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Just a straight answer please

This actually comes up quite often in Christian polygamy circles and it has two forms:

1. Both wives at the same time with no wife contact with each other
2. Both wives at the same time with wives pleasing each other also.

I feel like there is room for a third option between those two.

1.5: Both wives at the same time with natural physical contact.

Women frequently relate physically in ways that would be unnatural for men. I am sure you have noticed the difference between how two female friends will hang out on a couch and how two male friends will. They will often share a blanket, sit on the other's lap, or put their head on the other's chest while they chat. Women will go into dressing rooms together to try on clothes, hug more often than two men will, do each other's hair, and generally are more physically comfortable together.

Usually this is more common among young women and they progressivly grow further apart as they distance themselves in an independent, monogamous, and feminist society. If an affinity for intragender physically relating is a female attribute, then masculanizing women will reduce this attribute.

Observing this "natural law" in the differences between men and women is part of what convinced me that polygyny is natural. If a man tries to imagine what would be going through a woman's head when she is touched by another woman, by comparing it to what would go through his head if a man tried to relate to him in that same way then of course he will be affronted! Men are different than women, so that's a wrong comparison to make.

Physical contact between women is, in my opinion, a pretty normal thing. I wouldn't want a massage from a man, and my wife would only want a massage from a woman or from me. Its a pretty stark difference when you think about it. Women are just created to be more comfortable with each other. (That's a clue)

In a plural marriage, I always figured sharing a bed on occasion is something that would naturally occur - like if everyone wanted to be together. If you flirt with two wives all day, you are not going to lock one out at night. If they both want to celebrate your birthday, why stop them? Would you really book seperate rooms on a vacation? You wouldn't take turns changing clothes in a hotel bathroom would you? Sometimes its best to let things take their natural course and not force something one way or another. It probably depends on the personalities of your women a lot too. I'm sure it is probably harder to share a man when you are older and have never done so before.

I get a sense from Scripture that community in worship is preffered over isolation in worship. If we are united by one Lord, then our focus is on him. It doesn't mean that we can't fulfill needs within the body, just that we shouldn't be so consumed by getting a churchy social club high that we ignore the reason we gather.

"Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ? Since there is one bread, we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the one bread."
1 Corinthians 10:16‭-‬17 NASB

I think that's the line we should be drawing here. Are the women united by the man's body, or by each other's?

"We love because He first loved us"!
(There's a lot in that little verse)
 
There is no scriptural reason to prohibit 2 women from being together with or without a man present. Obviously wisdom implies that a man wouldn't allow his woman to be with anyone outside of her sister wife or wives but it's not prohibited either way. This is at the discretion of the man.
 
So I'm back. Somehow wife and I ended up watching a poly movie (they all seem very secular) about the creator of Wonder Woman. There were some very beautiful aspects of that movie, although some of the portrayal made me uncomfortable due to the other sexual aspects of it. I would still like to see more resources from scripture or at least culturally of the sexual customs of polygamist believers throughout time. Are there any other references? Even non-biblical ones? I just need to help resolve this in my mind. This has taken us through deep discussion. We find that conducting the relationship I guess in a more interoperative way sounds way more appealing to us, and just don't know what to do with that. My wife firmly re-emphasizes that these are not lesbian tendencies on her part, rather the desire to be submissive, but also the desire to have a heart-felt love for whatever individual comes into our life, a love as strong as mine would be. I agree with her. The problem is all the reference material available is from a secular perspective and confuses the homosexual aspect which we completely reject. We do not want to be outside of God's will. So we constantly pray about these things. It just seems in our daily life more things are constantly pointing in the direction of polygamy. We agree that really God will do what he does and provide, I guess I just fear leading us in the wrong direction. Another aspect of that particular story is (in real life) when these women lost their "Husband" they stayed together for the remaining 38 years of them both being alive. Just feeling very confused with feelings that all surround the sexual, the wholesome family aspect, the interoperative almost "throuple" idea of it, etc.
 
What’s the reference about not taking your wife’s sister to lie next to her as a rival someone? If you realize what all this verse is implicitly allowing this question becomes moot. No penis no sex. It’s only sex if it is a reflection of God’s relationship with the church. This is why male homosexuality is such an egregious sin, it represents two gods, thereby transgressing the foundational Law of Creation, heat O Israel, the Lord your God is one God. Women can do whatever they want with each other because it is not sex.
 
