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Paranormal Activity, Ghosts, & Demons

love4me

love4me

New Member
People are trying to convince me that they are real but I say they aren't. What does the bible say about it? I know of just 1 place in the bible where it talks about the man that was possessed with a demon and Jesus cast out the demon into the pigs. Can anyone give me any ideas on what is right and wrong?
 
People are trying to convince me that they are real but I say they aren't...
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Stacie - If you are referring explicitly to "demons" (leaving aside the Hollywood-related issues for now) I would contend that Scripture leaves no doubt whatsoever. The Savior repeatedly referred to, commanded, and cast out demons; there are literally MANY such references through multiple witnesses.

I'm on my way out the door at present, and no doubt others can fill in other details, but look for "this kind only comes out by prayer and fasting" in a KJV or such (the NIV literally leaves out the "and fasting" from the verse, and some translations leave out the verse entirely - which is another story!). He was recalled to have cast out (seven, IIRC) from Mary; the "Gadarene Demoniac" is the "legion" reference and pigs; demons knew Who He was ("even the demons" is another such reference) - and so on.

It is a very interesting study, and one which has inclined me to remark on occasion, "who ya gonna believe, 'modern' mythology like psychiatry and pharmakopeia, or Him?" For me, the oversimplified "bottom line" is that the "model" of human behavior which includes malicious demonic influence (not in all cases of disease, mental illness, or 'disturbance', but certainly in some) is every bit as demonstrably accurate as the secular alternative.

More later...


Blessings,
Mark
 
PS> There's an old "joke" that goes something like, "Satan's most noteworthy accomplishment was convincing people he doesn't exist", or similar. Since our Savior literally gave us authority over demonic spirits (to do as He did) it seems plausible that convincing us that we do not see their influence in our lives (and are thus powerless over such) is a similar important deception.
 
Mark C said:
PS> There's an old "joke" that goes something like, "Satan's most noteworthy accomplishment was convincing people he doesn't exist", or similar. Since our Savior literally gave us authority over demonic spirits (to do as He did) it seems plausible that convincing us that we do not see their influence in our lives (and are thus powerless over such) is a similar important deception.
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Personally, I find the most noteworthy accomplishment of his to be convincing God's people that he is (or was) an angel of light (the highest even)... AFTER it was said in the NT that he disguises himself as an angel of light. But then that's another topic.

I've had experience with demons myself. Back when I was unsaved I was grabbed at night... couldn't move, see, hear, breathe, speak. I've always been a man of self-control. But I didn't have any control then. I was deeply scared. When it let me go I had an unquenchable, illogical hatred of God. That hatred caused me to spend the next year and a half or so searching out how one may destroy God (I focused on my own brand of new age theology and energy control). The second time I was visited in the same way... around January of 2004. Only that time I saw a dark form in the darkness. I started to allow myself to see and realize who my true enemy was. Soon after I looked up in the way I did to yell at God, and I literally turned around and looked in the other direction, and yelled at Satan. I never wanted anything to do with him. I turned to God, and repented. Been following the Lord ever since.

A few months after that I had my third experience. I had been searching the scriptures before going to sleep, and was begging God for understanding of a verse. At night, when I couldn't move once again, breathe, speak, etc... I wasn't afraid. I was just listening... waiting for the Lord to explain the scripture to me. Instead I heard what I can only liken to what you hear when you beat the final boss of a video game. When I was let go, I immediately knew what happened. The demon of my past came to his vacation home... found it swept clean, put in order... and occupied. It had lost me completely. I was the Lord's. It was not happy.

I had a friend that had a similar experience not long after he was saved. Only he was physically grabbed and when he pushed very hard against it to turn, his head went into it. He said it was jelly like. All he could do was barely say Jesus' name, and it left instantly.

There was also an experience when I was a baby that I'm told about. My parents were living in a real haunted house. My mother kept the front door open at all times. The shoes would scatter themselves. Things would move. My older brother saw what he called "spider man" come out of the floor (he didn't know anything about the comic book spider man.... so this was a real SPIDER man). He got into my mother's arms and wouldn't even touch the floor for two weeks.

These things are real. As Mark said, there are many scriptures about them. Jesus dealt with them relatively frequently. To deny their existence is to deny a whole lot of evidence and eye witnesses. Indeed, it is to twist scripture itself. It's not that Jesus fixed mental problems. He literally cast out demons. Those demons knew who He was, and He would not let them speak because of it. They testified in many places anyway. Trust me, these things are real.
 
