Prostitution vs adultery

[FollowingHim]

Actually, Zec does have a point here. When Christ says "What God has joined together let not man put asunder", how does God join together? God does the one flesh side of things. Humans can make a decision to move in together, but that's not the bit God does. He joins them as one flesh when they consummate it. So Christ is, without a doubt, referring to "one flesh" in the first half of that statement.

The question is whether the words "put asunder" refer to one flesh, or the physical decision to cohabitate.

Personally I read that part as referring to cohabitation. In other words, if God has joined them together as one flesh - in a manner far stronger than anything man can do - do not presume to take them apart physically. You can't break what God has done, they're still one flesh, don't even try.

While Zec is reading "put asunder" as also referring to one flesh. In other words he is saying that humans actually have the power to make someone no longer one flesh, but Christ says don't do it.

Interesting. I can see why he reads it this way. I disagree because I think "one flesh" is stronger and more serious than this, not something people can break even if they want to. But it's changed my understanding of Zec's perspective anyway.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Actually, Zec does have a point here. When Christ says "What God has joined together let not man put asunder", how does God join together? God does the one flesh side of things. Humans can make a decision to move in together, but that's not the bit God does. He joins them as one flesh when they consummate it. So Christ is, without a doubt, referring to "one flesh" in the first half of that statement.

The question is whether the words "put asunder" refer to one flesh, or the physical decision to cohabitate.

Personally I read that part as referring to cohabitation. In other words, if God has joined them together as one flesh - in a manner far stronger than anything man can do - do not presume to take them apart physically. You can't break what God has done, they're still one flesh, don't even try.

While Zec is reading "put asunder" as also referring to one flesh. In other words he is saying that humans actually have the power to make someone no longer one flesh, but Christ says don't do it.

Interesting. I can see why he reads it this way. I disagree because I think "one flesh" is stronger and more serious than this, not something people can break even if they want to. But it's changed my understanding of Zec's perspective anyway.

I might need to go back and look at put asunder. I just assumed it referred to one flesh and didn’t even consider an alternative.

 

[Mark C]

"What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." (Matthew 19:6, also Mark 10:9)

I think it's a direct prohibition on what happens dozens of times daily in the states with DV arrest "laws" - someone calls 911, because they hear neighbors arguing, or just want to cause problems, (think "SWATing") police come, and arrest one or both husband and wife (they just ASSUME jurisdiction, of course), and then an AUTOMATIC 'restraining order' is issued, prohibiting any contact. They may take the kids as well. And nothing is ever the same again.

I contend that is "putting asunder." And I wish I was kidding, but I suspect it really does happen a dozen or more times daily. I know of far too many first-hand.

 

[FollowingHim]

Now that's another interesting way to look at it @Mark C.

 

[Maddog]

I heartily disagree with the idea that God has(or had) a hand in physical union of bodies in sex when that sometimes is good and other times it is illicit. Does God have a hand in that which is prohibited? What still baffles the scientists today is the joining of egg and sperm and creating life. I believe too much has been overly spiritualized in the sexual union and too little in the miracle of life. God joins the two parts into ONE FLESH whereas man's insatiable greed demolishes a single life in the preborn and newly born life. If every aspect of life must be explained by scripture then we have lost the miracle. Flesh means flesh, period. I am confounded by the idolatry of the sexual union and then to spiritualize it. You may scream "oh God" when you orgasm but that is not proof that God was involved and then in a few minutes God is NOT involved when you pull out. Don't ignore the cultural aspect of dividing assunder, it is child sacrifice. The practice of spiritualizing everything has spawned many heresy. Matt 19 and mark 10 is your "proof text" for God's followers not to abort babies like the world does.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I heartily disagree with the idea that God has(or had) a hand in physical union of bodies in sex when that sometimes is good and other times it is illicit. Does God have a hand in that which is prohibited? ……… God joins the two parts into ONE FLESH whereas man's insatiable greed demolishes a single life in the preborn and newly born life.

This makes no sense of God can’t join people at one flesh because sometimes people are sinful, then he couldn’t join them at conception because that conception is the result of sex that is ostensibly sometimes forbidden. If you were right then for a time then Hagar would have been the wife and Sarah would have been the handmaiden.

Was Judah’s one flesh with his daughter in law valid because of the child? Lot and his daughters? Were all of the patriarchs who struggled with fertility living in adulterous sin until the womb was finally opened? Are couples who never have children not married? This idea just doesn’t work.

Besides, divorce would actually be an abortion if you were right. Divorce is the undoing of one flesh, if one flesh is a child then a valid divorce would be a “valid” abortion? It just doesn’t make sense.