So I'm back. Somehow wife and I ended up watching a poly movie (they all seem very secular) about the creator of Wonder Woman. There were some very beautiful aspects of that movie, although some of the portrayal made me uncomfortable due to the other sexual aspects of it. I would still like to see more resources from scripture or at least culturally of the sexual customs of polygamist believers throughout time. Are there any other references? Even non-biblical ones? I just need to help resolve this in my mind. This has taken us through deep discussion. We find that conducting the relationship I guess in a more interoperative way sounds way more appealing to us, and just don't know what to do with that. My wife firmly re-emphasizes that these are not lesbian tendencies on her part, rather the desire to be submissive, but also the desire to have a heart-felt love for whatever individual comes into our life, a love as strong as mine would be. I agree with her. The problem is all the reference material available is from a secular perspective and confuses the homosexual aspect which we completely reject. We do not want to be outside of God's will. So we constantly pray about these things. It just seems in our daily life more things are constantly pointing in the direction of polygamy. We agree that really God will do what he does and provide, I guess I just fear leading us in the wrong direction. Another aspect of that particular story is (in real life) when these women lost their "Husband" they stayed together for the remaining 38 years of them both being alive. Just feeling very confused with feelings that all surround the sexual, the wholesome family aspect, the interoperative almost "throuple" idea of it, etc.
Make sure you read what @Mojo said about this movie in another thread (emphasis mine):
"Professor Marston and the Wonder Women" is a movie that explores the real life polygynous relationship of the creator of Wonder Woman and DISC theory.

It was directed by a lesbian and, of course explored, the bisexuality of his two wives. There was only one problem. The grandchildren denied the wives were bisexual and dismissed large aspects of the movie as fiction. One family member was quoted as "They (the two wives) shared a roof, not the same bed."

For those of us who don't have Netflix, keep us posted on the comings and goings of the three.
Don't use that movie to inform your understanding of "the sexual customs of polygamists". The sexual aspects of this movie were invented by the producer to spice up the movie and get more people to watch it. They're fiction.
 
So I'm back. Somehow wife and I ended up watching a poly movie (they all seem very secular) about the creator of Wonder Woman. There were some very beautiful aspects of that movie, although some of the portrayal made me uncomfortable due to the other sexual aspects of it. I would still like to see more resources from scripture or at least culturally of the sexual customs of polygamist believers throughout time. Are there any other references? Even non-biblical ones? I just need to help resolve this in my mind. This has taken us through deep discussion. We find that conducting the relationship I guess in a more interoperative way sounds way more appealing to us, and just don't know what to do with that. My wife firmly re-emphasizes that these are not lesbian tendencies on her part, rather the desire to be submissive, but also the desire to have a heart-felt love for whatever individual comes into our life, a love as strong as mine would be. I agree with her. The problem is all the reference material available is from a secular perspective and confuses the homosexual aspect which we completely reject. We do not want to be outside of God's will. So we constantly pray about these things. It just seems in our daily life more things are constantly pointing in the direction of polygamy. We agree that really God will do what he does and provide, I guess I just fear leading us in the wrong direction. Another aspect of that particular story is (in real life) when these women lost their "Husband" they stayed together for the remaining 38 years of them both being alive. Just feeling very confused with feelings that all surround the sexual, the wholesome family aspect, the interoperative almost "throuple" idea of it, etc.

I am in the middle of a review on Marston's psychology book, "emotions of normal people" which I just finished reading. Look for it in the book review section here in a few days.

Marston observed a distinct difference between the results of male-male and female-female relationships. I'll expound more when I post my review.
 
What’s the reference about not taking your wife’s sister to lie next to her as a rival someone? If you realize what all this verse is implicitly allowing this question becomes moot. No penis no sex. It’s only sex if it is a reflection of God’s relationship with the church. This is why male homosexuality is such an egregious sin, it represents two gods, thereby transgressing the foundational Law of Creation, heat O Israel, the Lord your God is one God. Women can do whatever they want with each other because it is not sex.

I freaking love you man! My heart just skipped a beat reading your beautiful words! :rolleyes:

#BeardedBeastWisdom
#BFbromance
 
So I'm back. Somehow wife and I ended up watching a poly movie (they all seem very secular) about the creator of Wonder Woman. There were some very beautiful aspects of that movie, although some of the portrayal made me uncomfortable due to the other sexual aspects of it. I would still like to see more resources from scripture or at least culturally of the sexual customs of polygamist believers throughout time. Are there any other references?

I believe that the Bible gives us everything we need to follow God righteously. I find the lack of details (except for maybe the generalities in the Song of Solomon about sex being good) significant. If it were important for us to avoid something the Bible would say so. I doubt we are the first people to think of this. It seems obvious to me that if it were wrong it would say so, and it does not. If you are truly following God, and you enjoy it and it seems like a blessing to your family and there is no scripture against it, then I see no reason to trouble your conscience about it although you should probably avoid it as long as it does (or the conscience of anyone else participating).