(( I would rate this as OK, not bad, so so ))

Anyone that has any significant experience with missions in 3rd world countries has no doubts as to the realities of the dark spiritual forces behind the scenes.

I will be on the conference call listed below with Howard Pittman this evening...

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=1 ... 260&ref=mf

I can not personally vouch for his story, but the excerpts I have heard from his book "Placebo" has been very compelling. I am getting to know the host of the call but am early in that process.

If you miss the call, and you would like to hear his testimony...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFG-wUES ... ture=email

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Curtis

P.S. Standard disclaimer applies.
 
I could see where Satan could cast demons to try to takeover and get us away from the Lord. Maybe I should take things more seriously instead of not believing in them.
 
It would be very good for you to pay more attention, but do not become paranoid. There is much going on in the spiritual realm and most humans either can't or won't see. I didn't believe it for a long time. Then I had a dream that told me I had a demon. Turns out I had a few, but they were keeping a low profile and mostly giving me all the insecurities that I had.

SweetLissa
 
There are some very good books on that (and related) topics out there, Stacie. One of the best teachers on the issue of healing that I've seen is Pastor Henry Wright, in Georgia. He has written a number of excellent books on the topic; A More Excellent Way is the cornerstone work in his series.

Introduction to Occultism and Bitterness are shorter reads, and great introductions to the topic. Books like Unloving and Fear talk about specific spiritual issues. He always does a great job of citing relevant Scripture.

His website is a good resource as well:
http://www.beinhealth.com

Another good book on the topic is Frank and Ida Mae Hammond's Pigs in the Parlor.

Blessings,
Mark
 
I'm not fond of the mainstream ideas on this topic. There is nothing that says that demons are or were angels at one point... fallen or otherwise. There is also nothing that says that Satan was the greatest angel and ran a rebellion against heaven that got all these ex-angels kicked out... and got himself a new job title... prosecutor of humanity. There are quite a few things spoken on Satan, but nothing that does any more than maybe allude to the huge story that is assumed. But there is a rebellion of angels that is actually scriptural and usually ignored... in Genesis just before the flood.

Doctrines of the church are truly all whacked out.
 
Take the article for what it's worth (boy, one could really fill in the blank here :D ). I just thought it was a short explanation into a very large topic. Since the article was only one page it didn't really get that indepth.
 
sadanyagci said:
I'm not fond of the mainstream ideas on this topic. There is nothing that says that demons are or were angels at one point... fallen or otherwise. There is also nothing that says that Satan was the greatest angel and ran a rebellion against heaven that got all these ex-angels kicked out... and got himself a new job title... prosecutor of humanity. There are quite a few things spoken on Satan, but nothing that does any more than maybe allude to the huge story that is assumed. But there is a rebellion of angels that is actually scriptural and usually ignored... in Genesis just before the flood.

Doctrines of the church are truly all whacked out.
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Hello Brother,

I appreciate the fact that you are always thinking outside of the box, and as long as "outside the box" doesn't include going outside of Scripture for doctrinal conclusions, I believe this is healthy.

sadanyagci said:
There is nothing that says that demons are or were angels at one point... fallen or otherwise.
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Although there is disagreement among theologians concerning the origin of demons, the preponderance of Biblical evidence does suggest that demons are fallen angels. The problem is that the Bible does not really discuss their origin. However, in should be noted that in order to explain demons as anything other than angels who have fallen, we are forced to make too many unwarranted assumptions. Hermeneutically speaking, the wisest approach is to always choose a position with the least amount of assumptions or arbitrary distinctions.
 
