Legalizing Marijuana = More People At Church?

[Paul not the apostle]

The problem with this whole marijuana thing and christianity is that if you allow the gooberment to say that a plant is against the law, then the gooberment will start outlawing all kinds of things. Call me a tin foil hat wearing fool, but eventually it will be against the law to buy or sell or consume raw milk, or the FDA will say something like "there is no history of human right to have any certain type of food", or the gooberment will outlaw some harmless plant (industrial hemp that cannot get you high even if you burned an entire field of it) that could save the world because the gooberment is bought and paid for by big business, or.....

maybe the new SB510 bill that makes it ok for the government to determine of you have the right to grow and share your own food.

oh wait! All the above has already happened or is close to happening!

It is time to wake up, learn that there are 3 legal definitions for "United States" and find out which one you belong to, which one you have sworn allegiance to, and what the rules and beliefs are for that particular "United States". I bet that most have NO CLUE that they serve and are bound legally to one that they DONT know about.

If a christian can't smoke weed to relax or for whatever, then a christian can't drink alcohol either. I don't personally care what anyone else thinks, just pick one side or the other and stop being double minded. I typically find that the ones who say that marijuana is bad or not beneficial according to the Word, are the ones that seem to also preach "freedom from the law" while shoving swineflesh in their mouths. Not every one of them, but most that I have encountered personally.


Marijuana is NOT a drug, it is a plant. It is just there, existing naturally and harming NOBODY. Drugs, including alcohol, are toxic, have the ability to cause addiction, have harmful side effects, and can easily cause death. If weed had ANY properties that could harm, I would be able to see why it needed to be regulated. As such, the concept of regulation is based on no firm foundation, and is without merit, and is only based on the notion that it is a drug, and should be watched so people can't harm themselves. But the problem is that it is impossible to administer in an unhealthy manner, and cannot cause overdose. You can overdose more quickly on WATER than marijuana. More people die from toasters every year than have ever in the history of mankind been killed by marijuana. Etc etc.

If this is the argument that is used, that potential abuse demands regulation, then we must regulate everything that can be abused, and in case you have not figured it out yet, it is THIS EXACT FRAME OF MIND that has led this once great land into mass legal confusion, and also the reason that the government now can claim necessity for intruding into every facet of our lives, church, educating our children, what we can eat or grow to eat, or purchase to consume.

Even the Lord Himself isn't this oppressive in His Law and instruction.

 

[Paul not the apostle]

Sure, there will be more people at church. It's a great place to go on the nod. Everybody else already does.

This is one of the funniest and saddest posts here on BF, should I laugh or cry at this nugget of wisdom?

 

[rubicon]

Paul, I can see you feel pretty strongly about this topic (maybe more about regulation than church attendance based on marijuana).
Thank you for taking the time to share all of that.

 

[DiscussingTheTopic]

There is such a thing as responsible and irresponsible use.

Government officials do not have superpowers to make something responsible or irresponsible by making something legal or illegal.

Under either circumstance, people must learn to use things responsibly instead of irresponsibly.

Although a vast number of users use that substance irresponsibly that does not mean it should be outlawed for those who can use it responsibly.

By the way I have no intention to use the substance at the present time. For I intend to avoid being irresponsible, furthermore from what I have heard about it and what people who have used it tell me the idea of using such a substance is repulsive to me.

 

[DiscussingTheTopic]

If legalizing polygyny could help generate money.......

There would be much less support then legalizing bad things that help generate money.........

I would guess that at least half of all people have reprobate minds.......... Which is quite related to this point.

 

[Anonymous]

by Paul not the apostle

CecilW wrote:
Sure, there will be more people at church. It's a great place to go on the nod. Everybody else already does.

This is one of the funniest and saddest posts here on BF, should I laugh or cry at this nugget of wisdom?

Paul, I know what you mean, we'd might as well laugh. I have thought of selling cures for insomnia, sermon tapes. It appears to be fool proof.

If only we had the passion for the things of God that we have for the NFL.

 

[Paul not the apostle]

Paul, I can see you feel pretty strongly about this topic (maybe more about regulation than church attendance based on marijuana).
Thank you for taking the time to share all of that.

Yes, but not in the way that everybody is probably thinking. Some of the things that piss me off about Cannabis and Christians come from the same roots that piss me off about polygamy.

