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Palestine in Israel

OttoM

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Three different prophets. All referring to the 2nd Exodus and the return of the remnant (Israel and Judah), back to the land promised to Abraham:

Jeremiah 33:10 (referring to the 2nd Exodus)
“This is what YAHUAH says: You have said, ‘This is a desolate land where people and animals have all disappeared.’ Yet in the empty streets of Jerusalem and Judah’s other towns, there will be heard once more the sounds of joy and laughter.

Ezekiel 36:35 (referring to the 2nd Exodus)
And when I bring you back, people will say, ‘This former wasteland is now like the Garden of Eden! The abandoned and ruined cities now have strong walls and are filled with people!’

38 They will be as numerous as the sacred flocks that fill Jerusalem’s streets at the time of her festivals. The ruined cities will be crowded with people once more, and everyone will know that I am YAHUAH.”

Isaiah 49:14-15
14 Yet Jerusalem says, “YAHUAH has deserted us; YAHUAH has forgotten us.” 15 “Never! Can a mother forget her nursing child?

19 Even the most desolate parts of your abandoned land will soon be crowded with your people.

21 Then you will think to yourself, ‘Who has given me all these descendants? For most of my children were killed, and the rest were carried away into exile. I was left here all alone.

22 This is what YAHUAH says: “See, I will give a signal to the godless nations. They will carry your little sons back to you in their arms; they will bring your daughters on their shoulders.

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Here is the political state of Israel - before 1948:

Screenshot 2024-02-19 at 11.17.56 PM.png

It was not desolate. It was not abandoned. It was not ruined.
 
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Three different prophets. All referring to the 2nd Exodus and the return of the remnant (Israel and Judah), back to the land promised to Abraham:

Jeremiah 33:10 (referring to the 2nd Exodus)
“This is what YAHUAH says: You have said, ‘This is a desolate land where people and animals have all disappeared.’ Yet in the empty streets of Jerusalem and Judah’s other towns, there will be heard once more the sounds of joy and laughter.

Ezekiel 36:35 (referring to the 2nd Exodus)
And when I bring you back, people will say, ‘This former wasteland is now like the Garden of Eden! The abandoned and ruined cities now have strong walls and are filled with people!’

38 They will be as numerous as the sacred flocks that fill Jerusalem’s streets at the time of her festivals. The ruined cities will be crowded with people once more, and everyone will know that I am YAHUAH.”

Isaiah 49:14-15
14 Yet Jerusalem says, “YAHUAH has deserted us; YAHUAH has forgotten us.” 15 “Never! Can a mother forget her nursing child?

19 Even the most desolate parts of your abandoned land will soon be crowded with your people.

21 Then you will think to yourself, ‘Who has given me all these descendants? For most of my children were killed, and the rest were carried away into exile. I was left here all alone.

22 This is what YAHUAH says: “See, I will give a signal to the godless nations. They will carry your little sons back to you in their arms; they will bring your daughters on their shoulders.

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Here is the political state of Israel - before 1948:

View attachment 6388

It was not desolate. It was not abandoned. It was not ruined.

---------------------------------------------------------
So if YAHUAH's Israel is not Palestine - who formed her, and what is she? Scripture gives a clue:

Revelation 3:9
Look, I will force those who belong to Satan’s synagoguethose liars who say they are Jews but are not—to come and bow down at your feet. They will acknowledge that you are the ones I love.

Another big clue that they are the Synagogue of Satan:

View attachment 6389View attachment 6390View attachment 6391


Therefore, the political state of Israel is not the promise land. It's a counterfeit Israel created by the adversary. I'm not saying everyone living in Palestine's Israel is part of the synagogue of satan. Because just like the adversary controls the political state of Israel - he also controls the United States. I'm sure there may be true Israelites living there that keep the commandments, and faith in the Messiah. Because scripture says that the people of YAH are living in enemy territory until he brings them back; and that they are scattered among the nations. If you don't think you're living in enemy territory - try and get a marriage license for two wives. Or try and preach that two men lying together is an abomination worthy of the death penalty. Or that kidnappers deserve the death sentence - even though they were caught before they sold the victim to sex slavery. Yes - we're living behind enemy lines - regardless of which Christian nation you're living in today. South America. Europe. Or America. All the same.