Hello again,

sadanyagci said:
There is also nothing that says that Satan was the greatest angel and ran a rebellion against heaven that got all these ex-angels kicked out... and got himself a new job title... prosecutor of humanity.
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1. I do agree that there is nothing that clearly says that Satan was the greatest angel. This idea comes from Ezekiel 28. The passage is specifically addressed to the king of Babylon. The reason that this is seen as applying to Satan is because in Ezekiel 28:13 the person being described is present in Eden. Therefore, it seems to suggest, like much apocaplytic literature, a double meaning. Under the plain sense of the passage where the prophet is speaking about about the king of Babylon, it is suggested that the prophet is actually giving a hidden synopsis of Satan's history. If it is true that his passage applies to the origins of Satan, it would suggest that he was an "anointed cherub who covers". The cherbim hold the highest rank in the host of heaven and display their preeminence by standing nearest to the throne of almighty God. If Satan was the who who covers, that is, if his ceremonial position was above the other cherubim, this suggests that he was chief of the four. This passage also suggests that he was full of pride, beauty and influence, who desired to become equal with God. I am not sure how much I can personally embrace such an unclear passage about Satan's origin to amke it a a doctrinal postion. The other passage that is used is Isaiah 14. This one addresses the king of Tyre.
2. Depending how one reads Revelation 12:4 and Matthew 25:41, the symbolism suggests that Satan and 1/3 of the angels left heaven.
3. These fallen angels wage war against God (Revelation 9:1-11 and 12:7-17), by battling humans (Ephesians 6).
4. We know that Satan is the ruler of demons and are part of the same evil kingdom (Matthew 12:24-26)

The Greek word for ruler in Matthew 12:24-26 indicates that Satan is the "first among similars". This means that he is more than a mere chief of demons, but that He is a "Chief Demon" himself, which is a very strong connecting passage.

sadanyagci said:
But there is a rebellion of angels that is actually scriptural and usually ignored... in Genesis just before the flood.
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I do not know if I would consider the Genesis passage that clear at all. Anyway, blessings!
 
By the way, I was a bit disappointed with parts of the earlier event that I had been invited to and posted to this thread, though it did contain some meaningful value.

Here is a brief summary of my working theory of the subject matter at hand, some parts of which I am more sure of than others, but that I found very useful in it's implications during my time in India to contextualize and exclusivize the "the Way, the Truth, and the Life" in the land of "Many Ways" who's people tend to just add "Jesus" to their shrine while still serving the fallen angels or their progeny..

(I will leave it to you to verify with references for brevity)

1. A portion of the angelic host rebelled against the intentions of Yah most likely due to the "intel" surrounding the creation of man "in the image of Yah" and the angelic host and Lucifer himself being subservient to that which is but "dust". Gen. 1:26

2. Lucifer was not prideful above Yah himself (though it is obvious pride to not accept the lot assigned by Him) in the sense of exalting himself truly above the throne of Yah but rather the "stars of Yah" and insists upon "being like the most High" as all of us are called. Isa 14:13-14

3. This is why the principalities and powers are so intent to cause men to be subservient to them and relish in their worship as seen both today and throughout the biblical record.

4. I distinguish from fallen angels who have a fully functional angelic bodies capable of physical manifestation and the lower impish demons who tend to be dependent upon a host for full self expression and have vice-dominant character traits. This is not to imply that there is not some significant vying for position and influence among the dark angelic echelons.

5. Some levels of demons may be the unregenerate disembodied spirits of the offspring of fallen angels who inter-copulated with women resulting in Nephilim as mentioned in the beginning of Genesis 6 whose progeny retained varied levels of racial distinction, purity, and power. Of course, this process has reoccurred multiple times throughout history as alluded to. Greek mythology was most likely of this origin as was the populations of the land of Canaan upon the Exodus from Egypt.

6. Modern "alien" and "UFO" phenomenon (besides the obvious hoaxes) are most likely sourced in some combination of the above. See http://www.khouse.org/pages/special_eve ... ncounters/ for well presented info in this area.

7. The Evil hosts actually believe that they could win and theoretically it seems that they could. All they must do is beat us via disconnecting us from Yah or stamping out the remnant. Part of this whole saga is expressly for their "benefit" in that they will see that "manifold wisdom of Yah". The evil host do experience wins and encouragements (and of course defeats) along the way and Yah has occasionally allowed things to get down to a very thin connective thread of remaining technical legal access to the earth realm. (Eze. 22:30) People through breach of relationship with Yah lost dominion over the earth and people through renewed relationship with Yah will regain it. The evil host need not beat Yah himself but rather just men who trust in Him. Of course, we have read the end of the book but we must also realize that our involvement and participation is part of the story yet to be told.

8. Due to the twisted, selfish, and vice-filled ranks of the evil hosts, they are inherently challenged with diversity of objective and disorganization particularly at the lower levels but by no means exclusively. The Messiah said that "a house divided is against itself shall not stand." This does prophetically apply to the kingdom of darkness itself because it will not stand and it is true that one can rearrange demons with demon power as Messiah was falsely accused of doing.