The same tired and illogical arguments. It is illegal, it is abusive, it is not prohibited in scripture but it is implied to be bad, I don't want it so you can't have it either, I saw someone abuse it once so it is bad...and the list goes on. The things that are said about poly and pot are so similar. Everybody runs away with their hair on fire at the mention of marriage plural and mary wanna? In reality, they are the lesser of ALL the evils that are on the table, and are God's perfect gift for resolving so many issues in our lives.

Divorce, latch key kids, separate homes, weak men, infidelity.....poly can solve them.
Arguing with your spouse and the sex life is dead or awkward? Eat a couple of these cookies together and you forget what you were mad about, and the next morning there is a "DO NOT DISTURB" sign on the door.

Today, a christian can use fatigue, depression, obesity, stress, diabetes, or thousands of any other "symptoms" to justify going to a doctor and getting some pill made by some company. This is using man's wisdom to develop something that is toxic, has never been proven to work, has life threatening effects, and all of those pills together kill over 100,000 people a year BY ACCIDENT. And most if not ALL of those health issues are caused by the diet and lifestyle of these believers in the first place.

Marijuana has been proven for thousands of years to be the ultimate resource for mankind in thousands of ways. Given by God for proper use and enjoyment if received and used in thanksgiving and in a responsible manner. Using alcohol to relax is not an issue for christians, even though alcohol has thousands of lives under it's tombstone every year. But try to tell a believer to eat a pot brownie to relax and you get kicked out as fast as those crazy polygamy sinners. I have hard time existing in this non logical worldview.

Secondly, I did not grow up around pot, never even saw it until I was probably in my mid to late twenties. I have never seen it being abused so I come from a different mentality than most people. Actually I find that most people only know it is bad because of social training. My time in the military showed me all the destruction cause by alcohol. Family history showed me the destruction caused by alcohol. Prescription drugs (biggest scam in the medical field) have always been nonsense in my mind, and in my businesses and in dealing with employees, I would MUCH rather have a stoner working for me than someone on prescription drugs.

In addition, I have friends whose lives were saved by smoking marijuana or consuming medibles (marijuana foods). My best friend from the military was hopped up on all kinds of Rx due to Gulf War Syndrome, and it drove him to suicide attempts. A doctor put him on weed, and he is great now.

I have a friend that was in a car wreck, is in a wheelchair for life, and drugs do nothing for him, but Mary is his best friend, and helps the pain when nothing else will.

I have a friend with an autistic son, 11 years old and stuck with a 18 month old mind. Rx made the family life a living hell for ten years, and then the son was given only 4 months to live due to his deterioration. The family could not leave him in the same room with their other children due to his violent outbursts and this made them live in a state of near destitution. They moved to a medical marijuana state and gave him a pot brownie every fourth day. Within 15 minutes of his first dose, he was calm and has now gained back 50 pounds, and is trying to use words and talk. Their lives have been saved, not by man, or man's drugs, or man's wisdom, but by the Almighty and His wonderful creation.

You can read their story here at Treating Yourself magazine. The story is called "Joey's Journey. Marijuana saves Child's Life."

http://www.treatingyourself.com/pdf/issue23.pdf

Marijuana saves lives and is a miracle cure for many things. I have seen this with my own eyes. I have seen marijuana compounds (not smoking it) applied to rashes that disappeared in hours. The person had that particular rash for YEARS and no prescription or treatment had worked.

I have seen a person with a cast on that had such bad swelling that they would pass out from the pain, prescription drugs made the swelling worse, and even a prescription anti-inflammatory was ineffective. But two portions of Mary and in five minutes you could actually SEE the swelling go down to the point that you could stick your finger in between the cast and the arm. AMAZING. Of course, he did put his head back and sleep, but that was a GOOD thing. And yes, it was a joint that I rolled for him and put it in his mouth. And I fired up that blessed herb and it delivered him from his pain and suffering. He cried he was so happy and he was thanking God the whole time.

I had my forearm crushed several months ago. I have been through the surgeries and everything else and the doctor basically told me that there is nothing he can do about my arm being any better than it is now, he has no solutions. The pain is often intense and wakes me up every two hours at night. I can't play tickle with my kids or do many things that I used to be able to do. The Rx made me cranky, gave me headaches, and gave other problems that are not good for a poly minded man to have.

