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Husband = Idol ??

windblown said:
Two thoughts:
See, this doesn't sound like a Good and Just Father to me. What kind of father would expect his children to obey him without first clearly laying down the law for them?
Click to expand...

He is Good and Just. He has a unique relationship with each of his children. But, we each have to take our own, UNIQUE, steps to get there. Yours may be different. Mine, well, because I can be obtuse sometimes—yes, I need a little help. The Bible IS enough. Your husband can be enough. But, from what you’ve said before you either don’t think you’re experiencing a relationship with just you and Him or you’re not sure if you need one because Zec.

Here’s the thing... If your husband; following him, and that alone is leading you to and through a close relationship with Him that you aren’t questioning—then you’re doing it right.

My husband—he led me (and my SW) by deciding, “Hey, let’s do some studying together.” And you know what? By his leading, I am experiencing a relationship with God that I’ve never had before. It’s not fleeting. It’s hard. It’s difficult. Because sometimes I suck and make it more difficult than it should be.

You're right, it’s all clear in God’s Word. The answers are there. The point is—you find them. You. Make it personal. Whether that’s with your husband or just digging into scripture. Whether it's getting on a forum full of women who are bible-believing and asking them for opinions and what works for them, whether it's digging into a study by someone who has a way that works for THEM, or asking your husband what works for HIM. Just do it.

"Without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that he rewards those who EARNESTLY seek Him". Herbrews 11:6 (emphasis mine)

Are you seeking Him?

"I am the vine, you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him he will bear much fruit; apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

"Jesus replied: '"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." This is the first and GREATEST commandment.'" Matthew 22:37-38 (emphasis mine)

"Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves Me. He who loves Me will be loved by my father, and I too will love him AND SHOW MYSELF TO HIM." John 14:21 (emphasis mine)

To answer your previous question about what a "love-relationship" looks like... All those verses I just stated. Is it "dumb" that I needed a bible study--and not just the Word--to get me into a better understanding of what these (and other verses) mean and how they apply to me? Is it ridiculous that I needed Henry and Richard Blackaby to get me to certain truths regarding what it means to REALLY be a servant of God?
I don't think so. I think God used friends from this forum, my husband, and this study to lead me to a place where I KNOW what God wants from me. It WAS all there from the beginning.

He DID lay everything out clearly. But, I'll be the first to admit that sometimes I need help. That can look like all kind of things. Actually..."need" is the wrong word. All I need is Scripture. But, there it is. It still works. It's still working.

It IS biblical to glean from your husband. And if you are getting all YOU need from just him alone... Then there's nothing else to say. If you're not sure... SEEK HIM. Seek him so hard. ;) Seriously, though... do it. Because He is faithful and will be there.

The most bring-me-down-to-earth, shatter-my-heart verse most recently?
"He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God." John 8:47

I realized that I'm not hearing God. Well, I wasn't. No, I haven't heard God's "voice", as it were. But, I kid you not, I HAVE heard God since allowing myself to get OVER myself and SEEK Him.
You asked what that looks like, I think... Again, it's unique for everyone. But, for me, I'm reading my bible and something just clicks. And I realize that a certain verse or passage is God's way of speaking to me, directly, at that moment.

I've been a selfish creature. Selfish, hateful, and awful. I've hated poly, my husband, my SW and life, in general. And things got better. And then God spoke to me while I was teaching my children bible one day...
Phillipians 2: 1-8. I won't post it. But, basically, God was telling me to be more like Jesus. Stop being an ass and put others first. Love like Him.
That's just an example. But, I can tell you, God didn't speak to me through my husband that time. It was a one-on-one experience. Why? Because when He TRIED to use my husband I didn't listen. ;)

My whole point to all of this...
We can all try to tell you what we do, how we do it...and that's not wrong.
1. It's going to look different for us all because God is SOOOO good that He is able to reach us all uniquely.
2. Whatever method we use to get closer to Him, may not work for you.

So, you've got several people on this forum that'll tell you "Experiencing God" is wonderful. For you, this may seem dumb. Why would you need this when you have a husband? Well, then use him!!! Let him bring you closer to your creator! Let him guide you in His ways. If that's all you need...GOOD!!! Then maybe you're just less stubborn than I am. :)
 
windblown said:
Two thoughts:
See, this doesn't sound like a Good and Just Father to me. What kind of father would expect his children to obey him without first clearly laying down the law for them?

I am most definitely gleaning from an outside source. My husband. (Which actually is biblical- 1 Cor. 14:35 ;))
Click to expand...