Even non-biblical ones? I just need to help resolve this in my mind. This has taken us through deep discussion. We find that conducting the relationship I guess in a more interoperative way sounds way more appealing to us, and just don't know what to do with that. My wife firmly re-emphasizes that these are not lesbian tendencies on her part, rather the desire to be submissive, but also the desire to have a heart-felt love for whatever individual comes into our life, a love as strong as mine would be. I agree with her. The problem is all the reference material available is from a secular perspective and confuses the homosexual aspect which we completely reject. We do not want to be outside of God's will. So we constantly pray about these things. It just seems in our daily life more things are constantly pointing in the direction of polygamy. We agree that really God will do what he does and provide, I guess I just fear leading us in the wrong direction.

By all means continue your study but try not to let it stress you out. Unless you have found someone there is no immediate urgency to resolve this issue. It is not a sin to say "I do not know." Polygamy has a tendancy to teach you to walk in faith on a day by day basis.

Another aspect of that particular story is (in real life) when these women lost their "Husband" they stayed together for the remaining 38 years of them both being alive. Just feeling very confused with feelings that all surround the sexual, the wholesome family aspect, the interoperative almost "throuple" idea of it, etc.

Agree with previous comment about this being fiction. Actually I have no idea if it is fiction or not, but we can evaluate this from a Biblical standard.

Biblically speaking the ladies are not married to each other and they are free to go their own way after the husband dies and they are free to marry separate husbands. They are under no obligation to stay together and marry the same man again.

Having said the above, they are not obligated to break up or live separately either. There is nothing morally wrong with them staying together for the rest of their lives.
 
Make sure you read what @Mojo said about this movie in another thread (emphasis mine):

Don't use that movie to inform your understanding of "the sexual customs of polygamists". The sexual aspects of this movie were invented by the producer to spice up the movie and get more people to watch it. They're fiction.
Yeah, but also don't automatically take at face value the denials of grandchildren. To begin with, as I wrote in that other thread, not one of us really has any direct knowledge of what our grandparents' sex lives were like, and their denial may be more of a reflection of their own personal level of discomfort with what their grandparents did or of their desire in the present to receive societal approval. After all, they live in the same prejudiced society the rest of us live in.
 
Yeah, but also don't automatically take at face value the denials of grandchildren. To begin with, as I wrote in that other thread, not one of us really has any direct knowledge of what our grandparents' sex lives were like, and their denial may be more of a reflection of their own personal level of discomfort with what their grandparents did or of their desire in the present to receive societal approval. After all, they live in the same prejudiced society the rest of us live in.
Before the movie came out I had read that the children would find all three of them in the bed occasionally. They would be told that two were sick and the third were caring for them.
 
Yeah, but also don't automatically take at face value the denials of grandchildren.
I agree. There is no accurate information on their sex lives.
Which means whatever the movie portrayed (whether it was rampant sexuality or complete chastity or anything in between), would be fiction.
If a different producer made the movie and portrayed the wives as having nothing to do with each other sexually, that too would be fiction.

As I said, "Don't use that movie to inform your understanding of "the sexual customs of polygamists"". Because the sexual customs in the movie come from the imagination of the producer, and tell you nothing about what works in a marriage, but only what the producer imagined, and thought would sell movie tickets. That is not at all helpful for anyone trying to actually research real polygamy, and is more likely to lead to wrong conclusions simply because it's not factual, it's fiction.
 
What works in any individual marriage depends entirely on the particular individuals involved. Deciding on high what is best for all marriages falls into the category of facism.
 
I want to know if there is any information maybe in Judaism (if im making the right statement) that applies to my original question
 
New here but not new to the polygyny concept. So my wife and I after going on this journey of understanding are now talking somewhat about practical things. One thing that keeps popping up is the sharing of one bed AND being intimate with both wives at the same time. To be very clear my wife is not nor ever has been nor does she have lesbian inclinations. However she has brought up that for her this is not a problem and that she is worried because she does not feel convicted of it being wrong. She feels like if a possible second wife was amenable to those things it would help with the jealousy issues, bonding as a family and other things. But has also asked me if this was wrong spiritually, biblically and that I needed to let here know that. We are both wanting to do things the right way and I really only have a hazy understanding because that seems like a gray area. I really did try to find a thread that just directly as possible answers that question. I'm sorry if that seems salacious and right out the gate. But its a genuine question and has been a topic of many of our conversations. As a man you would think I would've been the one to initiate that line of questioning, I was not. She has listed more reasons why she sees advantages to this as well as the OBVIOUS pleasurable implications concerning pleasing me, she is a very good wife in this regard and wants to be clear that because she is focused on pleasuring me and that being her focus in the bedroom, that this would be a way to do that (thats as graphic as im willing to go). All of them seem to be legitimate. Outside the bedroom it would be all the normal things a family does, and inside of that framework absolutely NO lesbian insinuations period. I'm expecting some mixed responses, just to be clear I know the first thought some of you might have, but my wife is on the forum and I also consulted and wrote this post with her sitting next to me. We just want to know what the scriptural-biblical implications are, most honestly. We are new here and I wasn't sure where to post this, so please be gracious and I will take any correction to heart.