Edit: While I was looking for a verse that still alludes me to add to part 7 above, in my search, I found this article on prayer. Since it is very applicable particularly to my legal access comments above, I thought I should add it here...

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=7 ... opic=10139

To any other articles this poster may have, of course, I can not vouch for them because I just found this now and after reading it I thought that it explains the concept of "divine legal access" quite well in the context of prayer. I am completely unaware of the other views this poster may have.

For what it is worth.

Sincerely,

Curtis
 
love4me said:
Thank you for the article it was very interesting.
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You're welcome. I'm glad that you enjoyed it. There are lots of great answers on this site. That is what is so wonderful about being apart of it.
 
If I might add a couple more things for thought.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

This supports much of what others have posted.

Also I have always thought that as Curtis wrote, that man being created or going to be created in the image of God and an heir might have been part of the motivation for Satans struggle and rebellion. Also one of the spoils and causes of the battle might be one of the best things God has given us. That is faith. Everyone has a measure of faith (Romans 12:3). There is disagreement whether this includes non-Christians and II Thes 3:2 says that all men do not have faith but this may mean faith in Christ. For Christians this faith can be increased (II Cor 10:15) If one reads the scripture after Romans 12:3 and reads Eph 4:13,16 faith may work best as a unity effort. I do not see where faith was 'given' to Satan or to angels. Perhaps faith is Satans weak link. Satan and his hosts know about and observe faith working in man but it's power escapes them unless it is deceptively controlled and though Satan does not have faith, he still enjoys the power of the collective highjacked energy of the church. (and Satan seems to be all about power and himself) We are helping the church being highjacked if we are aiding Satan by neglecting our measure and increase. But we should use our faith actively to please God (Heb 11:5,6). I think that a big deception Satan may utilize is that if we are not using our faith that it is completely dormant. Not using faith perhaps is by default helping Satan and unbelief. (Matt 17:20) Either we believe and have faith or we have unbelief. If someone just wants to abstain from a prayer of faith they are actually abstaining because of unbelief. Too often we want to observe the game, but it is not possible to just observe. We are all on the field in the game. You have a measure of faith and it can be increased. Not using it, is active unbelief. Our unbelief can be prayed about. (Mark 9:24)

How does this relate to plural? It is what we are up against in having faith that we can build a patriachal home. We find Satan has deceived the church on what can be a home. Scripture defines marriage but Satans definition of marriage is what the church has accepted.

I Tim 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith

II Tim 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
 
Curtis said:
1. A portion of the angelic host rebelled against the intentions of Yah most likely due to the "intel" surrounding the creation of man "in the image of Yah" and the angelic host and Lucifer himself being subservient to that which is but "dust". Gen. 1:26
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Curtis,
I find this an interesting viewpoint--but I find no scriptural support for it. Yes, that verse says that God created man in His image--but I have yet to find a Scripture that says this is *why* the demons rebelled. If you have such a verse, I would be most interested in reading it. I had always been under the impression that this was a tradition of the kaballa (Jewish occultism) but I've yet to find any Scripture that supports the idea. (Although a myriad of movies have been based upon the idea.)

I have always believed that Lucifer--one of the three arch-angels--fell and drew with him 1/3 of the angels (those under his command) as referenced in Revelation 12:4. Angels do not have free-will and must follow their chain of command. When Lucifer fell, he drew those 1/3 because they were under his command as an arch-angel (sorry, no verse to prove it, this is surmizing based upon the military layout of the angelic host).

I find your study to be fascinating and I look forward to hearing more. :)

Curtis said:
3. This is why the principalities and powers are so intent to cause men to be subservient to them and relish in their worship as seen both today and throughout the biblical record.
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This makes logical sense--but do you have any supporting scripture?

Curtis said:
4. I distinguish from fallen angels who have a fully functional angelic bodies capable of physical manifestation and the lower impish demons who tend to be dependent upon a host for full self expression and have vice-dominant character traits. This is not to imply that there is not some significant vying for position and influence among the dark angelic echelons.
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I have heard it told that there are 5 ranks of angelic host and each have their various capabilities--but everything I have read on it is occultic in nature and not Scriptural. Do you have some scripture to shed light on the various capabilities of the "classes" of angels?

Thanks for your posting and I'm looking forward to your response! :)

Ben
 
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