 

[Man_in_the_Middle]

This makes no sense of God can’t join people at one flesh because sometimes people are sinful, then he couldn’t join them at conception because that conception is the result of sex that is ostensibly sometimes forbidden. If you were right then for a time then Hagar would have been the wife and Sarah would have been the handmaiden.

Was Judah’s one flesh with his daughter in law valid because of the child? Lot and his daughters? Were all of the patriarchs who struggled with fertility living in adulterous sin until the womb was finally opened? Are couples who never have children not married? This idea just doesn’t work.

Besides, divorce would actually be an abortion if you were right. Divorce is the undoing of one flesh, if one flesh is a child then a valid divorce would be a “valid” abortion? It just doesn’t make sense.

Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

From your statement, it appears that you are deriving your position from these verses. Please clarify if that is an incorrect assumption.

But, dealing with these scriptures, I see verse 6 as saying that men should not put asunder what God has joined together. That seems simple enough.

But, what in verse 5 means joining together? Look at the Greek behind the words and you will note that the word "cleave" means join or adhere as in gluing together.

G4347
προσκολλάω
proskollaō
pros-kol-lay'-o
From G4314 and G2853; to glue to, that is, (figuratively) to adhere: - cleave, join (self).

It is after this joining together that we see the one flesh being mentioned. So, this is the joining that God is involved in.


In verse 6, the words "joined together" means the yoking... Strongs - G4801

G4801
συζεύγνυμι
suzeugnumi
sood-zyoog'-noo-mee
From G4862 and the base of G2201; to yoke together, that is, (figuratively) conjoin (in marriage): - join together.

Where else do we see this in scripture?

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

So, the two, yoked together, pull together and when they are echad, or in unity, then they pull well together.
We see this principle in scripture in Yah's commands as well.

Deu 22:10 Thou shalt not plow with an ox and an ass together.

The idea of being Yoked together is the joining...
The plowing can only happen after the joining..

Jdg 14:18 And the men of the city said unto him on the seventh day before the sun went down, What is sweeter than honey? and what is stronger than a lion? And he said unto them, If ye had not plowed with my heifer, ye had not found out my riddle.

This plowing was done with someone else's heifer. The joining together in that case was NOT done by God.
Someone stole his heifer and joined them together. This yoking was not honored by God.
Not to be crass but, then the plowing began.

In marriage, this plowing confirms the covenant. In adultery, this plowing confirms the sin.

I hope this sheds some light on the topic...

 

[The Revolting Man]

Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

From your statement, it appears that you are deriving your position from these verses. Please clarify if that is an incorrect assumption.

But, dealing with these scriptures, I see verse 6 as saying that men should not put asunder what God has joined together. That seems simple enough.

But, what in verse 5 means joining together? Look at the Greek behind the words and you will note that the word "cleave" means join or adhere as in gluing together.

G4347
προσκολλάω
proskollaō
pros-kol-lay'-o
From G4314 and G2853; to glue to, that is, (figuratively) to adhere: - cleave, join (self).

It is after this joining together that we see the one flesh being mentioned. So, this is the joining that God is involved in.


In verse 6, the words "joined together" means the yoking... Strongs - G4801

G4801
συζεύγνυμι
suzeugnumi
sood-zyoog'-noo-mee
From G4862 and the base of G2201; to yoke together, that is, (figuratively) conjoin (in marriage): - join together.

Where else do we see this in scripture?

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

So, the two, yoked together, pull together and when they are echad, or in unity, then they pull well together.
We see this principle in scripture in Yah's commands as well.

Deu 22:10 Thou shalt not plow with an ox and an ass together.

The idea of being Yoked together is the joining...
The plowing can only happen after the joining..

Jdg 14:18 And the men of the city said unto him on the seventh day before the sun went down, What is sweeter than honey? and what is stronger than a lion? And he said unto them, If ye had not plowed with my heifer, ye had not found out my riddle.

This plowing was done with someone else's heifer. The joining together in that case was NOT done by God.
Someone stole his heifer and joined them together. This yoking was not honored by God.
Not to be crass but, then the plowing began.

In marriage, this plowing confirms the covenant. In adultery, this plowing confirms the sin.

I hope this sheds some light on the topic...

I’m sorry but I’m not sure what you’re responding to or what you’re advocating for. Can you clarify?

 

[Man_in_the_Middle]

I’m sorry but I’m not sure what you’re responding to or what you’re advocating for. Can you clarify?

where did I lose ya?
I will try to clarify but I am not sure where it became unclear at...

 

[NBTX11]

To the sex = one flesh = marriage crowd

If a man other than me has sex with my wife, is he married to her? Yes or no.

If no, then one flesh does not always equal marriage.

Don’t tell me there are exceptions. It’s a yes or no question.