Wherever the real Jerusalem is - she's desolate and abandoned. That's based on the Word of YAHUAH. From multiple prophets. She will remain desolate until the 2nd Exodus happens - then she will be like the Garden of Eden - and her people will have a everlasting peace covenant with the Most High.

Why did the adversary do that with Palestine? Multiple reasons - I imagine. One biblical reason is to confuse the Christian who the Israelites are. Christians are the "lost sheep" of Israel. Anyone on earth could be a lost sheep of Israel. Their numbers are like the sand on the seashore, but only a remnant will return. The Messiah is calling them back, so he can re-unite Judah and Israel back together - under Prince David - and usher in an everlasting peace covenant. Through the blood of the Messiah - we can be grafted into Israel. Praise YAH. Read Ezekiel 37:15-28. I personally believe this 2nd Exodus will happen in our generation.
Wow @Earth_is- you really do come up with some doozies, I will say this topic regarding location is a long discussed topic (not on BF as far as I am aware), sometimes your logic seems a tad disjointed especially as you seem to have missed a vitally important scripture from your original post.

And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled (completed). — Luke 21:24 AMP


Anyway, my interest is in your following statement.

Christians are the "lost sheep" of Israel. Anyone on earth could be a lost sheep of Israel.

Are you making a statement here ? If so how does that work ?

Acts 11:26 And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.
Christians are  disciples of Jesus Christ.

@frederick As the term Christian is only found 3 times in the "new testament" and the definition of being a disciple is abiding in the word of YAHushuWaH / Jesus

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed; — John 8:31 KJV

The term Christian no longer applies to those who continue in his word, it seems to apply to anyone who "identifies as" or who wears a cross etc.

Interesting to note is that firstly the label Christian was designated to disciples by pagans, unbelievers, (I personally believe and teach that as disciples of YAHushuWaH/ Jesus we should not label ourselves as Christian's, and secondly, even though this account was written by dr Luke many years after these events arose in Antioch the term disciple was still being used as a self description.
 
Jeremiah 33:10 (referring to the 2nd Exodus)
“This is what YAHUAH says: You have said, ‘This is a desolate land where people and animals have all disappeared.’ Yet in the empty streets of Jerusalem and Judah’s other towns, there will be heard once more the sounds of joy and laughter.

Ezekiel 36:35 (referring to the 2nd Exodus)
And when I bring you back, people will say, ‘This former wasteland is now like the Garden of Eden! The abandoned and ruined cities now have strong walls and are filled with people!’

38 They will be as numerous as the sacred flocks that fill Jerusalem’s streets at the time of her festivals. The ruined cities will be crowded with people once more, and everyone will know that I am YAHUAH.”

Isaiah 49:14-15
14 Yet Jerusalem says, “YAHUAH has deserted us; YAHUAH has forgotten us.” 15 “Never! Can a mother forget her nursing child?

19 Even the most desolate parts of your abandoned land will soon be crowded with your people.

21 Then you will think to yourself, ‘Who has given me all these descendants? For most of my children were killed, and the rest were carried away into exile. I was left here all alone.

22 This is what YAHUAH says: “See, I will give a signal to the godless nations. They will carry your little sons back to you in their arms; they will bring your daughters on their shoulders.
I agree these passages are difficult to reconcile with the present nation of Israel being the second Exodus. Now, @JudahYAHites has raised Luke 21:24, which is consistent - but we can't have a competition of proof texts here. If it's the second Exodus, it must fit ALL the prophecies, and not be contradicted by some.