Yes your husband is a biblical source, as are other teachers. Which is why He gave some the gift of teaching. And Experiencing God was written by someone teaching others how to Experience God.

What part doesn't sound like a good and just Father? I think perhaps we need to step back for a second- I'm talking about having a relationship with God but you said :

What kind of father would expect his children to obey him without first clearly laying down the law for them?

These are two separate things. You can obey all day long and not have a relationship with God. I'm not talking just about obeying. I can obey all the laws of the USA, but that doesn't mean I have a personal relationship with President Trump. The book is about knowing Him, not knowing his laws or regulations. So if your goal is to just simply obey all the laws and commandments, go for it! I don't think it will be simple though. And if your goal is to have a relationship with God, then go for it! I don't think it will be simple though. Having a relationship is not simple, easy or something that is convenient for only us. I would be very surprised if anyone said that any of their earthly relationships were deep and they got there simply. Relationships with others or with God take effort. The Lord has said to keep asking, keep knocking, keep seeking, not a one and done.

I'm not against you for following only your husband, or if you don't want to try the book, but if you are only open to finding your own way through the Bible or your husband's leading - what are you trying to get from us? How can we help you?
 
RainyLondonFog said:
I don't think it will be simple though. Having a relationship is not simple, easy or something that is convenient for only us. I would be very surprised if anyone said that any of their earthly relationships were deep and they got there simply. Relationships with others or with God take effort.
Click to expand...

Love this. So much. I've learned this so much in the past year or so.

RainyLondonFog said:
I'm not against you for following only your husband, or if you don't want to try the book, but if you are only open to finding your own way through the Bible or your husband's leading - what are you trying to get from us? How can we help you?
Click to expand...

Also true for myself. I hope I reiterated it enough. If your husband is your choice and you're confident with that... more power to you! :)
 
Sonshine said:
He is Good and Just. He has a unique relationship with each of his children. But, we each have to take our own, UNIQUE, steps to get there. Yours may be different. Mine, well, because I can be obtuse sometimes—yes, I need a little help. The Bible IS enough. Your husband can be enough. But, from what you’ve said before you either don’t think you’re experiencing a relationship with just you and Him or you’re not sure if you need one because Zec.

Here’s the thing... If your husband; following him, and that alone is leading you to and through a close relationship with Him that you aren’t questioning—then you’re doing it right.

My husband—he led me (and my SW) by deciding, “Hey, let’s do some studying together.” And you know what? By his leading, I am experiencing a relationship with God that I’ve never had before. It’s not fleeting. It’s hard. It’s difficult. Because sometimes I suck and make it more difficult than it should be.

You're right, it’s all clear in God’s Word. The answers are there. The point is—you find them. You. Make it personal. Whether that’s with your husband or just digging into scripture. Whether it's getting on a forum full of women who are bible-believing and asking them for opinions and what works for them, whether it's digging into a study by someone who has a way that works for THEM, or asking your husband what works for HIM. Just do it.

"Without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that he rewards those who EARNESTLY seek Him". Herbrews 11:6 (emphasis mine)

Are you seeking Him?

"I am the vine, you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him he will bear much fruit; apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

"Jesus replied: '"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." This is the first and GREATEST commandment.'" Matthew 22:37-38 (emphasis mine)

"Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves Me. He who loves Me will be loved by my father, and I too will love him AND SHOW MYSELF TO HIM." John 14:21 (emphasis mine)

To answer your previous question about what a "love-relationship" looks like... All those verses I just stated. Is it "dumb" that I needed a bible study--and not just the Word--to get me into a better understanding of what these (and other verses) mean and how they apply to me? Is it ridiculous that I needed Henry and Richard Blackaby to get me to certain truths regarding what it means to REALLY be a servant of God?
I don't think so. I think God used friends from this forum, my husband, and this study to lead me to a place where I KNOW what God wants from me. It WAS all there from the beginning.

He DID lay everything out clearly. But, I'll be the first to admit that sometimes I need help. That can look like all kind of things. Actually..."need" is the wrong word. All I need is Scripture. But, there it is. It still works. It's still working.

It IS biblical to glean from your husband. And if you are getting all YOU need from just him alone... Then there's nothing else to say. If you're not sure... SEEK HIM. Seek him so hard. ;) Seriously, though... do it. Because He is faithful and will be there.