But put some marijuana into a jar of coconut oil and heat it up in the crock pot for several hours and I have a healing oil that not only takes away the pain, but is causing my arm to heal up and be restored, flexing and everything. And I don't get high from it, the relief lasts for about two days, and I even get to play with my kids and can hold a cup of coffee now.

Yeah, I love Mary, but not any more than garlic tonic for my sore throat, or jalapenos for blood circulation. It is just another part of God's creation that has its proper place in my life. And no, I don't get glaucoma every Friday night.

 

[steve]

maybe if the churches just switch to pauls Maryjane Annointing Oil :!:
they'l have 'em lined up out into the street

(reserved for only those who stay awake, they can rest during the game)

 

[Dr. K.R. Allen]

Regardless or whether it is legal, illegal, or approved or not approved by society that is not the main question in the first place.

The Lord is opposed to anyone taking anything, marijuana, alcohol, or any other natural or unnatural drug, for the purpose of being intoxicated or for the purpose of that being the means by which ones experiences peace or overcomes stress or arguments or whatever is at the root a spiritual problem.

Ephesians 5:17-18 specifically applies: "Therefore, do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. Do not get drunk with wine, drunkeness is debuachery, but be filled with the Spirit."

Any drugf that causes someone to loose control of themselves and not to be able to be self-controlled, which is a part of the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23) is not something we saints should use or at least not use to the degree where we loose control.

We have the Spirit, the greatest being and greatest influence over our lives, and that is enough for us to be mature in the way we relate to one another and enough to give us mental and spiritual peace, that is if we walk in the Spirit.

As for physiological reasons, man is a holistic duality and if there is a medical reason involved then the use of a drug, alcohol, marijuana, or other natural or man-made remedies are acceptable and pleasing in the sight of the Lord as such is a work of mercy and thus justified in God's kingdom order.

However, even with things such as alcohol, it may not be something everyone can use or be fine with. Some people's conscience is not to that poiint and thus it would be sin for them to use any amount of alcohol (see Rom. 14). But some may use it without any offense to God or to their own conscience. But this is a conscience issue not a universal law issue. But intoxication is indeed a universal law issue. No drug of any type is to be used to be intoxicated, defined herein as a mental state that is not under self-control, no matter if society approves or does not approve because a higher law applies, the law of Christ that tells us to use the Spirit as our means to the high experience.

And personally, I'd rather experience the high of being filled, immersed, baptized, clothed, annointed, or whatever vernacular one wants to use per one's own theological persuasion, in the highest of all highs, in the Spirit, than resort to anything that is a substitute of the real love experience of the Spirit.

Again, by this I am not suggesting that marijuana should be banned or that it should be kept in an illegal status, as if it were placed in the same category as alcohol it would be reasonable. Furthermore, the use of alcohol or any other drug to help for pain or to be a physical aid in times of suffering, which sometimes means the use to such a degree that some self-control is loss, would not per se be a sin. But any use of any drug to try and gain an experience or a high to overcome personal issues that are rooted in sin or immaturity should not be used by any saint. That is the wrong means to the goal of overcoming the issue. Intoxication as a means to overcome sin or arguments or selfishness that led to the argument, or whatever sin it might have been, cannot be overcome by drugs. The Lord has given to us himself as the means to overcome those issues.

 

[lutherangirl]

maybe if the churches just switch to pauls Maryjane Annointing Oil :!:
they'l have 'em lined up out into the street

(reserved for only those who stay awake, they can rest during the game)

Now, Steve, it looks like you hold the 'dangerous radical' title. :lol:

I know you men like a challenge, so to answer my silly woman question, would you all be so bold enough to ask some of your pot smoking, non-church attending friends/family the question--If Maryjane smoking was legal would you go to church? This could be a good way to break the ice and just get them talking regarding on the personal stance of this issue.

 

[Paul not the apostle]

The Lord is opposed to anyone taking anything, marijuana, alcohol, or any other natural or unnatural drug, for the purpose of being intoxicated or for the purpose of that being the means by which ones experiences peace or overcomes stress or arguments or whatever is at the root a spiritual problem.

I am probably closer to your stance on this than is revealed by my posts, but if the above statement is true, then what does the verse that I posted previously fit into this?

