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Image and Authority

Beta

Member
I'm doing a study on Women and the issue has come up as to whether -
  • Woman and Man were both made in the image of God
OR
  • Man was made in the image of God and Woman was made in the image of man.

Another issue is whether -
  • Man and Woman gave away their God-given authority over the earth to Satan
OR
  • Man and Woman retained their God-given authority over the earth. Satan's is a side issue.
OR
  • The curse of woman that man would rule over her is her authority given to man
    He retains his authority
    Satan does his thing as a side issue.

I would like viewpoints and supporting Scriptures from those who are given to searching the Scriptures. I have my own viewpoint but I don't want to teach wrongly.
 
I firmly believe that both man and woman were made in His image (Genesis 1:27). That is also the common interpretation of not only Jewish scholars, but Christian ones too.

Now, about your other issue... I'm not exactly sure and I look forward to the ideas people present.
 
On the initial question of image and authority, Beta, I think that Tom Shipley does the best examination of the issue from Scripture that I've seen, in his book, Man and Woman in Biblical Law.

As to "Man and Woman gave away their God-given authority over the earth to Satan" - I'd contend that the (oversimplified) answer is yes. The longer answer encompasses the "why" of all the specific things our Kinsman-Redeemer had to be and do in order to accomplish His initial mission for us. However, note that He did not attempt to argue, in His 'temptation' by Satan, whether or not the kingdoms of the earth were his to offer!
 
Beta,

I agree that man was created in the image of God and though woman came from man, she is still part of that image.


Genesis 1:27 -

27So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.

Genesis 5:1-2 -

1This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created.The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.

As to the second issue that you raise, as Mark pointed out, I believe that it is a bit more complicated than you present. Though I go into more detail in some of my writings, I will give some of my understanding as God has revealed it to me. Some of this is personal revelation and one must pray and hear from God to know if it is truth...

Lucifer was in charge of the earth before God created man, but when he fell, God removed him from that position to a degree, but the work will not be completed until he is ultimately cast into the lake of fire, (Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 28, Luke 10:18 and Revelation 12, 20 and 21). We are potential replacements for Lucifer and the fallen angels to replenish God's family and that is why he hates us so much. God gave dominion over the earth to man and we have never given that up as a race, only individually as people submit to Satan, (remain members of 'this world') in preference to submitting to God, (become members of the kingdom of God and the 'new world' to come, Psalm 8:4-6). Though we live in this world, we are simply pilgrims in transit to a greater world to come, (Hebrews chapter 2 and 11:13-16). Satan still has dominion in this world over his kingdom of darkness, (Genesis 1:3-5, John 14:30, 16:11, 18:36, Romans 12:2, I Corinthians 1:17-2:16, 5:9-13, 7:31 and others). However Jesus has dominion, (and we through Him) over the earth and natural forces therein as regards the kingdom of light. We as humans choose which kingdom that we will serve, (Deuteronomy 30:15-20). By denying Jesus and the kingdom of light, people by default choose to serve Satan and the kingdom of darkness. The Garden of Eden was a foretaste of the kingdom and world to come, (Lucifer had been there many years before Adam and Eve - Ezek. 28:13). When Eve and then Adam chose to serve themselves and Satan rather than God, they also chose the kingdom of darkness over the kingdom of light and were also ‘cast down’ to be members of ‘this world’ and also for everyone who follows, except as God brings into the kingdom of light through redemption in Christ, (John 6:44, Galatians 3:13, I Peter 1:18, Revelation 5:9 and 14:1-5). Even those to be redeemed were ‘predestined’ before God created mankind. This is something that is hard for us to receive in our human minds and that is why we have to be ‘enlightened’ by the Holy Spirit through the ‘mind of Christ’ to be able to understand these things. The fall of Adam and Eve was in the plan of God, so that we could get sin ‘out of the way’ while humans are still mortal and able to be destroyed ultimately in the lake of fire, (the mercy of an all knowing God). In that way God can simply do away with those who will not overcome pride and the flesh of ‘this world’ so that they will be counted worthy to inherit all things through Christ in the other world to come, (Revelation 21:7-8).

The kingdom of God and light has been available to us as humans since the time of Adam, but only through true repentance and walking with God, (Genesis 5:24 and Hebrews 11:5). In the Old Testament it was offered to a few in comparison to the time after the first coming of Jesus. Now anyone can access the kingdom of light through Jesus. However, Jesus came when He did so that His coming would have a ripple effect through time and go all the way back to Adam and forward to all who are yet to come, (this is explained in my book and some teachings when I review the overall plan of God for mankind as it relates to time and the mathematics of God). That is why Jesus went to preach the gospel to those in prison, (I Peter 2:18-22). Satan is still allowed to operate in this world so that we, (the redeemed) can learn what we do not want to be like and to help us overcome ourselves and the natural inclination to sin and rebel. It is only through this process of ‘sanctification’ that we become worthy, (through Christ and with the help of the Holy Spirit, by God’s grace) to inherit the kingdom of God. In this way, God ‘weeds out’ those who might fall short BEFORE He grants them immortality. That is why we must understand and be able to operate under authority within both the kingdom of God and even the kingdoms of this earth, to prove to God that we CAN obey whatever authority that He puts us under, (Romans 13:1-7 and I Peter 2:11-23). In this way God tests us to see if we will obey Him even through trials and tribulation to know that we will never walk into the same error of pride that Lucifer did and will keep our place for eternity, once the kingdoms of this world are changed into the kingdoms of God and the next world, (Jude 5-11 and Revelation 1:15). Though all the apostles wrote about these things, there is a brief summary in Ephesians chapters 1-2.

