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Rapture Beliefs

A

AlexaH

Member
Female
So not sure where to actually put this but with all the crazy things going on in the world; I am curious from a scriptural standpoint as to what people believe concerning the Tribulation and Rapture. I guess the biggest is do you believe in Pre-Tribulation, Mid-Tribulation or a Post-Tribulation Rapture? And Why?
I tend to Stand on Pre-Tribulation Rapture due to the clear evidence that Revelation 7 and on seem to be speaking to Jews not Gentiles.
 
I am fully convinced that the rapture (as its commonly understood) is a made up event. We are looking for the Kingdom to be restored literally here on earth through a series of terrible events and there is no clear evidence from scripture that we will be absent for those events only to return at the end of them.
 
The Revolting Man said:
I’m not even sure I believe in the rapture anymore.
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never did and here's why:

Mattre 24
1Now when Yeshua went out and was going away from the Temple, His disciples came up to point out to Him the Temple buildings.
2“Don’t you see all these?” He responded to them. “Amen, I tell you, not one stone will be left here on top of another—every one will be torn down!”
3As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen? What will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”
4Yeshua answered them, “Be careful that no one leads you astray!
5For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will lead many astray.
6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must happen but it is not yet the end.
7For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
8But all these things are only the beginning of birth pains.
9“Then they will hand you over to persecution and will kill you. You will be hated by all the nations because of My name.
10And then many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one other.
11Many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.
12Because lawlessness will multiply, the love of many will grow cold.
13But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

I believe those who are Disciples of Yeshua will be spared Elohim ultimate wrath but we are plainly told we will suffer for Yeshua.
 
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Pacman said:
I am fully convinced that the rapture (as its commonly understood) is a made up event. We are looking for the Kingdom to be restored literally here on earth through a series of terrible events and there is no clear evidence from scripture that we will be absent for those events only to return at the end of them.
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The rapture as it is commonly called appears to be a confusion of two biblical concepts or events. One being the harvest of the world with wheat and tares having different destinations, the other event being when corruption puts on incorruption and the faithful who are here when the King returns meet Him in the air.

I believe in both events, but don't want to be 'taken' in the first part of the harvest. I hope to be among those shining in the kingdom after the clean up happens.
 
I agree with basically everyone here, but there's another angle to look at it also. You don't actually need to know what the future is - just how to prepare.

Assume the rapture is fiction. Prepare to go through the fire. Then, if you're snatched out early, you'll be pleasantly surprised.
While if you expect to be snatched out early, but are not, you'll be unprepared for the fire and may lose your faith entirely (you had faith in something that turned out to be incorrect, what else might be incorrect...?)

Or, to put it another way, better to be a pessimist than an optimist. Because a pessimist's life is full of pleasant surprises, while an optimist's is full of bitter disappointments. :)
 
FollowingHim said:
I agree with basically everyone here, but there's another angle to look at it also. You don't actually need to know what the future is - just how to prepare.

Assume the rapture is fiction. Prepare to go through the fire. Then, if you're snatched out early, you'll be pleasantly surprised.
While if you expect to be snatched out early, but are not, you'll be unprepared for the fire and may lose your faith entirely (you had faith in something that turned out to be incorrect, what else might be incorrect...?)

Or, to put it another way, better to be a pessimist than an optimist. Because a pessimist's life is full of pleasant surprises, while an optimist's is full of bitter disappointments. :)
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Pretty much sums up my viewpoint on most of eschatology. I know I should be a better student of it, but there's just so much dang speculation that seems to change every 10 years that I feel like a guy on a high wire act. It's not very stable and just so uncomfortable for me.
 
"We can hear the footsteps of Messiah approaching." This is a frequent quote that is being echoed around the world. Looking at the state of the world and being "watchmen on the walls (per Isaiah)" the time is nearing fast. We've had signs in the heavens, and on earth. We must pray for discernment of the times and wisdom with how to prepare for His return and restoration of creation.
 