Pro 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Pro 31:7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

I think that stoners use the medical side of marijuana to justify their desire to use it to get high all the time.
I think that prohibitionists use stoners getting high all the time to justify their attitude against marijuana.

 

[Dr. K.R. Allen]

Why when it comes to the great commission (Matthew 28:18-20) a saint ought to be mature enough (or seeking to be mature enough) to discuss any and every topic of interest of another. The bible tells us to be "concerned not only for our own interests but also the interests of others" (see Phil. 2). So yes, as saints we ought to be able to or willing to learn whatever is necessary about someone we love in order to build a relationship in that person's life just as Christ became human to build a relational status with people. This is actually the theological/doctrinal foundation to the Philippians 2 text. Christ, who is equal with God, set aside that functional equality and came to earth as human in order to re-establish a relationship with us and then to take that and re-establish that back to God through his substitutionary death on a cross where he took the wrath of God upon himself (1 John 2:2). Proverbs 11:30 even goes so far to speak of it being the verification of wisdom if one is able to "capture/win" souls.

So yes not only to this issue but many many more issues. As saints we will, if we truly love God and people, seek to be educated in the vicissitude of ideas, practices, and customs of the land in which we live. This is part of what Paul meant when he said: to the Gentiles he became a Gentile, to the Jews he became a Jew so that he might win some. Love, God's chief motivation in all he does, is to be our ultimate goal and such love will naturally lead us to dialog with people with whom we even differ with and not just to dialog with them but to do so in a non-offensive, not judgmental tone or means, so that we may gain their trust as we disciple them towards trust in Christ as Lord and Savior. Even if we deplore the idea, practice, or custom it serves the mission of the gospel well for us to be mission focused, love focused in serving them even while they might be enemies knowing that we too were once enemies, served by Christ even while we were unlovable (and still at times are now).

How could any saint not be willing to dialog, befriend, and talk to an enemy of the Lord if he or she really is in grace and understands the whole concept of unconditional love and grace whereby God chose to save us defiled, corrupt, evil, wretched, rotten, scum living creatures through coming to us relationally through the God-Man Jesus who served us even to the point of dying for us so that we might shine like radiant jewels, as saints, glorious character reflections of the image of God now set apart for all of the universe to see (Eph 2:5-7)? I say it is radically ridiculous to suggest such when one really understands the concept of salvation. Scum turned into sainthood leaves the saint humbled enough that he too will go humble himself just like Christ did when he humbled himself to leave glory to come here to serve us who were full of sin/scum. we saints who understand just how bad we once were are willing to go back into that cesspool and get all around the dirt because of love which drives us, compels us to love them as Christ so loved us. Those who live the neo-monastic, self-centered, let us be spatially separate and aloof as we shout holy commands, Pharisee like lives today and refuse to befriend a wayward wart fail to see just how wayward of a wart we all were and what Christ really did in coming to redeem us. They are like Apostle Peter said, "short-sighted," i.e. if they really ever did have true sight to begin with.

Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, grace that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost, but now I'm found. I once was blind but now I see. And part of that seeing is a determination to sacrifice ourselves, even our own comfortability (as Christ modeled for us), in order to go seek out those who are still lost, blind, and wretched. To do anything less and yet still call it Christianity is a slanderous scandal!

 

[Dr. K.R. Allen]

The Lord is opposed to anyone taking anything, marijuana, alcohol, or any other natural or unnatural drug, for the purpose of being intoxicated or for the purpose of that being the means by which ones experiences peace or overcomes stress or arguments or whatever is at the root a spiritual problem.

I am probably closer to your stance on this than is revealed by my posts, but if the above statement is true, then what does the verse that I posted previously fit into this?

Pro 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Pro 31:7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

I think that stoners use the medical side of marijuana to justify their desire to use it to get high all the time.
I think that prohibitionists use stoners getting high all the time to justify their attitude against marijuana.

The difference as far as I can tell is one of intoxication versus mild or moderate use. For example, in Psalm 104:14 the Bible says, "He makes the grass [natural element] grow for the cattle, and plants for man to cultivate--bringing forth food from the earth: wine [a product of natural elements going through a natural process] that gladdens the heart of man, oil [a natural substance] to make his face shine, and bread [a natural substance] that sustains his heart/life."

