Image and Authority

[Chaplain]

beta wrote:
but I think we shouldn't just assume anything when it comes to Scripture. It should be reasoned out.


beta,
I could not agree with your state more. I too have had things that I thought were one way, shown to me that it just wasn't so. I have had so much opened to me when I first started looking into scripture about Biblical marriage that it caused me to go back and re-look at other things. The various discussions on this board and on another board I am on has really opened my eyes to new insight into Gods word. Be blessed

 

[steve]

[Again here is it speaking of just man or man and woman? Well, it is more clear to me because God didn't differentiate between the blood of man and the blood of woman, the killing of one is the same as the killing of the other. Nowhere is there any hint otherwise. And if it's true here, it would be true there, unless the original language is somehow different.

not having time to research this at this point,
i will assume that this usage of the word "man" would be like mankind. including women and children

 

[DaPastor]

Hey Ray,

Randy,

Okay I see what you are saying and agree 100%. I think you are taking the concept a bit deeper than we were speaking of, but you are absolutely right.

However, would you agree that all humans are still in the 'image' of God, though in a fallen, polluted state that needs to be renewed to become glorified like Christ through Him, who is the pure form of that image?

One other question, did you mean Romans 8:29?

Thanks.

Be blessed,

Ray

Yes, I did mean Romans 8:29. As far as all humans still possessing the "image" of God, I know there has been debate about this from many circles. It usually falls under the idea that since man can reason, has a conscience, etc... these things prove that man still has some aspect of the image of God. Where one falls on this seems to be more about where one falls on the idea of how far did man fall. Some say that man fell so far that he is incapable of possessing any image of God. Some would say that man has only fallen to the extent that he is marred. At this time, I only see righteouseness and holiness as defining the true nature of God's image. I have not studied this subject thoroughly, however, so if you have some passages that show that man still has some aspect of the image of God, I would be more than happy to read them.

Blessings!

 

[DaPastor]

beta,
this does not answer your question, but it may bring in a little more light on the subject.

the jews see God as being both male and female, the shekinah being the femanine side.

i feel that He showed me that adam being made in His image was both male and female like He is. what his body parts looked like i have not a clue. when He removed the "rib* (curve in hebrew) from adam He was removing the femanine part.
as much as it pains me to admit it :lol: we are not whole without you, the fairer sex.
possibly paul sees her as being part of adam in his being the image and glory of God. with her being the glory of adam at the same time.

rereading that last part a couple of times i have become convinced that man can only be the image of God when his other half is there with him. otherwise his is incomplete and thus is not fully the image of God. (in the jewish culture they were not allowed to be rabbis until after they were married, in my understanding)
hmmm, maybe i did answer the question

oh, boy
now i'm gonna catch it
let the games begin

Hello,

Attributing to God anthromorphic attributes as factual representations of the nature of God does not make for solid theology. Yes, I know there are some in the Word of Faith movement, for example, who try to teach that God is both male and female (as well as other groups). However, taken to its logical conclusion, this view can reduce God to nothing more than a hermaphrodite (having both male and female organs) - not to say that you are doing this - but that unless Scripture is clear on a matter concerning God's nature, I think we need to tread carefully. I believe that any attempts to reduce God to human characteristics will ultimately fail. God is to be distinguished from His creation. There is no Scripture that teaches that God has any sexual identity. Sexual identity was specifically created in the garden of Eden. It doesn't mean that He does not refer to Himself in the masculine or in the feminine, but the purpose of those references are to help us to relate to Him - nothing more, and nothing less!

The truth of the matter is that God doesn't have any gender. He is not male or female. Scripture tells us that He is "I am that I am!" God is Spirit (Deuteronomy 33:27; Psalm 102:27; John 4:24; 1 Timothy 1:17; Revelation 1:8) and no spirit has flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). Scripture tells us that God is NOT a man (11:9). Moreover, He is invisible (Colossians 1:15; 1 Timothy 6:13, 16, 17).

Blessings

 

[DrRay777]

Randy,

Thanks for the input, what you say makes sense. I have not really studied the subject enough to speak with much authority here. However, I do believe that God directly revealed to me that the Holy Spirit fulfills the female characteristic of the 'God family'. This is a personal revelation, but it seems through some limited internet searching that this is not a new concept. We may have to agree to disagree on this, but I believe that we will not really know for certain until Jesus comes back and shows us the full truth. It really is not a serious issue in my eyes, so I would rather not debate it as such.