The most bring-me-down-to-earth, shatter-my-heart verse most recently?
"He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God." John 8:47

I realized that I'm not hearing God. Well, I wasn't. No, I haven't heard God's "voice", as it were. But, I kid you not, I HAVE heard God since allowing myself to get OVER myself and SEEK Him.
You asked what that looks like, I think... Again, it's unique for everyone. But, for me, I'm reading my bible and something just clicks. And I realize that a certain verse or passage is God's way of speaking to me, directly, at that moment.

I've been a selfish creature. Selfish, hateful, and awful. I've hated poly, my husband, my SW and life, in general. And things got better. And then God spoke to me while I was teaching my children bible one day...
Phillipians 2: 1-8. I won't post it. But, basically, God was telling me to be more like Jesus. Stop being an ass and put others first. Love like Him.
That's just an example. But, I can tell you, God didn't speak to me through my husband that time. It was a one-on-one experience. Why? Because when He TRIED to use my husband I didn't listen. ;)

My whole point to all of this...
We can all try to tell you what we do, how we do it...and that's not wrong.
1. It's going to look different for us all because God is SOOOO good that He is able to reach us all uniquely.
2. Whatever method we use to get closer to Him, may not work for you.

So, you've got several people on this forum that'll tell you "Experiencing God" is wonderful. For you, this may seem dumb. Why would you need this when you have a husband? Well, then use him!!! Let him bring you closer to your creator! Let him guide you in His ways. If that's all you need...GOOD!!! Then maybe you're just less stubborn than I am. :)
Click to expand...


I just love all of this! I didn't really get a chance to read this before now because I was meeting with our charter school and had to run to Walmart. I can relate to all of this and I'm thankful to you for being so very open and honest with all of us. It takes guts to admit that you have flaws and can be stubborn and that you've hated some of the situations you have dealt with, but I find it amazing and refreshing that you are real about it. As a stubborn (but trying to get better!) wife, I appreciate the openness of what you've written and I feel like I can relate so much to what you've written about the book, about how your relationship has changed, the lessons you've learned and I agree with it all. Thanks @Sonshine !
 
Sonshine said:
Thanks, @RainyLondonFog! I’m still a work-in-progress. And it stinks having to admit how awful I am still. But, at least I am at a place to admit where I need to grow. Wasn’t quite there some months ago. ;)
Click to expand...


Haha, I'm all of those things too! A work in progress and awful too lol! But thank goodness for the goodness of the Lord! I feel like I wasn't really there six months ago either, but great is His faithfulness! <3
 
Just an AMEN here to what @Sonshine and @RainyLondonFog have expressed from yet another stubborn work in progress.
Great is thy faithfulness is a song I sing often, and I cannot say "Oh my goodness" without a silent reminder to self that I really have no goodness, and whatever good someone sees in me is just Yeshua/Jesus showing through the organized dirt that I'm made of.

Great thread!
 
Sonshine said:
He is Good and Just. He has a unique relationship with each of his children. But, we each have to take our own, UNIQUE, steps to get there. Yours may be different. Mine, well, because I can be obtuse sometimes—yes, I need a little help. The Bible IS enough. Your husband can be enough. But, from what you’ve said before you either don’t think you’re experiencing a relationship with just you and Him or you’re not sure if you need one because Zec.

Here’s the thing... If your husband; following him, and that alone is leading you to and through a close relationship with Him that you aren’t questioning—then you’re doing it right.

My husband—he led me (and my SW) by deciding, “Hey, let’s do some studying together.” And you know what? By his leading, I am experiencing a relationship with God that I’ve never had before. It’s not fleeting. It’s hard. It’s difficult. Because sometimes I suck and make it more difficult than it should be.

You're right, it’s all clear in God’s Word. The answers are there. The point is—you find them. You. Make it personal. Whether that’s with your husband or just digging into scripture. Whether it's getting on a forum full of women who are bible-believing and asking them for opinions and what works for them, whether it's digging into a study by someone who has a way that works for THEM, or asking your husband what works for HIM. Just do it.

"Without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that he rewards those who EARNESTLY seek Him". Herbrews 11:6 (emphasis mine)

Are you seeking Him?

"I am the vine, you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him he will bear much fruit; apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

"Jesus replied: '"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." This is the first and GREATEST commandment.'" Matthew 22:37-38 (emphasis mine)

"Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves Me. He who loves Me will be loved by my father, and I too will love him AND SHOW MYSELF TO HIM." John 14:21 (emphasis mine)

To answer your previous question about what a "love-relationship" looks like... All those verses I just stated. Is it "dumb" that I needed a bible study--and not just the Word--to get me into a better understanding of what these (and other verses) mean and how they apply to me? Is it ridiculous that I needed Henry and Richard Blackaby to get me to certain truths regarding what it means to REALLY be a servant of God?
I don't think so. I think God used friends from this forum, my husband, and this study to lead me to a place where I KNOW what God wants from me. It WAS all there from the beginning.