Thus, Adam and Eve submitted to the enemy’s authority that he still had until Jesus came the first time. Jesus usurped this authority for those who follow Him. Through the original sin of Adam, all mankind fell into the lower state of spiritually being members of ‘this world’ and the kingdom of darkness unless and until they individually overcome themselves and submit to the authority of God through Jesus, and thus inherit the kingdom of God and eventually the new world, (Matthew 28:18, Luke 10:19 and I Corinthians chap. 15). It is only through Jesus that we have any authority in either world, (Luke 9:1 and John 15:1-8). Satan’s authority as regards humans was ‘theoretically’ supplanted when Jesus came the first time, suffered, shed His blood, (symbolic of the love of the Father) and died for our sins. However, the devil will not ultimately be defeated until he is in the lake of fire. Until then, we still have to overcome Satan every day in our walk toward perfection in Christ, (Revelation 12:11). Each of us, (man or woman) is given authority, as we obey God through Jesus and abide in Him, (John 15). Humans have dominion over the earth, but this ‘world’ in a spiritual sense is still ruled by Satan, except as each individual man or woman breaks through this world to enter the next, (kingdom of God) through Jesus. Jesus had to come as a man, born to a woman, in order to have proper governmental authority in the earth, because God had given man dominion in the earth and it was not really taken away with the fall. Only those with a ‘birth certificate’ really have any ‘authority’/dominion to operate in the earth. That is why both Satan and God want to possess a human body to truly be able to effectively operate in the earth.

A man is under his father’s earthly authority in the natural as long as he lives with his parents. A woman is under her father’s earthly authority until either she is married or goes out on her own. However a woman’s authority, (as it is with a man) regarding the kingdom of God, (which supersedes this world and the natural things of the flesh) depends on her relationship with the Lord. Sorry for the dissertation, (and this is a short version) but in my understanding your three scenarios really cannot be individually complete in and of themselves. The earth and mankind are still in the midst of the battle betwen the kingdom of light and the kingdom of darkness. Until that battle is complete and the enemy is in the lake of fire, the finality of transfer of authority from one kingdom to another is still in process, (though Jesus spoke those things that are not as though they are when He said, 'It is finished'). Also, Satan is never a ‘side issue’. He is an example of the MAIN issue for us to overcome, which is pride.


Ephesians chapters 1-2 (NKJV) -

Chapter 1

1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: 2Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved. 7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

15Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. 22And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Chapter 2

1And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. 4But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

11Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

14For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

19Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21in whom the whole building, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.


Hope this helps.

Be blessed,

Dr. Ray
 
DrRay777 said:
Beta,

I agree that man was created in the image of God and though woman came from man, she is still part of that image.


Genesis 1:27 -

27So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.

Genesis 5:1-2 -

1This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created.The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.

Hello brother,

I agree that the image of God was imprinted on both Adam and Eve. However, I would suggest that the image of God was lost in the fall, and that it is restored objectively at conversion and experiencially at the time of glorification.

Blessings
 
Pastor Randy said:
I agree that the image of God was imprinted on both Adam and Eve. However, I would suggest that the image of God was lost in the fall, and that it is restored objectively at conversion and experiencially at the time of glorification.

Hey Randy,

I am not sure what you mean here, as the words are too big. Can you clarify for us non-theologians please? :D

Thanks,

Ray
 
Beta,

I think its almost unanimous that women have the image of God weather it is directly bestowed or consequence of being made from man. I'm not sure if there are any practical differences, but if there are please point them out.

For the second point I would say all three are true. Satan has pretty obviously a co-op on authority in the world, but Mankind still has abilities as its proprietor, cities and terraformed farmland are testament to that, it also seems that woman have been made subordinate in a way that was not initially necessary. The state of the world seems to affirm all three points.


DaPastor,
I think I see where you are going with this but its tough to comment right now. Can you clairify exactly what the Image of God means to you here and what you say has been lost?
 
DrRay777 said:
Pastor Randy said:
I agree that the image of God was imprinted on both Adam and Eve. However, I would suggest that the image of God was lost in the fall, and that it is restored objectively at conversion and experiencially at the time of glorification.