I would say here, as I have said elsewhere, that more goes into male vs. female characteristics than physical attributes. Therefore, even if God does not have sexual organs as such, does not mean that the ‘Godhead’ cannot have both sets of characteristics. I prefer to think of God the father as masculine as do I think of Jesus, the Son. The Holy Spirit fulfills the ‘mother’ role and there are seven Spirits of God. Therefore, the symbolism of the seven churches as the ‘brides’ of Christ as portrayed in Revelation would mean that Jesus has seven ‘wives’ just as the Father does through the Holy Spirit. Again, this is a personal revelation and I would not care to take anyone to task on the issue, as I feel that it is not that relevant to salvation. I have done a teaching on the Holy Spirit that covers what I believe that God showed me with the supporting scriptures. It is available on my web site on the teachings page under the title, ‘Holy Spirit.

Thanks again Randy and everyone for the input here, as I have found it helpful.

Be blessed,

Ray

 

[DaPastor]

Randy,

Thanks for the input, what you say makes sense. I have not really studied the subject enough to speak with much authority here. However, I do believe that God directly revealed to me that the Holy Spirit fulfills the female characteristic of the 'God family'. This is a personal revelation, but it seems through some limited internet searching that this is not a new concept. We may have to agree to disagree on this, but I believe that we will not really know for certain until Jesus comes back and shows us the full truth. It really is not a serious issue in my eyes, so I would rather not debate it as such.

I would say here, as I have said elsewhere, that more goes into male vs. female characteristics than physical attributes. Therefore, even if God does not have sexual organs as such, does not mean that the ‘Godhead’ cannot have both sets of characteristics. I prefer to think of God the father as masculine as do I think of Jesus, the Son. The Holy Spirit fulfills the ‘mother’ role and there are seven Spirits of God. Therefore, the symbolism of the seven churches as the ‘brides’ of Christ as portrayed in Revelation would mean that Jesus has seven ‘wives’ just as the Father does through the Holy Spirit. Again, this is a personal revelation and I would not care to take anyone to task on the issue, as I feel that it is not that relevant to salvation. I have done a teaching on the Holy Spirit that covers what I believe that God showed me with the supporting scriptures. It is available on my web site on the teachings page under the title, ‘Holy Spirit.

Thanks again Randy and everyone for the input here, as I have found it helpful.

Be blessed,

Ray

I appreciate your heart on the matter. In my opinion, there is a difference between God relating to us through masculine and feminine characteristics and saying that God's CHARACTERISTICS (or nature) are/is both masculine and feminine. The problem is that we as humans we have a tendency to humanize God (which brings God down), not recognizing that all anthropomorphic representations are not meant to describe His nature but are meantt to relate to His creation. Why this is important to me is that anything that downgrades the nature of God is devaluing God Himse, and ultimately dishonors Him! I see Him as God, set apart from humans in every way. I just think we need to be careful not to confuse what God is doing by Him relating to us as masculine/feminine and God's nature.

Here are some of my foundational principles of interpretation: 1. Only make doctrine from clear passages. 2. Never make doctrine from unclear passages. 3. Scripture will never contradict Scripture. 4. Personal revelation never trumps clear passages nor makes up for unclear passages. 5. Making a doctrine conclusion can only be made by taking every passage on a given topic. 6. Interpret all passages in the light of Chapter, Book, and Testament context. 7. Do everything to understand passages within the context of the historical setting.

Blessings

 

[DrRay777]

Thank you Randy.

Be blessed,

Ray

 

[steve]

would say here, as I have said elsewhere, that more goes into male vs. female characteristics than physical attributes. Therefore, even if God does not have sexual organs as such, does not mean that the ‘Godhead’ cannot have both sets of characteristics. I prefer to think of God the father as masculine as do I think of Jesus, the Son. The Holy Spirit fulfills the ‘mother’ role and there are seven Spirits of God. Therefore, the symbolism of the seven churches as the ‘brides’ of Christ as portrayed in Revelation would mean that Jesus has seven ‘wives’ just as the Father does through the Holy Spirit. Again, this is a personal revelation and I would not care to take anyone to task on the issue, as I feel that it is not that relevant to salvation

i believe that the doc understood my point here