Sorry... a bit late to this but what about Romans 1 specifically v.24-32

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
 
So I'm back. Somehow wife and I ended up watching a poly movie (they all seem very secular) about the creator of Wonder Woman. There were some very beautiful aspects of that movie, although some of the portrayal made me uncomfortable due to the other sexual aspects of it. I would still like to see more resources from scripture or at least culturally of the sexual customs of polygamist believers throughout time. Are there any other references? Even non-biblical ones? I just need to help resolve this in my mind. This has taken us through deep discussion. We find that conducting the relationship I guess in a more interoperative way sounds way more appealing to us, and just don't know what to do with that. My wife firmly re-emphasizes that these are not lesbian tendencies on her part, rather the desire to be submissive, but also the desire to have a heart-felt love for whatever individual comes into our life, a love as strong as mine would be. I agree with her. The problem is all the reference material available is from a secular perspective and confuses the homosexual aspect which we completely reject. We do not want to be outside of God's will. So we constantly pray about these things. It just seems in our daily life more things are constantly pointing in the direction of polygamy. We agree that really God will do what he does and provide, I guess I just fear leading us in the wrong direction. Another aspect of that particular story is (in real life) when these women lost their "Husband" they stayed together for the remaining 38 years of them both being alive. Just feeling very confused with feelings that all surround the sexual, the wholesome family aspect, the interoperative almost "throuple" idea of it, etc.

Stay convicted! Polygany is biblical... Homosexuality (male/male or female/female), is sin Romans 1
 
My friend, if you read the text carefully, you will see that men with men is sin, but the text DOESN'T say female/female is sin. In the Law male with male is forbidden (Lev.18:22), not female with female. Females doing what is against nature is condemned. You need to clarify what that is. Shalom

Maybe I am mistaken but it seems like this thread is leaving room for woman to woman sexual intimacy between sister wives. Romans 1 is clear that any type of homosexuality male or female is considered sin.

Romans 1:26-27
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Verse 26 is warning against female homosexuality. If v.26 does not stand out in your mind as being female homosexuality, the first words of v.27, "and likewise" tied to male homosexuality should help with context. The Word of God is warning against homosexuality for both male and females.
 
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Maybe I am mistaken but it seems like this thread is leaving room for woman to woman sexual intimacy between sister wives. Romans 1 is clear that any type of homosexuality male or female is considered sin.

Romans 1:26-27
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Verse 26 is warning against female homosexuality. If v.26 does not stand out in your mind as being female homosexuality, the first words of v.27, "and likewise" tied to male homosexuality should help with context. The Word of God is warning against homosexuality for both male and females.


Bro that passage is not calling it sin at all. It's simply a statement about what is happening. It's not an instructional passage it's an informational passage. This particular passage does not even say man shall not lie with another man. (You have to get that from elsewhere in scripture.) It tells us what happened after the men engaged in the action... Women do not have the "parts" to actually engage in sex without a man present its physically impossible. Furthermore it does not say anything about woman with woman. It simply says the women did something against nature... The passage doesn't tell us what that is. So you are taking one passage in isolation that is not instructional and making an assumption that it speaks against woman with woman, while the balance of scripture is silent on the matter. Then you are using that assumption to "create a new sin".

1 John 3:4, Deuteronomy 4:2, 2 Peter 3:14-18 (these passages are a good idea to keep in mind when determining what is actually sin...)
 
My thought is that the natural function, use, or relationship of woman is interwined with her created purpose:
"Then the Lord God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him."" Genesis 2:18 ESV
To me, woman's created identity, her very purpose, is equivalent to her function or "use".
So whether leaving natural relations means abstaining from that created purpose, or the cryptic/alluded to intercourse with angels, neither case condemns intimacy between women, only a departure from relationship with a man, those are two seperate concepts. It's making a statement that, "I know better what's right for me than my Creator does", it is an exercise of the will, it's a denial of the commandment to be fruitful and multiply, to raise godly offspring.

I think we can be confused by observing the way the world practices intimacy between women, as it often is conflated with a departure from relationship with men, but the issue is not their love, it's their departure from their created function. When men "likewise" depart from the use of women, they are departing from the role as representatives of Yahweh, they become a two-headed monster with no order, they can no longer be in the likeness of their Father who is One, because they cannot be one, nor can they create godly offspring, it is also an exercise of the will apart from God.

Consider that a godly man could set the example for love in his family as Jesus did for us:
"This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you."
John 15:12 ESV
A polygynist man could well apply this to his own family. I don't know if it's a stretch to make that proposition but I hope to find out someday.
 
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