GunnarR said:
"We can hear the footsteps of Messiah approaching." This is a frequent quote that is being echoed around the world. Looking at the state of the world and being "watchmen on the walls (per Isaiah)" the time is nearing fast. We've had signs in the heavens, and on earth. We must pray for discernment of the times and wisdom with how to prepare for His return and restoration of creation.
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Yes, but be very very careful about that. Although many Christians from all denominations are saying that, Christians have said stuff like that in every generation, that's nothing. It is the Jews who are really saying that with most specificity for today. Some are predicting Messiah to return this year. These statements are being "echoed around the world" by other Jews, and the branch of Zionist Christianity that has stopped trying to take the Gospel to the Jews and instead just supports them financially to continue to reject Messiah.

The Jews, who reject the true Messiah, expect to see "Messiah" arriving any day. Some say this year, specifically. As they have rejected the true Messiah, they are waiting for a false Messiah.

The false Messiah may be about to appear. And that will be a time of great deception and woe. It is something we must certainly be prepared for, and will need great discernment in. We need wisdom not for "how to prepare for His return", but firstly "how to survive the deep deception that will precede His return, and keep others from being deceived". That deception may be near at hand.
 
FollowingHim said:
I agree with basically everyone here, but there's another angle to look at it also. You don't actually need to know what the future is - just how to prepare.

Assume the rapture is fiction. Prepare to go through the fire. Then, if you're snatched out early, you'll be pleasantly surprised.
While if you expect to be snatched out early, but are not, you'll be unprepared for the fire and may lose your faith entirely (you had faith in something that turned out to be incorrect, what else might be incorrect...?)

Or, to put it another way, better to be a pessimist than an optimist. Because a pessimist's life is full of pleasant surprises, while an optimist's is full of bitter disappointments. :)
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Very well said. Especially since the teaching and mr scofield were sponsored by the zionist federation. It helps explain some political messes we are in. Some even want to help antichrist hurry up and build that temple so they can be raptured sooner? Crazy stuff..
 
I see no solid evidence for a pre-trib rapture. What I do see is a Tribulation so terrifying multitudes of people are willing to believe in a Rapture to comfort themselves they won't have to go through it; much as many deny the possibility of a pandemic today, even though we've had repeated pandemics throughout history (and in prophecy for the future).

And since this Rapture precedes the Mark of the Beast, many will be deceived into take the mark on account of that.
 
Frank S said:
I was raised with a pre-trib rapture belief.
I don't believe that any more due to Matthew 13: 24-30
Especially notice the order that things will happen as indicated in verse 30...

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/mat/13/24/s_942024
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what about:

Luke 21
36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
 
Jim an Apostle said:
what about:

Luke 21
36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
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I would counter with a question: What is the point of praying to to escape from anything that you are guaranteed to never have to deal with? That would be a highly unusual thing in the Scriptures - in fact - I don't know of any danger, trouble, or temptation that we are told to pray about if we are guaranteed to never have to deal with it. It is precisely because there are possible things to deal with that we should pray for deliverance. We are not told to pray to escape the armies of Pharaoh. Why? The answer is obvious - there is no chance of us having to deal with Pharaoh's armies. But we are told to pray to escape the bad things that are coming in the world because the very real possibility exists that some of us will have to deal with such things. I suspect many of God's people have prayed exactly what Jesus said to pray and they have had their prayers answered - they now have their escape and are already gone / delivered.

Just to add correlations to the time-line that I pointed to in Matthew 13...

Christ's return is in several places likened to what happened with Noah and Lot.

In the Noah event, it rained for 40 days and 40 nights. It is only reasonable to assume that the flood waters were rather deep and a lot of people already drowned before the Ark ever began to float. The flood - the same event that killed many, was the same event upon which Noah and family eventually and safely floated away on after many would likely have been already dead for days.

Lot and family were basically in a panic-mode fleeing while in that same day Sodom and Gomorrah was already burning behind them. Their escape time-frame went on and continued for some time during the very same time many others had perished and / or were yet perishing. So shall it be when the Son Of Man returns.

Notice the order of events in the final determination for sheep and goats in Matthew 25:46
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
Same day same event, not 7 years of tribulation in between as the theory of dispensationalism teaches.

I believe the pre-trib rapture theory is false and is going to leave a lot of Christians unprepared for the troubles that will come upon them. Most Christians I observe are not preparing themselves for the things Jesus mentioned in Luke 21. Things like being persecuted and handed over into prisons and dragged before authorities (verse 12) and things like being betrayed by parents and brothers and relatives (verse 16)
In verse 34 He warns about what to not be doing in case that day takes you unawares. In other words, take action - flee to safety (verse 21) and already not be doing as in verse 34.