I do not know the answer. But it is very easy for us to assume that we are living in the end times, and fit our present day news into prophecy, even if it is not the end times at all. Christians have been doing that for the past 2000 years, always thinking Jesus is coming back soon and the bad things they are going through indicate the end is near. It is entirely possible, if not statistically most probable, that we are not in the end times yet and the things we see in the world today are not prophetic fulfilment, but just another thing that looks like it but turns out in hindsight to not have been.

The Holy Land has never been deserted, it has been continually inhabited from the time of Christ until now. If it IS to become desolate, that may be future. It is possible that present-day events will lead to a disaster of such epic proportions that the land will become desolate, setting the stage for the true second exodus after that. E.g. a nuclear attack levelling Israel and leaving the cities destroyed and the land uninhabitable for some time.

I'm not saying that's true, I'm not predicting anything. My point is only that you cannot conclude from this that the promised land is somewhere different. It may still be where it always has been, and we just haven't got far along in time for the prophecy to match up yet.
 
Wow @Earth_is- you really do come up with some doozies, I will say this topic regarding location is a long discussed topic (not on BF as far as I am aware), sometimes your logic seems a tad disjointed especially as you seem to have missed a vitally important scripture from your original post.

And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled (completed). — Luke 21:24 AMP
Luke 21:20
“And when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then you will know that the time of its destruction has arrived.

Matthew 24:2
Then he responded, “Do you see all these buildings? I tell you the truth, they will be completely demolished. Not one stone will be left on top of another!”

When did its destruction occur? Around 70 AD. “Not one stone left on top of another.” That does not fit Palestine’s Israel. Further evidence that Palestine is not Israel or the location of the real Jerusalem.

The real Jerusalem is not inhabited by Israel. She’s desolate. We’re still living in the times of the gentiles (lost sheep of Israel) - where through the Messiah - we can still be grafted into Abraham’s offspring.

Once that period ends - the exodus occurs - and Jerusalem will be inhabited again, and the 3rd temple will be built. Read Ezekiel 40-48 which comes after the exodus, and the remnant are back in the land. The exodus hasn’t occurred yet - nor is prince David reigning - nor is there peace in the land - nor is there direct protection from YAHUAH in the land. Furthermore, the specifications from Ezekiel for the 3rd temple will not fit in the location where the dome of the rock is. It’s too big.
 
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Anyway, my interest is in your following statement.

Christians are the "lost sheep" of Israel. Anyone on earth could be a lost sheep of Israel.

Are you making a statement here ? If so how does that work ?
Isaiah 10:22
But though the people of Israel are as numerous as the sand of the seashore, only a remnant of them will return. YAHUAH has rightly decided to destroy his people.

The Northern Kingdom went to exile in the north. When Paul was preaching to the gentiles in his letter to the Romans - he referenced the prophet Hosea - who was talking about the Northern Kingdom in exile. So Paul was making a connection between the gentiles living in Rome - and the exiled northern kingdom of Israel.

I believe it’s very fair to say that all Christians may very well be the “lost sheep” of the northern kingdom of Israel - due to the amount of time that has past - chances are - you have an ancestor that was once part of the 12 tribes of Israel.

Of course - most don’t consider themselves to be “Israel” nor want to be “Israel.” That’s a mistake because the promise given to Abraham is through Israel - the house of Jacob.
 
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I'm not going to debate this. In fact I shouldn't post this...But here is my opinion for what it's worth.

Considering the timelines of Jeremiah and ezekiel I think those prophecies are already fulfilled. The destruction of the first temple by the Babylonians in 587 BC also brought the destruction of Jerusalem and much of Judea.

Both Jeremiah and ezekiel lives through that and were taken captive into Babylonian.

Just my cents.
 
I'm not going to debate this. In fact I shouldn't post this...But here is my opinion for what it's worth.

Considering the timelines of Jeremiah and ezekiel I think those prophecies are already fulfilled. The destruction of the first temple by the Babylonians in 587 BC also brought the destruction of Jerusalem and much of Judea.

