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Gluttony

John Whitten said:
One thing that should be done away with is the myth that everyone should be slim. Each persons body shape has an optimum size and weight that allows them to function healthfully. There is no generic chart that can provide that information.
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That is why BMI should not be used. I do not like the term overweight, because a weight does not determine your health in general. It is more of a matter of an individual having to much fat, for the amount of fat that individual may have. In North Korea or some parts of Africa for instance I would imagine having fat can be very useful.
 
John Whitten said:
Ahh, if only all life was as simple as an algebraic formula. Truth be told, the mechanics of weight management is a simple formula. But there are far more complex issues than caloric intake and expenditure. Why do we eat more than we need to function? Is it a sin issue? I suppose in some cases it may be, but that is going to be a small minority of people. There is also a very small minority of people that have extremely over effective metabolisms. The vast majority of people that have weight issues are dealing with emotional injuries and pain. Many have been dealing with them since early childhood. Yes, Christ has the answer to all our problems, including weight management, but few of those answers are easily applied.
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I think the fact that most people could control their weight by making better choices. Reveals that it is indeed the results of a sin issue. If they had a better relationship with God, it would result in the fruit of self-control, which would result in a healthy weight. This is not the case in all circumstances, but I believe it is especially the case for many people in many parts of America, where people can choose what they eat and do have time when they are not officially work.
 
DTT,
For me, I have an ultra slow metabolism that has been developed from years of yo-yo dieting followed by Gastric Bypass Surgery which allowed me to lose 160 lbs. It was a huge change for me but now I have to work even harder to lose the weight that has crept back on to me.

And if you are a person who has over 100 lbs to lose, and it comes off that slowly, it is very difficult to stay the course. Most of us need some sort of encouragement. I have never said it can't be done, only that our family members need to be supportive and kind not accusatory and finger pointing. Saying "you are in sin" is so much less effective than taking your wife's hand (or girlfriend) and saying, lets go for a walk and then lets go to the grocery store (or garden) and get stuff to make a salad. I really want us to eat healthy so we can have a long fruitful life.

Which would you rather hear? "You are in sin, you spend too much time on the computer (video game whatever)?" Or , "Hey honey, lets go to the park tonight and play with the kids. We need some fresh air."

No one likes to be accused, or hounded or anything negative. If we practice being positive and encouraging to our mates (no matter what the subject) we will be surprised at how much easier it is to maintain good solid relationships and have productive conversations when things need to be handled.

I think that if Jesus were to talk to me about weight, he would tell me how God loves me and how He wants me to be healthy. I think he would tell me that if I love God I will obey his command to care for my body as though it were a Temple. I think that Jesus would tell me all the reasons that it was better for me to be "in moderation" regarding food. I do not think he would point his finger at me and say, "Lissa you are in sin and I don't love you anymore." If husbands are commanded to love their wives as Christ loves the church then I think that when dealing with issues like this, a husband should talk to his wife in a loving fashion and remind her of all the benefits to being healthy. Fill in the blanks. Give her a reason to want to be slim and trim. Because you catch a lot more flies with honey than with vinegar and I know your wife really really wants to please you.
 
John Whitten said:
Ahh, if only all life was as simple as an algebraic formula. Truth be told, the mechanics of weight management is a simple formula. But there are far more complex issues than caloric intake and expenditure. Why do we eat more than we need to function? Is it a sin issue? I suppose in some cases it may be, but that is going to be a small minority of people. There is also a very small minority of people that have extremely over effective metabolisms. The vast majority of people that have weight issues are dealing with emotional injuries and pain. Many have been dealing with them since early childhood. Yes, Christ has the answer to all our problems, including weight management, but few of those answers are easily applied. One thing that should be done away with is the myth that everyone should be slim. Each persons body shape has an optimum size and weight that allows them to function healthfully. There is no generic chart that can provide that information.

In a two year period, I lost 67 pounds. Here is what I learned that helped me.
1. Establishing a solid, intimate relationship with God provides acceptance and internal peace as the foundation for controlling appetite.
2. Finding someone or thing to focus love upon gives us a greater purpose than self-gratification.
3. Esteeming weight management to be a health issue is better than imagining a cosmetic issue. Knowing that we are worth the effort to improve our health is critical. We must love our selves!
4. Practice portion management rather than taste deprivation. A little of a tasty dessert, never hurt anyone. Dessert loses its value when we make it a main course.
5. Practice the Biblical discipline of fasting and prayer. Not long periods for self punishment or seeking the mysteries of God. Use one meal fasts to begin with and work up to a full day or days. The purpose is to bring your body into submission to your spirit and further enabling God's Spirit to guide and control your life. Food is good fuel and it is a wonderful treat, but it is a terrible operating system.
6. Recognize that often we try to make ourselves feel good by treating our pain with pleasant food. Recognize the source of pain and see #1 & # 2.
7. Exercise is beneficial to weight management and our sense of well being. But, if it is too hard to do, it won't get done. My experience shows me that walking is one of the best and cheapest forms. It can be done in groups or alone. It can provide exploration as well as burn calories and build muscle. Also walking helps the respiration and heart. Park farther away from the store or church entrance, might also make it easier to find a parking space. Taking the stairs gives you more time with your thoughts than making small talk on the elevator.

