?
Ezekiel 36 and 37 describe who is in the Kingdom and I noticed yesterday that the first half of Ezekiel 47 matches the first part of Revelation 22.
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Rapture Beliefs
- Thread starter AlexaH
- Start date
Post tribulation, pre 7 years wrath.
@Jim an Apostle. I see you are fairly well schooled in the belief I grew up with. I'm not sure if you also know the history of that belief.
Prior to 1830, there is no document on record laying out pre-trib dispensationalism. No mention of a 7 year great tribulation period with a preceding rapture of believers. John Nelson Darby with input from some others was the first to organize that view into a similar fashion as we see it today. Some years ago a friend loaned me a book which in large part was J N Darby's own account in his own words of how he came to put pre-trib distp together. A fair bit of it came from his listening to a teenage Scottish girl who was prophesying and speaking in tongues. Yes, it is interesting where that view came from and that it did not exist before 1830, but the counter argument I grew up on was "It doesn't matter how and when it came into history - what the word says is what matters". Yes of course. But saying that proves nothing. That argument is believed by opposing arguers of pretty much every view out there and in itself is not enough to convince many who oppose.
It is especially interesting to note some things the word of God does not say, but pre-trib dispensationalism does. The word "rapture" is not in the Bible. According to pre-trib dispensationalism, the "Great Tribulation" is supposedly seven years long. However, the word "seven" does not appear in any Biblical passage with the word "tribulation", nor does it appear with the word "years" except regarding the prophetess Anna (seven years from her virginity etc: Luke 2:36). The Bible does not say anything about a 7 year time period called "the tribulation" and have it written that that is the the wrath of God. It does not say anything about a 7 year time period called "the tribulation" and have it written that that is the wrath of Satan. It does not say anything about a 7 year time period called "the tribulation" and have it written that that is the wrath of man. For that matter, there is no passage that contains both of the words "tribulation" and "wrath". The Bible does not mention anything called a "tribulation" with years mentioned in which Israel will be driven back to God. Notably, the word "tribulation" and "Israel" do not appear together in any biblical passage. No time period called "The Tribulation" or "The Great Tribulation" is even once found in a passage indicating Jews or Israel will be driven, as you said, "back to Jesus". There is no passage using the word "tribulation" that says God's people will be raptured away / taken away / caught away in advance and consequently, His people will not have to deal with the tribulation that is foretold. There is no passage with it written that a "rapture" will (as pre-trib disp. says) "secretly" take God's people away before a period of years of tribulation for people remaining.
All the above plus more that I don't have time to write about are necessary props for a pre-trib dispensational view to hold together. Without cobbling together things that God did not put together in His word, and without using a great deal of eisegesis, and without using extrapolation plus a hefty dose of assumption overlaid on the actual words written - a pre-trib rapture theory then cannot stand as the truth. It really falls apart if you have to stay with only what is written as it is written - not add anything additional or leave anything out. I challenge anyone to prove a pre-trib dispensationalist rapture while strictly adhering to Proverbs 30 verse 6 when explaining prophetic passages. I submit that that is an impossible task. For pre-trib disp theory to have substance, it must have words brought into passages and applied where God never said them.
The composition of pre-trib dispensationalism reminds me of a meme I saw last year in this forum...
"It's made with bits and pieces of REAL scripture so you know it's good".
I would add, pre-trib disp has created a lot of terms and jargon that gives me no confidence that such words are living and powerful and sharp and have encouragement for me to live by them is if they proceeded out of the mouth of God. My approach is - and this has helped me a lot - If it's not written in the Bible - I treat it like it's not written in the Bible.
@Jim an Apostle, I do hope you will experience the deliverance I experienced from depending on words that did not proceed out of the mouth of God and instead, depend only on words just as they proceeded out of His mouth - not more, not less. What proceeded out of His mouth simply cannot be improved or at all better understood by employing the methods necessary to formulate a pre-trib rapture theory.
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I have a major problem with the 7 year tribulation. I don’t see it being supported at all. The each day of the missing 70th week of Daniel being blown up to one year seems very forced to me.
@Daughter_Of_The_King may have more to say on the detail, but I just wanted to point out that her position is a rational intermediate position. It's where you take the standard prophecy interpretation you've been taught in church (rapture, tribulation, God's wrath), realise that the tribulation is for the testing of the church, so do the obvious simple correction to the timeline - assume the rapture is after the tribulation. It's a good position in my mind because it means you will prepare for tribulation. Now, many further details might be wrong - the tribulation may be different to what you thought, the rapture mightn't exist or might be completely different, timeframes might be completely out, and so forth. But it's an opinion that means you will prepare for trials as we are instructed to, so it's a good opinion to hold.
I’m mostly interested in the 7 years. The whole idea I’m fine with, may even agree with.