Hey Randy,

I am not sure what you mean here, as the words are too big. Can you clarify for us non-theologians please? :D

Thanks,

Ray

The reason that Jesus Christ died for us was to conform us to the image of His Son (Romans 8:9), who is the express image of God's person (Hebrews 1:3), the invisible God (Colossians 1:15). We are encouraged to put on the new man, which is the image of God (Colossians 3:10), which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness (Ephesians 4:24). So, at conversion we first put on the new man, the image of the Jesus Christ, the express image of God, which is righteousness and trule holiness. This means that we have received the righteous and holy image of God from the perspective that He no longer sees us as unholy - even though in experience we still often walk in the flesh. When we are finally glorified, we will be not only righteous in God's eyes, but we will be 100% righteous in all our words, thoughts and actions - the entire image of God will be ours, for we truly are partakers of His Divine Nature!

Blessings
 
Randy,

Okay I see what you are saying and agree 100%. I think you are taking the concept a bit deeper than we were speaking of, but you are absolutely right.

However, would you agree that all humans are still in the 'image' of God, though in a fallen, polluted state that needs to be renewed to become glorified like Christ through Him, who is the pure form of that image?

One other question, did you mean Romans 8:29?

Thanks.

Be blessed,

Ray
 
Thanks to all of you. I went ahead and submitted my study without changing the first point that both man and woman were made in the image of God because I did not get any convincing support for the other viewpoint. However, there is still this verse which seems to imply that possibility. Question is, are the image and the glory the same? If so, why are they mentioned separately in the first part, and only the glory is mentioned in the second part?

1 Corinthians 11:7
A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.

Would appreciate any comments.

Beta
 
beta,
this does not answer your question, but it may bring in a little more light on the subject.

the jews see God as being both male and female, the shekinah being the femanine side.

i feel that He showed me that adam being made in His image was both male and female like He is. what his body parts looked like i have not a clue. when He removed the "rib* (curve in hebrew) from adam He was removing the femanine part.
as much as it pains me to admit it :D :lol: we are not whole without you, the fairer sex.
possibly paul sees her as being part of adam in his being the image and glory of God. with her being the glory of adam at the same time.

rereading that last part a couple of times i have become convinced that man can only be the image of God when his other half is there with him. otherwise his is incomplete and thus is not fully the image of God. (in the jewish culture they were not allowed to be rabbis until after they were married, in my understanding)
hmmm, maybe i did answer the question :D

oh, boy
now i'm gonna catch it
let the games begin :D
 
Steve,

What you say makes a lot of sense. I believe that the scriptures are not too clear on this issue and that we still have a ways to go on understanding just how it works. Pastor Randy brought up an interesting point that I had not previously considered, but also makes total sense. Perhaps if we continue to get input here we will come to a greater understanding from each person's revelation from God through the Word.
I will keep reading and studying.

Great post Beta!

Be blessed,

Ray
 
i think that i understand what randy is saying, but i do not think that the issue is that black-or-white.

as an example; when He made us in His image i believe that being "creators" is part of the pattern. we cannot make something out of nothing, but we have this intrinsic desire to create that was not lost in the fall. the angels, not being created in His image, do not have that ability.
 
bryce,
well, at least some of them are correct ;)
 
I appreciate the comments and the discussion at hand. I tend to agree with your theory Steve, although it must not be forgotten that it is just that, a theory. We have no proof that it is so. Sometimes the Lord leaves us with few clues and a mystery. I try to keep myself from mixing my own theories or thoughts with the truth in my teachings. I tend to have help coming back to earth if I get too far off. ;) Anyway, I enjoy discussing and thinking about these things.

I would still like an answer on my post if anyone has anything, after you consider it and pray about it of course.

Beta
 
yes beta,
theories are just theories, but when He revels things to anyone we must go before Him and find out for ourselves whether it is truly revelation from Him.
if He shows us that, yes, He has reveled the truth in that matter then we must accept it and place it alongside all of the other truths that He has provided us. in scripture or otherwise.
 
Yes Steve, I apologize, I didn't mean to sound like revelation is irrelevant or anything like that. Certainly not. Yours easily holds up as far as I can see. But we are told to test all these things, and that even prophets are subject to testing by other prophets. I value all your input at the highest level.

And there goes the call-to-prayer... :mrgreen:

Anyway, I came across another Scripture, and that is in Genesis 9:5-6, though I haven't checked the original.


"And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man. Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God
has God made man."


Again here is it speaking of just man or man and woman? Well, it is more clear to me because God didn't differentiate between the blood of man and the blood of woman, the killing of one is the same as the killing of the other. Nowhere is there any hint otherwise. And if it's true here, it would be true there, unless the original language is somehow different.

It may seem silly for me to be so careful on this issue, but I think we shouldn't just assume anything when it comes to Scripture. It should be reasoned out. I've realized this because I've made mistakes in my life, for example 'assuming' monogamy was sound (not that there's any Scripture to that effect)... and other traditional 'Christian' teachings. Getting it wrong seriously affects people's lives.

Beta
 
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