He DID lay everything out clearly. But, I'll be the first to admit that sometimes I need help. That can look like all kind of things. Actually..."need" is the wrong word. All I need is Scripture. But, there it is. It still works. It's still working.

It IS biblical to glean from your husband. And if you are getting all YOU need from just him alone... Then there's nothing else to say. If you're not sure... SEEK HIM. Seek him so hard. ;) Seriously, though... do it. Because He is faithful and will be there.

The most bring-me-down-to-earth, shatter-my-heart verse most recently?
"He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God." John 8:47

I realized that I'm not hearing God. Well, I wasn't. No, I haven't heard God's "voice", as it were. But, I kid you not, I HAVE heard God since allowing myself to get OVER myself and SEEK Him.
You asked what that looks like, I think... Again, it's unique for everyone. But, for me, I'm reading my bible and something just clicks. And I realize that a certain verse or passage is God's way of speaking to me, directly, at that moment.

I've been a selfish creature. Selfish, hateful, and awful. I've hated poly, my husband, my SW and life, in general. And things got better. And then God spoke to me while I was teaching my children bible one day...
Phillipians 2: 1-8. I won't post it. But, basically, God was telling me to be more like Jesus. Stop being an ass and put others first. Love like Him.
That's just an example. But, I can tell you, God didn't speak to me through my husband that time. It was a one-on-one experience. Why? Because when He TRIED to use my husband I didn't listen. ;)

My whole point to all of this...
We can all try to tell you what we do, how we do it...and that's not wrong.
1. It's going to look different for us all because God is SOOOO good that He is able to reach us all uniquely.
2. Whatever method we use to get closer to Him, may not work for you.

So, you've got several people on this forum that'll tell you "Experiencing God" is wonderful. For you, this may seem dumb. Why would you need this when you have a husband? Well, then use him!!! Let him bring you closer to your creator! Let him guide you in His ways. If that's all you need...GOOD!!! Then maybe you're just less stubborn than I am. :)
Click to expand...
That was a very passionate exposition of your experience with "Experiencing God." Thank you.
 
RainyLondonFog said:
What part doesn't sound like a good and just Father? I think perhaps we need to step back for a second- I'm talking about having a relationship with God but you said :

What kind of father would expect his children to obey him without first clearly laying down the law for them?

These are two separate things.
Click to expand...

Ah yes. We are most definitely on 2 different pages. You see, to me relationship = actions. Things you have to do. If you love me, keep my commandments. How can these be separate?

I'm sorry the Father reference was not coherent enough. I'll definitely step back and try to walk through what was going on in my head.

I believe that God tells us how to specifically live out our "relationship" with Him in the Word.
That there are concrete ways to show our love.
If there were not clear instructions in the word, then he would not be Good or Just.
He would just be a tyrant in the sky ready to backhand us when we unknowingly piss him off.

And then we can step even farther back....
These thoughts all tie back in with my OP and subsequent questions. I'll answer with my own thoughts to clear up any misunderstandings if there's still some hanging around.

Can your husband be an idol? <no, an idol has to be as specific a sin as adultery since it's the flip side of the metaphor>
Can you have too much focus on being a good wife instead of "seeking God"? <no, being a good wife is seeking God in itself as it is His will>


How do you cultivate a relationship with the Most High? <by doing what He says in His word, with submission being the first and foremost command to wives>
Is He clear and concise in his instructions to us? <yes>
Or do we need extra help to discern his words? <if we have questions, we are to ask our husbands>

I hope that helped clear up whatever I wasn't clear about. I'm sure there are other issues and topics floating around that could be addressed, but I think my posts might be getting counter-productive at this point though...soooo....

RainyLondonFog said:
what are you trying to get from us? How can we help you?
Click to expand...
windblown said:
What say you, deep and insightful sisters?
Click to expand...
I enjoy this forum and respect the lot of BF women. I merely asked for everyone's opinions. Thank you for yours. :)
 
windblown said:
Ah yes. We are most definitely on 2 different pages. You see, to me relationship = actions. Things you have to do. If you love me, keep my commandments. How can these be separate?
Click to expand...