Now, as one good fella said to the Baptist who was doing all he could to make this "wine" really be grape juice, "Drink all the wine you want, it will not gladden the heart of man but if too much grape juice is drank it will certainly upset the stomach but it will not make you glad unless there is an alcoholic element to this."

Titus 1:15 would also likely apply in certain situations. To the pure all things are pure. Thus it would go back to the conscience or heart motivation. A gladdened heart is not the same as an intoxicated heart. The use of some elements in moderation would not per see constitute sin. It could be sin though if the person using it was doing so as a way to compensate for a lack of joy in his or her life due to sin. But if there is no sin or anything then moderate use of such things as wine or alcohol, which even in small doses such as one or two or three glasses, can still alter the mood of a person but still not make him or her intoxicated.

Additionally contextually the Proverbs text, along with this Psalms text, falls into a literary genre of wisdom literature with broad general guides that still allow for exceptions. Coupling that together with a specific focus to the differing terms used, a product of literal hermeneutics, we see two concepts here: "strong drink," and the "wine" which is not as strong. And then one last rule, contextual rules of both immediate and broad contexts to govern. These three rules I think help us arrive at a coherent position of how this can be applicable.

Thus, as it seems to me several issues apply or come to fruit by following those three rules:

1. The general principle for all is that when people are in serious pain or misery others [I will define those others in a moment by way of context] may come to their aid by offering or giving unto them something of foreign aid beyond their own human bodies to offer comfort. In short this is the mercy rule or principle. We see James speaking of this in James 2:12. What is the norm, someone living day to day without any foreign means to alter their bodies, is here placed in an exception category.

2. We see degrees of misery here. One man is about to perish. To him he is to be given something very strong. One is not about to perish but he has come to a point of such bitterness or such ruin that he simply cannot function anymore. This would be like someone who has become what we call today in our vernacular, psychotic or mentally of such anguish they cannot function as a normal or reasonable person. The term here in Hebrew carries the idea of severe weeping, such or to a degree that it is fierce and overpowering of the person. In other places in the OT where this term is used it means someone has come to such a point that they are now outside the boundaries of normality. For example, in this same book Proverbs 27:7 we see a person who is in such a dire situation that what is normally not even considered a food source is now considered not only to be a food source but even a sweet one due to the deep, serious, and unbearable circumstance they are now in which leads the person to consider what is normally bad as being sweet and now good. The view of this is someone who is so miserable, so bitter, that they are no longer functioning within the bounds of what normal people or most people are within in a day to day cycle of life. They are not yet to the point of death, and maybe the illness has no deadly like effects, but the misery and bitterness has indeed overcome them. They then are to be given aid to help them forget and move past this bitterness that has overtaken them.

3. We also see in this text who these guides were given to, a King, someone who was overseeing, guiding, and controlling how the people were handled in these times. This is set by context of Proverbs 31:1 where we see this is specifically guidance given to a King, or one who is in charge. Thus it is an authority figure who will be the one administering the aid. The literal interpretation yields no idea of people just running wild among themselves taking into themselves substances for pleasure just because of a bad day or because of some momentary desire to escape the world of reality as they get stoned. This was a specific guide that a King took to heart in how to handle people who were (a) dying, and (b) people who became so ruined by bitterness or inner heart issues that they had become overpowered by such a degree of misery that they were now considered by all societal standards someone who could not reason or function anymore. In today's world we normally see these people as psychotic, or people who no longer can handle life and are irrational, unable to carry on by themselves in normal functions of life without some aid to get them over this or to get them to a point where they can cope again. Some of these people are also the ones who we term "mental break down patients," their nerves have overloaded and they just cannot function anymore. Unto these the King, the ones in authority in that society, were to give some type of aid to which could be even to the point of causing them to forget their pain and agony. We must always keep in mind that love is the underlying basis to all of the laws. The reason there is to be someone overseeing this is because of love; an outside neutral overseer can make better calls as to how much to give or when to give it and can also see to it that there are other controls in place so that the person is not seriously endangered by the use of the substance being offered to the person. A person self-administering powerful substances like this might make bad decisions with the substances and do more harm than good to themselves.