Both Jeremiah and ezekiel lives through that and were taken captive into Babylonian.

Just my cents.
Couple of reasons why that can’t be true. Jerusalem was not left abandoned. The king of Babylon left the poor people. And it wasn’t in exile very long - Judah came back after about 70 years in captivity.

The 2nd temple that was built - is not even close to the temple that Ezekiel describes.

Also, if you read Ezekiel 40 through 48 - you’ll see it continues right after Ezekiel 37 - which deals with the 2nd exodus of “both the house of Israel and Judah,” an everlasting peace covenant (no more will they be kicked out of the land), and Prince David as king “forever and ever.” This prince is mentioned interacting with YAHUAH in Ezekiel 44. The Most High will be inside the temple. I believe it will be Elohim in the flesh - the Son - YAHUSHUA.

Ezekiel 43:4-6
The glory of YAHUAH entered the temple through the gate facing east. 5 Then the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court, and the glory of YAHUAH filled the temple. 6 While the man was standing beside me, I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple. 7 He said: “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever.

Ezekiel 44:2
YAHUAH said to me, “This gate is to remain shut. It must not be opened; no one may enter through it. It is to remain shut because YAHUAH, the Elohim of Israel, has entered through it. 3 The prince himself is the only one who may sit inside the gateway to eat in the presence of YAHUAH.

None of this has been fulfilled. So this is a future prophecy - which I believe will happen in our generation. Prince David isn’t reigning king. The whole world doesn’t know YAHUAH - from least to greatest - there isn’t a peace covenant - the remnant scattered across the world haven’t been brought back - no 3rd temple built - and many more clues this hasn't happened yet.
 
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Three different prophets. All referring to the 2nd Exodus and the return of the remnant (Israel and Judah), back to the land promised to Abraham:

Jeremiah 33:10 (referring to the 2nd Exodus)
“This is what YAHUAH says: You have said, ‘This is a desolate land where people and animals have all disappeared.’ Yet in the empty streets of Jerusalem and Judah’s other towns, there will be heard once more the sounds of joy and laughter.

Ezekiel 36:35 (referring to the 2nd Exodus)
And when I bring you back, people will say, ‘This former wasteland is now like the Garden of Eden! The abandoned and ruined cities now have strong walls and are filled with people!’

38 They will be as numerous as the sacred flocks that fill Jerusalem’s streets at the time of her festivals. The ruined cities will be crowded with people once more, and everyone will know that I am YAHUAH.”

Isaiah 49:14-15
14 Yet Jerusalem says, “YAHUAH has deserted us; YAHUAH has forgotten us.” 15 “Never! Can a mother forget her nursing child?

19 Even the most desolate parts of your abandoned land will soon be crowded with your people.

21 Then you will think to yourself, ‘Who has given me all these descendants? For most of my children were killed, and the rest were carried away into exile. I was left here all alone.

22 This is what YAHUAH says: “See, I will give a signal to the godless nations. They will carry your little sons back to you in their arms; they will bring your daughters on their shoulders.

---------------------------------------------------------
Here is the political state of Israel - before 1948:

View attachment 6388

It was not desolate. It was not abandoned. It was not ruined.

---------------------------------------------------------
So if YAHUAH's Israel is not Palestine - who formed her, and what is she? Scripture gives a clue:

Revelation 3:9
Look, I will force those who belong to Satan’s synagoguethose liars who say they are Jews but are not—to come and bow down at your feet. They will acknowledge that you are the ones I love.