Are you saying "actions" is "keeping commandments only?"

I will admit that I feel like the Lord is trying to steer me away from a legalistic habit I've had. I have a hard time with grace. And it feels more comfortable for me to try to keep laws, then it is to have faith that the Lord is loving and forgiving of my grievous sins. I am learning there is way more to a relationship then just keeping commandments and I would just encourage anyone else that is struggling under those bonds that there is more freedom ahead.

windblown said:
I'll answer with my own thoughts to clear up any misunderstandings if there's still some hanging around.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have what you were after. I'm glad that you have answers now. :)

windblown said:
I enjoy this forum and respect the lot of BF women. I merely asked for everyone's opinions. Thank you for yours.
Click to expand...

You're welcome and I enjoy everyone here as well. Thank you for this thread. :)
 
windblown said:
I believe that God tells us how to specifically live out our "relationship" with Him in the Word.
That there are concrete ways to show our love.
If there were not clear instructions in the word, then he would not be Good or Just.
He would just be a tyrant in the sky ready to backhand us when we unknowingly piss him off.

And then we can step even farther back....
These thoughts all tie back in with my OP and subsequent questions. I'll answer with my own thoughts to clear up any misunderstandings if there's still some hanging around.

Can your husband be an idol? <no, an idol has to be as specific a sin as adultery since it's the flip side of the metaphor>
Can you have too much focus on being a good wife instead of "seeking God"? <no, being a good wife is seeking God in itself as it is His will>


How do you cultivate a relationship with the Most High? <by doing what He says in His word, with submission being the first and foremost command to wives>
Is He clear and concise in his instructions to us? <yes>
Or do we need extra help to discern his words? <if we have questions, we are to ask our husbands>
Click to expand...
I am right here with you girl. I think our husbands teach us similarly so our views are pretty hand in hand.
 
windblown said:
Why would we concern ourselves with anything else the Lord hasn't commanded?
Click to expand...

I'm not saying we should concern ourselves with things that the Lord hasn't commanded. But I am saying that is one of the many things the Lord has said. Saying one verse is the whole picture of how a relationship looks like is like holding one puzzle piece and having a clear understanding of the whole picture. I think that is why the Bible is so amazing - we can never see all the Lord is, He is too high above our thoughts for us to fully grasp it all. He is ever patient and loving, continually revealing Himself to His children.
 
RainyLondonFog said:
I'm not saying we should concern ourselves with things that the Lord hasn't commanded. But I am saying that is one of the many things the Lord has said.
Click to expand...
Okay, you're making a distinction between "commanded" and "said." They are the same thing in my book.

I never said it was one verse. In fact, I think I said obedience is woven throughout scripture. It'd be nice if you'd show me your verses where a relationship is described as something other than doing what God commands.
 
windblown said:
Okay, you're making a distinction between "commanded" and "said." They are the same thing in my book.

I never said it was one verse. In fact, I think I said obedience is woven throughout scripture. It'd be nice if you'd show me your verses where a relationship is described as something other than doing what God commands.
Click to expand...
I don't even think we're talking the same language. Honestly I feel like this has gotten a little farther than a friendly discussion and I'm going to sit out and try to figure out what you said. If in some way I have offended you, that was not my intention.
 
So, here’s my take. And you can feel free to correct me if I’m wrong... @windblown, you’re saying to love God is ONLY obeying? Being obedient? Following His commands? Basically, being His servant?

I realize that because this is a written conversation tones can be misread—So, please, believe me when I say this is NOT rhetorical/sarcastic, etc... I’m honestly just wanting to make sure where you’re coming from. :)

Anyway, I take the verse Matthew 22:37-38. I quoted it in my longer post.

When He says to “love Him”, He’s saying “agapaō”. I think we all agree what that means. :)
So, He says to “agapaō” Him with all our hearts (kardia), souls (psychē) , and minds (dianoia).

Kardia—from everything I’ve ever studied means (figuratively) “thoughts and feelings”. If I’m supposed to have feelings for my God, that goes beyond just obedience. I kind of think the same about @Isaac. I could totally just bare-bones be obedient to him and not have any love-feelings for him. But, what kind of relationship would that be? Sure, a good one. Even holy. But, I want more. And according to Matthew, God wants my heart.

Dianoia means “thought and understanding”. For me, personally (and more importantly in my husband’s household) having a loving, thoughtful relationship with our Creator is...
“... the first and greatest commandment.”

But, I believe I’m being “obedient” by following that command. So, I guess we’re in agreement? :)
 
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