How many Old Testamanet new Years are there?

[ke4ke]

Hello,

There was only one new year. Everything has only one beginning. If something has already begun how can it start again? The idea of sacred vs secular system or life did not exist. That comes from Greek philosophy. The lunar figuring of times and dates is from Babylon. Israel did not use it until the time in Babylon. Notice that you never see the mention of Nissan until then. The English text of scripture is a bit misleading with some of this. One such instance is in Genesis 1:16 the word "also" at the end of the verse is not there in the text and "he made" is also not there. It should read "and the lesser light to rule the night: the stars".


Side issue: Be very careful about fellowshipping with people who believe our savior is in the deepest pit of hell burning in excrement. Anyone who does not believe Christ is God is against God, they are anti-Christs.

 

[DiscussingTheTopic]

Side issue: Be very careful about fellowshipping with people who believe our savior is in the deepest pit of hell burning in excrement. Anyone who does not believe Christ is God is against God, they are anti-Christs.

Who are these people are you talking about a specific group of Jews (not all Jews), who are against Christ? Or are you talking about someone else? It may be important for me to know because I should not be sinning.

 

[DiscussingTheTopic]

The lunar figuring of times and dates is from Babylon. Israel did not use it until the time in Babylon. Notice that you never see the mention of Nissan until then.

Also at your times of rejoicing—your appointed feasts and New Moon festivals—you are to sound the trumpets over your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, and they will be a memorial for you before your God. I am the LORD your God."

Numbers 10:10 NIV

With each bull there is to be a drink offering of half a hin of wine; with the ram, a third of a hin ; and with each lamb, a quarter of a hin. This is the monthly burnt offering to be made at each new moon during the year.
Numbers 28:14 NIV

It seems to me that they used the moon to determine when some holidays are. And from Numbers 28:14 it seems that a new moon was once a month, if there months were not based on the moon, than they might have had two new moons or perhaps no new moons during some months. However these verses in and of themselves would not prove the use of a lunar calendar before babylon, also it would not negate the possibility of a lunar month, but a solar year. Furthermore if it was approximately and not exactly once a month the term monthly might be acceptable.

Maybe it is just a fluke (perhaps the search missed footnotes, etc.) but when I searched the entire Bible (in NIV and King James translations) for the word Nisan (in Biblegateway.com ) it only showed up in two places Nehemiah 2:1 and Esther 3:7. I seemed to remember reading month names more commonly than that but perhaps I am wrong (also I only searched for one month name so far because it is late at night.) Nehemiah and Esther are both written after Babylon invaded if I remember correctly.

I should look more into this later, are there any historical resources (copies of documents written before Babylon invaded) that would show how Jewish people used a calendar before Babylon invaded?

 

[ke4ke]

Forgot to add one particular thing I found interesting. Chodesh is translated month almost pretty much every time it is found in scripture except when the word Sabbath or some connection to a religious event is connected to it. Personally I prefer to keep the definition of a word the same. When I see new moon festival I read it as new month festival. Probably works better considering how the moon works and months work.

It certainly should be considered that perhaps the translators did not make the best choice in those verses.

 

[DiscussingTheTopic]

Forgot to add one particular thing I found interesting. Chodesh is translated month almost pretty much every time it is found in scripture except when the word Sabbath or some connection to a religious event is connected to it. Personally I prefer to keep the definition of a word the same. When I see new moon festival I read it as new month festival. Probably works better considering how the moon works and months work.

It certainly should be considered that perhaps the translators did not make the best choice in those verses.

The lunar figuring of times and dates is from Babylon. Israel did not use it until the time in Babylon. Notice that you never see the mention of Nissan until then.

Thank you for your response

Do you believe Jewish people used lunar months?

Do you believe Jewish people used solar years, lunar years, or a different type of year yet?

I tried to look up the month names on an online website and then search for them in NIV (and also King James Bible if I remember correctly) in biblegateway.com, and I found none of the month names until after the books of Moses. However they may have been spelled different on the website (which I can not remember the name for) than in NIV or their could be something specific about how I used the search program and the search program itself.

This makes your comment about Babylon and month names much more interesting to me. However it is not definitive evidence because people could have used the month names, outside of scripture before Babylon.

 

[macike]

So,

The month that contains Passover is the new year

"This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year.
Exoudus 12:2 NIV

In the first month you are to eat bread made without yeast, from the evening of the fourteenth day until the evening of the twenty-first day
Exodus 12:18 NIV

So why do people claim Rosh Hashanah is the new year?

Some Jewish people told me there are 4 new years, but only two Rosh Hashanah and Passover are in the Bible.

They said Rosh Hashanah is the new year for counting years, but Passover is the new year for counting months. (Although the new year technically starts a few days before passover.)

I asked them if the Bible actually says Rosh Hashanah is the new year and they could not so me where, it says it is the new year.

Does anyone know the answer to this.

I have noticed that orthodox "jews" actually add a lot of rules that are not in the Old Testament and subtract a lot of rules that are. I am wondering if this is another such a case.

There are two new years. One sacred one (somewhat) secular. Think of the difference that we have now.
We have New Years Day on Jan 1. Then we have a federal new year on Oct 1. In many ways the true new year is in September (labor day). Look at all the changes we have. School starts, vacations ends, kids go off to college.

We do not add to the 613 commands. Now Christians will call what we do is adding to the Torah. The issue of adding is that we have built a fence around Torah so we do not break the commands of Adonia. I know sounds like splitting hairs but it is important.

We do not subtract commands from the Torah, that would be 'destroying the Torah,' (cƒ mt 5:17).

 

[DiscussingTheTopic]

We do not add to the 613 commands. Now Christians will call what we do is adding to the Torah. The issue of adding is that we have built a fence around Torah so we do not break the commands of Adonia. I know sounds like splitting hairs but it is important.

We do not subtract commands from the Torah, that would be 'destroying the Torah,' (cƒ mt 5:17).

So since you do not subtract from the Torah when was the last time you enforced the death penalties in the old testament, either as an individual or as part of a community?

This is not a problem for me because I do not have to keep all the old testament in the new covenant but anyone who claims to follow the old covenant must keep the whole old covenant.

"Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out."
Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"
Deutoronomy 27:26 NIV

All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
Galatians 3:10 NIV

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
James 2:10-11 NIV

If there are multiple laws. And you have kept even 9 out of 10 laws you will still be punished for the 1 law you break. So if there is punishment for both adultery and murder. Not committing one does not allow you to get away with committing the other. This seems like an obvious point, but.....

That means you have to keep all the laws, and can not avoid the laws prescribing death penalties in the OT. I have never met a jew who keeps the laws in Levitcus 20:13. It is not enough not to do what is forbidden in leviticus 18:22, but in order to keep the law in Leviticus 20:13 you must also punish those who break Leviticus 18:22 by execution. I have never met an orthodox Jewish community in America which does such a thing.

So it is undeniably clear to me that "orthodox" Jews do not keep the whole law.

 

[DiscussingTheTopic]

I tried to look up the month names on an online website and then search for them in NIV (and also King James Bible if I remember correctly) in biblegateway.com, and I found none of the month names until after the books of Moses. However they may have been spelled different on the website (which I can not remember the name for) than in NIV or their could be something specific about how I used the search program and the search program itself.

I must have made a mistake when I did that.

The month of Abib is mentioned

Today, in the month of Abib, you are leaving.
Exodus 13:4 NIV

This day came ye out in the month Abib.
Exodus 13:4 KJV