Another big clue that they are the Synagogue of Satan:

View attachment 6389View attachment 6390View attachment 6391


Therefore, the political state of Israel is not the promise land. It's a counterfeit Israel created by the adversary. I'm not saying everyone living in Palestine's Israel is part of the synagogue of satan. Because just like the adversary controls the political state of Israel - he also controls the United States. I'm sure there may be true Israelites living there that keep the commandments, and faith in the Messiah. Because scripture says that the people of YAH are living in enemy territory until he brings them back; and that they are scattered among the nations. If you don't think you're living in enemy territory - try and get a marriage license for two wives. Or try and preach that two men lying together is an abomination worthy of the death penalty. Or that kidnappers deserve the death sentence - even though they were caught before they sold the victim to sex slavery. Yes - we're living behind enemy lines - regardless of which Christian nation you're living in today. South America. Europe. Or America. All the same.

Wherever the real Jerusalem is - she's desolate and abandoned. That's based on the Word of YAHUAH. From multiple prophets. She will remain desolate until the 2nd Exodus happens - then she will be like the Garden of Eden - and her people will have a everlasting peace covenant with the Most High.

Why did the adversary do that with Palestine? Multiple reasons - I imagine. One biblical reason is to confuse the Christian who the Israelites are. Christians are the "lost sheep" of Israel. Anyone on earth could be a lost sheep of Israel. Their numbers are like the sand on the seashore, but only a remnant will return. The Messiah is calling them back, so he can re-unite Judah and Israel back together - under Prince David - and usher in an everlasting peace covenant. Through the blood of the Messiah - we can be grafted into Israel. Praise YAH. Read Ezekiel 37:15-28. I personally believe this 2nd Exodus will happen in our generation.
This is false, Isaiah, Ezekiel and Jeremiah all tell us how desolate the Land was after the Babylonians. Also, there are literal names carved into rock that tell us that modern day Israel is historical Israel geographically. This is just an insane idea.
 
This is false, Isaiah, Ezekiel and Jeremiah all tell us how desolate the Land was after the Babylonians. Also, there are literal names carved into rock that tell us that modern day Israel is historical Israel geographically. This is just an insane idea.
It is an insane idea. The Biblical and historical evidence for the geographic location of Israel and Jerusalem is overwhelming.

The land was left desolate after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians.

It was also left desolate by the three large scale wars between the Jews and Rome between 66AD-136AD.
 
This is false, Isaiah, Ezekiel and Jeremiah all tell us how desolate the Land was after the Babylonians. Also, there are literal names carved into rock that tell us that modern day Israel is historical Israel geographically. This is just an insane idea.
The prophecy in Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 37 - that refer to Jerusalem being desolate - are both referring to a future time. Read it closely and you will see - it’s talking about events that we don’t see today. Such as “All will know YAHUAH from least to greatest.” “Prince David will be King.” “Everlasting Peace Covenant.” “The city will never again be captured or Destroyed.”

So it can’t be after the Babylonians captured it. Because it was destroyed once again by the Romans around 70 AD.

Names carved into rock can be done as deception - it’s not very difficult to sell a lie. It’s difficult to convince a lie has been taught as truth.

This isn’t a salvation issue - discussing where the promise land is. When the 2nd Exodus occurs - the Most High himself - will gather his remnant to the land. So if you’re blessed to be part of his chosen elect by grace - it will be something made known by the Most High - to his true servants.
 
. Such as “All will know YAHUAH from least to greatest.” “Prince David will be King.” “Everlasting Peace Covenant.” “The city will never again be captured or Destroyed.”
What if this is a reference to the New Covenant and the Spiritual Jerusalem that is the Bride of Christ (the Christian Church)?

Right now in other words

All true Christian believers know the One True God. Christ, the Son of David really is their King. They have an everlasting covenant of peace with God through the blood of the Lamb. The true Church of Christ will never be captured or destroyed.

It seems to fit
 
The prophecy in Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 37 - that refer to Jerusalem being desolate - are both referring to a future time. Read it closely and you will see - it’s talking about events that we don’t see today. Such as “All will know YAHUAH from least to greatest.” “Prince David will be King.” “Everlasting Peace Covenant.” “The city will never again be captured or Destroyed.”

