This is a great discussion and I am encouraged that we are tackling this without contention. Praise Yah.
I agree and I also think the discussion about the community and the elders fits right in with how all this should turn out.
Indeed, Jeremiah is told to smash a pot beyond repair to illustrate how thoroughly the judgment from the Babylonians would be. And, it was. Your statement implies that Jerusalem will never be made again, but that is not the message of Jeremiah to Jerusalem. God clearly says that Jerusalem will be rebuilt. See the following from Jeremiah (other prophets echo the same message, Isaiah, Zechariah 14, etc):
- 30:3 Israel and Judah will be brought back. Following verses give great detail
- 31 speaks primarily to Ephraim (Israel) in the first half, but Judah is taken up in vss 23 and specifically mentioned in 27 and 31...
- 33:10ff specifically speaks of the restoration of Judah and Jerusalem, also vs. 13-26 are very clear that two families (v.24) will be restored. Jerusalem is specifically mentioned multiple times.
This is not to say Jerusalem won't be disciplined again, I think she will, but God is clear, over and over that Jerusalem is where the King will sit. And, He intends to make her the crown jewel of the world.
One of the things we have to remember is that when it is spoken about Jerusalem it is referring to two Jerusalem. The context could very well imply that one Jerusalem is going to be destroyed and another is going to be rebuild that is total separate. One earthly and one heavenly. This is all a future event so we will have to wait and see. In the meantime I don't really see how the story being told in Jeremiah about the pots being smashed is God saying, "if you guys don't straighten up this is gong to be really really bad." He is prophesying the destruction of something never to rebuild again. Because it is contrasted with reworking of the moist clay that can be molded. There is a message here.
God's crown jewel is not a city/temple on earth but a Heavenly temple.
But, and I know this is going to probably going to go the wrong way, there more than likely is going to be a temple claiming to be of God, but it is not going to be what it appears. (Take that with a grain of salt.)
This is partly false. Adhering to the Law brought blessing. You admit that. It was when they disobeyed the Law that they brought curses. Yeshua didn't come to free them from the Law, He came to free them from the curses of disobedience. The Law itself is easy... The bondage comes from additions to (or subtractions from) the Law. The Law itself is very simple. God Himself said, as
@Pacman pointed out that 'it is not too difficult for you.' Paul even invokes that very statement in an argument to take the simple Torah, not all the manmade additions.
To be clear, the Law doesn't save, it brings blessing. Salvation has
always been by grace through faith. If a person's faith was in their actions, then it was in the wrong place. Their faith, and ours, must be in Yah and His Messiah, Yeshua. Abraham believed God (Genesis 15:6) but he 'kept My laws, My statutes and My commandments..' (Genesis 26:5) Did he keep it for salvation or did he keep it because he was saved?
Yes, and I will say it again, the Law is a blessing. But, it's not like it is a blessing as in a reward for doing good, it is a blessing because it is the right way to live. Like eating food that is good for you, it is a blessing to you because it is meant for you to live that way. I do question your insistence on the Law though, the Law's purpose was to reveal sin. (Sometimes I wonder if its an idol of some sort.) And we needed sin to be revealed so we would know why we need a Savior. So, in essence the purpose of the Law was to bring Salvation. And in it we are blessed. Again, I think there is misunderstanding about what I am saying, the Law is good, man's interpretation of the Law is bad.
Abraham had an understanding of the Law that we do not at this time. The only thing we have is mans interpretation of the Law. I will explain more in response to you next comment.
The physical and the spiritual are inextricably connected. We are spiritual beings in physical bodies. It is quite hard to learn deeper spiritual meaning without doing the physical commandments. For example, I read about Passover and Sukkot and had a 'book knowledge' but not until we began doing it did the real learning and understanding come. In non-Torah terms, do you want a Doctor that read about how to do a certain surgery explaining the finer points, or do you want a surgeon who has done it... multiple times? Or, still another way, Yeshua was without sin. Did He get that way by not keeping the commandments? Or, did He keep them?
So, I'm not interested in telling you or anyone else how to keep the commandments, but I gladly proclaim that God doesn't change and His ways remain the same and His own Word, (Deuteronomy 13) says if anyone leads you away from the commandments, they are to be stoned. (In modern vernacular, I just don't listen to them, then counsel rebellion.)
This is a perfect example of what I am trying to say. I think I understand what you are saying to be, you studied the Law of Passover and Sukkot and it was head knowledge, but when you started practicing it, it became real to you. Correct? You are now a doctor of Passover now
. Then you say that because you understand it for YOU that means that you can explain it to others. I may listen to your experience, and I may feel deep inside a conviction to do at as you say and it be all good. But, I may listen to what you say and I may say that's nice for you but it's not for me, I need to find a better interpretation. Does that make me wrong? Is that implying to you that I don't believe in following the Law?
Now, if the Son of God comes and reveals to me what keeping the commands really means, then for sure, if I am being lead by Him, I am going to do it that way.
So, again, following the Law is not the problem, it's the understanding of it from God's point of view that makes it right. No man can tell another man how to follow the Law. And I can tell you, any attempts to force it on any person will only do the opposite. There is a reason God says HE is going to write it on someone's heart.
And, a final note, keeping the Torah of Moses doesn't make one Jewish. It makes one righteous. It is the equivalent of doing what Yeshua did.
I agree with you. It's being lead to the correct interpretation that matters.
My most sincere prayer is that God will come down and show us how to live our lives pleasing to Him. An I know that a major part of that is understanding His Laws and finding joy in doing them. I know that is the only blessing we need.