4. A broad contextual issue, one which I will not explore here at length, is also one of covenant shifts or administrative shifts in the Bible. In the OT saints, or of the saints who lived prior to the cross, did not have the indwelling of the Spirit on an ongoing basis as NC saints, or those living after the cross. Christ spoke of this in John 14:17. Since we must take each and every word as inspired Christ changed his terms in the same sentence. In one phrase he said the Spirit was "with" the disciples but in the future that Spirit "will be in you." These precise and specific grammatical shifts in verb tenses from the present tense with a preposition of "with" to the future verb tense of "will be" along with the prepositional change to "in" make a stark contrast between the life of one in the prior era to the life of a saint now in this era. The resources available to a saint then was less than the saint today who now has the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit. And this was likely one of the backgrounds to why Paul had to deal with the Ephesus people as he did with his statement. They were likely thinking that since the prior era of time allowed people to drink as an aid to misery that this was a ground or enough of a principle to use as a means of being spiritual today. In other words, they likely thought they could get drunk and since that intoxicated state makes one happy and joyful this is a means unto being truly spiritual. But Paul, now living in the new age of the pneumatokos (age of the indwelling and ever present empowering Spirit), as Dr. Gordon D. Fee rightly says, drives the people to use the greatest resource of all, the Holy Spirit as the means to experience that euphoric sense of peace and joy that can come through this new life in the Spirit. Granted, even if one rejects this ideology here of a change, which is hard to do in light of the specific verbs shifts in one sentence if one is honest with the grammar, the principle of 1-3 above would still not leave anyone with room to use those texts as a basis for personal use of alcohol, or any similar substance, for the purpose of pleasurable intoxication. The difference between a merry heart or joyful heart is very different than a heart that does not remember or is intoxicated (a stage of loss of control of memory, faculties etc).

Summary:

-Alcohol or any body/mind altering substance is not evil in and of itself. The way it is used is the real issue.

-Intoxication is sin. Intoxication is defined as a loss of mental or physical faculties (such as memory, self-control, etc).

-Authorized people of a society, or duly recognized leaders, or government leaders, or those who oversee in an area may use the mercy rule to lead people to intoxicated states if sickness or death is near or if a person has loss normal control already and is already overwhelmed by some circumstance of their life to where they are not able to function in a normal manner. The sicker one is the more potent the material may be; if less serious less potent materials are to be used which is the difference between strong drink and wine (lesser of the two in strength).

-The goal of a saint is to be filled with joy by the Spirit, not through being intoxicated with intoxicating substances.

-Some wine (material; substance) that is used by those with a free conscience may lighten their hearts and make them glad, but that is different and not the same category as intoxication. Moderate use is not the same as much use.

 

[nicola]

Shalom everyone! Marijuana is a herb and as stated in Genesis 1:29 states "I have given you every herb bearing seed",

Uhm, so is poison ivy.

Not everything is beneficial.

Poison Ivy is a plant, not a herb.

-Intoxication is sin. Intoxication is defined as a loss of mental or physical faculties (such as memory, self-control, etc).

The Scriptures state "be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit". Drunkenness is a sin, not intoxication. Thanks to the Creator of all, we are all unique. Everything given affects everyone differently. There are 1000s who enjoy a peanut butter &jelly sandwich daily, but millions who are allergic to peanut butter. Yet, is given by the Creator for meat. Marijuana when smoked has a different effect when cooked, it produces healing for a number of ailments and mental conditions.

Also, the Scriptures state "Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more." I believe at times, it is healthy for one to forget their troubles.

 

[Dr. K.R. Allen]

I'm not sure where you find a difference in meaning from drunkeness and intoxication. I am using the two terms as synonyms.

Also, the Scriptures state "Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more." I believe at times, it is healthy for one to forget their troubles.

The context, which I have elaborated on earlier above these two posts, shows that this statement is given in a context of someone who is suffering severe distress to such a point that government or authorities of that area actually endorse or use the alcohol to be an aid. It is not a verse that supports the idea of a person drinking to such a degree that they forget (see prior explanation). This alcohol was to be used for those dying and for those who had lost all ability to function in normal daily life, i.e. those who were suffering from mental or nervous discorders.