So it can’t be after the Babylonians captured it. Because it was destroyed once again by the Romans around 70 AD.

Names carved into rock can be done as deception - it’s not very difficult to sell a lie. It’s difficult to convince a lie has been taught as truth.

This isn’t a salvation issue - discussing where the promise land is. When the 2nd Exodus occurs - the Most High himself - will gather his remnant to the land. So if you’re blessed to be part of his chosen elect by grace - it will be something made known by the Most High - to his true servants.
Those aren’t even close to being the only references to the desolation of Israel in those books. You simply haven’t actually studied this. Being weird for the sake of being weird is just weird.
 
What if this is a reference to the New Covenant and the Spiritual Jerusalem that is the Bride of Christ (the Christian Church)?

Right now in other words

All true Christian believers know the One True God. Christ, the Son of David really is their King. They have an everlasting covenant of peace with God through the blood of the Lamb. The true Church of Christ will never be captured or destroyed.

It seems to fit
The land is physical and on the Earth:

Ezekiel 37:25
They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your ancestors lived.

27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their Elohim, and they will be my people.

Then you have this description:

21 This is what Yahuah says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. 22 I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms.

24 My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd.

25 David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their Elohim, and they will be my people.

The prince David mentioned is probably not the Messiah
. If you read further:

Ezekiel 44:3
The prince himself is the only one who may sit inside the gateway to eat in the presence of the Most High.

But it appears to be the fulfillment of this prophecy (Speaking to King David):

2 Samuel 7:16
Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me; your throne will be established forever.

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Has this prophecy occurred? It hasn't. Okay - let's say the Israel in Palestine is "indeed" the true location. That's fine but in order for the above prophecy to fulfill, then this has to occur:

Ezekiel 36:34
The desolate land will be cultivated instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass through it. 35 They will say, “This land that was laid waste has become like the garden of Eden; the cities that were lying in ruins, desolate and destroyed, are now fortified and inhabited.

The Israel in Palestine would first need to become a desolate wasteland. And then you would still need an exodus to fulfill Ezekiel 37:21:

21 This is what Yahuah says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. 22 I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms.

So even if it is the true land - she would still need to become a desolate wasteland, and then wait another exodus. Back to square one - however you slice it.
 
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You quoted this ^^^. Why do you not believe what you posted above?
Who is they? The northern kingdom of Israel, and the southern kingdom of Judah. The offspring of Abraham - heirs to the promise - the chosen elect - those that are in the body of the Messiah.

Galatians 3:29
And if you are in the body of Yahushua (Christ), then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Psalm 105:8-10
8 He remembers his covenant forever, the promise he made, for a thousand generations, 9 the covenant he made with Abraham, the oath he swore to Isaac. 10 He confirmed it to Jacob as a decree, to Israel as an everlasting covenant.

We’re the lost sheep of the northern kingdom of Israel - through many generations in exile - we became gentiles. There is no 3rd category. Not one prophet mentions “Christian” in end times prophecies. It’s either gentile (foreigner/nations), or the House of Jacob - the commonwealth of Israel - the northern kingdom (Israel) and the southern (Judah). When the 2nd exodus happens - they will be re-United into “One Kingdom.” Just like they were during the time of King David. It hasn’t happened yet.

Paul says - we “former gentiles” are grafted into the “Olive Tree” which is the commonwealth of Israel - through the Messiah.

It hasn’t happened yet. The RothChilds were involved with the location of the Israel in Palestine, and they were involved in its formation.


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@Earth_is-, he wasn't talking about the identity of who returns to the land. He was pointing out that this verse clearly shows that the location of the land (whoever returns to it) is Palestine.
That is assuming that Palestine is the real land. It’s similar to “preaching about a different Jesus” that Paul warned about. The counterfeit may look like the real deal, but after a closer inspection you can see the differences.

Proverbs 18:17​

17 In a lawsuit the first to speak seems right, until someone comes forward and cross-examines.
 
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