Due to the heads-up from the circumstances of Noah and and Lot - be preparing - be building your ark, be ready for the destruction that is looming over our day of Sodom and Gomorrah. What need is there for us to watch and pray and prepare and get ready to run from and deal with awful trouble - if in fact, we are not going to be around anyway due to a prior rapturous departure?
Destruction of the ungodly happened in the same day of salvation for righteous Noah and Lot. That same-day principle happened also with the children of Israel at the Red sea and will happen with the sheep and the goats being separated; so too with the servants assessed for what they had done with the talents they were given. The children of Israel had to trudge in circles around Jericho for seven days before they got to have the promised land; when their ungodly enemies were destroyed - then it was theirs. In all cases, the same-day division of the two sides was decided as either destruction or salvation.

I am concerned for my brothers and sisters who are quite unprepared to deal with the coming storm that already has its clouds well within sight on this world's horizon. I've noticed in Matthew 25 that all the virgins - both the foolish and the wise - went to sleep. I think it is time for a lot of supposed Christians with assumed oil in their lamps to wake up - current events make it look like the Bridegroom may not be far away. And yet, according to Matthew 25, half of those waiting for Him imagine themselves as ready; they imagine themselves as ready because they do have some appearance of waiting for Him - however, they were not ready and now so many are not prepared or even busy preparing for ALL that will unfold leading up to His arrival.

I'd like to rename the pre-trib rapture theory as the "you don't really need to prepare for big trouble theory"

I just can't at the same time believe all that is written and believe that theory too.
 
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Boy, I must say that this is a pretty tame conversation. There are some places I've been around where this topic gets more heated than the Torah ones have gotten around here lately.
 
Frank S said:
I'd like to rename the pre-trib rapture theory as the "you don't really need to prepare for big trouble theory"
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I call it the "I can't handle the thought of living through the Tribulation so I believe we'll be raptured first" theory. Or the "Fool Christians into thinking they'll be raptured before the tribulations so they'll take my mark." theory.
 
Frank S said:
What is the point of praying to to escape from anything that you are guaranteed to never have to deal with? That would be a highly unusual thing in the Scriptures - in fact - I don't know of any danger, trouble, or temptation that we are told to pray about if we are guaranteed to never have to deal with it. It is precisely because there are possible things to deal with that we should pray for deliverance. We are not told to pray to escape the armies of Pharaoh. Why? The answer is obvious - there is no chance of us having to deal with Pharaoh's armies. But we are told to pray to escape the bad things that are coming in the world because the very real possibility exists that some of us will have to deal with such things. I suspect many of God's people have prayed exactly what Jesus said to pray and they have had their prayers answered - they now have their escape and are already gone / delivered.
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I am Not one who thinks that the rapture is is a guarantee of peace and safety. There was no rapture for the multitude of martyrs from Able till now. No rapture for persecutions under Stalin or Mao. Wars and earthquakes and famines are all part of the beginning of sorrows. One crop failure, an EMP or even an invasion of our homeland or any number of plagues or pestilences are possible, and one would be prudent to prepare for any number of contingencies as the present pandemic has shown on a very minor scale. But the Tribulation such as as the world has never known is another thing entirely. That is not just the wrath of man nor just the wrath of Satan but also includes the wrath of God! God has not appointed us unto wrath! To pray for escape is not to pray for death. we are to occupy till He comes. I am not against preparedness! I encourage it! The tribulation is to punish sin and to drive Israel back to Jesus. I have already accepted Him I am not appointed to wrath. The rapture is not guaranteed to anyone hence, pray that you may be worthy.
The resurrection and glorification is for those who are alive and remain before the Tribulation and for those who die (righteous) during the Tribulation. Those who survive the tribulation, and are deemed worthy, enter the 1000 year reign of Christ, they never die if they are obedient but they are never glorified. Otherwise you are populating the new kingdom with nothing but sinners. Not the resurrected make up the new kingdom the resurrected are the rulers. The flesh and blood 'survivors' of the Trib. repopulate the earth and seven women shall take a hold of one man.
 
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