I'll post the portion of that post which applies herein to the alcohol issue In this Proverbs text we find:

2. We see degrees of misery here. One man is about to perish. To him he is to be given something very strong. One is not about to perish but he has come to a point of such bitterness or such ruin that he simply cannot function anymore. This would be like someone who has become what we call today in our vernacular, psychotic or mentally of such anguish they cannot function as a normal or reasonable person. The term here in Hebrew carries the idea of severe weeping, such or to a degree that it is fierce and overpowering of the person. In other places in the OT where this term is used it means someone has come to such a point that they are now outside the boundaries of normality. For example, in this same book Proverbs 27:7 we see a person who is in such a dire situation that what is normally not even considered a food source is now considered not only to be a food source but even a sweet one due to the deep, serious, and unbearable circumstance they are now in which leads the person to consider what is normally bad as being sweet and now good. The view of this is someone who is so miserable, so bitter, that they are no longer functioning within the bounds of what normal people or most people are within in a day to day cycle of life. They are not yet to the point of death, and maybe the illness has no deadly like effects, but the misery and bitterness has indeed overcome them. They then are to be given aid to help them forget and move past this bitterness that has overtaken them.

3. We also see in this text who these guides were given to, a King, someone who was overseeing, guiding, and controlling how the people were handled in these times. This is set by context of Proverbs 31:1 where we see this is specifically guidance given to a King, or one who is in charge. Thus it is an authority figure who will be the one administering the aid. The literal interpretation yields no idea of people just running wild among themselves taking into themselves substances for pleasure just because of a bad day or because of some momentary desire to escape the world of reality as they get stoned. This was a specific guide that a King took to heart in how to handle people who were (a) dying, and (b) people who became so ruined by bitterness or inner heart issues that they had become overpowered by such a degree of misery that they were now considered by all societal standards someone who could not reason or function anymore. In today's world we normally see these people as psychotic, or people who no longer can handle life and are irrational, unable to carry on by themselves in normal functions of life without some aid to get them over this or to get them to a point where they can cope again. Some of these people are also the ones who we term "mental break down patients," their nerves have overloaded and they just cannot function anymore. Unto these the King, the ones in authority in that society, were to give some type of aid to which could be even to the point of causing them to forget their pain and agony. We must always keep in mind that love is the underlying basis to all of the laws. The reason there is to be someone overseeing this is because of love; an outside neutral overseer can make better calls as to how much to give or when to give it and can also see to it that there are other controls in place so that the person is not seriously endangered by the use of the substance being offered to the person. A person self-administering powerful substances like this might make bad decisions with the substances and do more harm than good to themselves.

Therefore, there is never a single verse anywhere in the Bible where we are justified to drink to such a point where we forget our troubles. That is a state of drunkeness or intoxication when we begin to lose or do lose our ability to think clearly.

 

[DiscussingTheTopic]

I think this whole debate goes back to appropriate and inappropriate use of a substance. It largely has to do with intention and knowledge and the situation. Do any of you realize that cough syrup, tea and coffee are all mind effecting, in fact even food is mind effecting because your brain needs glucose to operate, does that mean that Christians cannot use any portion of cough syrup, tea, coffee, or food?

Caffeine is band in the olympics

 

[DiscussingTheTopic]

Are you familiar with the women who had the spirit of divination also known as python in acts 16:16

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cf ... JV#conc/16

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 4436&t=KJV

1) in Greek mythology the name of the Pythian serpent or dragon that dwelt in the region of Pytho at the foot of Parnassus in Phocis, and was said to have guarded the oracle at Delphi and been slain by Apollo

2) a spirit of divination

Some people claimed that there were mind-effecting substances that came out of the earth at a specific location, and people at that location, prophesied, demonically under the influence of drugs. Some people try to connect mind-effecting drugs with witchcraft and demons.

Sorcery in King James in Revelation 22:15 comes from a Greek word G5333 that sounds very similar to pharmacy it is pharmakos when transliterated into Latin or English letters. And it is related to a word G5332 word that involves "remedies." If you trust the information from blueletterbible I gave

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cf ... JV#conc/15

pharmakos

φάρμακος

Root Word (Etymology)

The same as φαρμακεύς (G5332)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 5333&t=KJV

φαρμακεύς

pharmakeus

1) one who prepares or uses magical remedies

2) sorcerer

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 5332&t=KJV

 

[Jim]

marajauna should be available as is alcohal, and the other drugs as prescription drugs. this would take the high profit away and decrease the killing. as for the church, if the truth from the inspired word was studied, rightly divided, and believed by more christains, buildings would be overflowing.