I make no claims to expertise. There are many possible solutions, but these are what helped me. Usually we do not feel good about ourselves when we are over weight. What liberty and joy comes our way when we discover that we can be in control of our weight management, rather than being dominated by defeatism and appetite. Freedom to follow the leadership of our Lord is one of the blessings that comes our way. Never give up for very long, just start over as many times as necessary to achieve victory.
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Thank you, John !
Blessings,
Fairlight
 
DiscussingTheTopic said:
John Whitten said:
Ahh, if only all life was as simple as an algebraic formula. Truth be told, the mechanics of weight management is a simple formula. But there are far more complex issues than caloric intake and expenditure. Why do we eat more than we need to function? Is it a sin issue? I suppose in some cases it may be, but that is going to be a small minority of people. There is also a very small minority of people that have extremely over effective metabolisms. The vast majority of people that have weight issues are dealing with emotional injuries and pain. Many have been dealing with them since early childhood. Yes, Christ has the answer to all our problems, including weight management, but few of those answers are easily applied.
Click to expand...

I think the fact that most people could control their weight by making better choices. Reveals that it is indeed the results of a sin issue. If they had a better relationship with God, it would result in the fruit of self-control, which would result in a healthy weight. This is not the case in all circumstances, but I believe it is especially the case for many people in many parts of America, where people can choose what they eat and do have time when they are not officially work.
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The last thing anyone dealing with an eating disorder needs is someone standing in judgment of them. It isn't as simple or formulaic as you have presented here.
Blessings,
Fairlight
 
I just ran a mile. In Dallas. It is 93 degrees.

Thanks to my hubby who ran with me and encouraged me to keep going when I thought my lungs would burst and my heart would explode.

SweetLissa
 
sweetlissa said:
I just ran a mile. In Dallas. It is 93 degrees.

Thanks to my hubby who ran with me and encouraged me to keep going when I thought my lungs would burst and my heart would explode.

SweetLissa
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Good. :D Make sure you stay hydrated
 
DiscussingTheTopic said:
I think the fact that most people could control their weight by making better choices. Reveals that it is indeed the results of a sin issue. If they had a better relationship with God, it would result in the fruit of self-control, which would result in a healthy weight. This is not the case in all circumstances, but I believe it is especially the case for many people in many parts of America, where people can choose what they eat and do have time when they are not officially work.
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i don't think we can necessarily say it is a sin issue just because we lack self-control. the problem with being overweight is that it usually manifests from overindulgences of the past, making it hard to break the cycle. have you noticed how much easier it seems toibe for someone who is already thin to stay thin than it is for someone heavy to get thin? im not talking about someone who has always been thin but someone who was once heavy and became thin. they understood the mental discipline needed to change their behavior and took control of their lives away from their food. others never gain the mental disciplome and they bounce from diet to diet and never make any permanent difference. you can put the mind of a thin person into the body of a heavy person and they will be thin inside of a year. the issue is not one of physical but mental discipline. laziness says i won't exercise oday. discipline says i won't eat anythiung chocolate on the menu. i can accomplish anything thru him who strengthens me. the lies that tell me i can't ever do it come from the evil one.
 
Even though I think gluttony is a sin, I agree that we should not isolate this sin from others that may be causing or supporting it. I have no problem establishing that there are reasons that a person may overeat. These reasons may be other sins and things that God can deal with. People want reasons to stand alone but reasons to sin can not be given invulnerability in a Christian's life.

Eating because of past abuse might be a reason, but lack of forgiveness might be a sin.

Eating because of lack of self control might be a reason, but lacking God's control migh be a sin.

Eating while bored might be a reason, but a slothful life-style might be a sin.

Eating for entertainment might be a reason, but living for fun only might be a sin.

Eating because one always has (habit) might be a reason, but not being a new creature in Christ might be a sin.

I am sure there are more reasons, but defining these reasons in sin terms as I have for a few examples above puts it in a format that God can help us with. Defining something as sin or related to sin is not condemnation. We have all sinned and come up short. We should desire to see a problem as God sees it. Don't be surprised if you don't see it like God does. God is the healer and the skinny maker. Don't let popular terminology isolate you from the power of God to have victory over sin. Seeking first righteousness with skinny as a by product sounds fine to me.

Reasons invite you to do something yourself or find a mental solution to your problems (how's that been working out for everyone ??, ha.)
Sin revealed and surrendered invites God to do something. I have seen myself deal with things and I have seen God deal with things. God has the better record so if I have sin, or I might have sin, then I'm not going to busy myself finding a dictionary that doesn't have the word "sin" because it probably doesn't have the words "God" or "Healer" either.

Let me put it the way I would tell my child if they had a problem overeating. As you go to sleep tonight do not say over and over again, I will not eat too much tomorrow but say (probably just two or three times) God you are my healer and help me not to sin tomorrow and then go on to sleep.

P.S. (While the child is asleep toss the junk food and soda. I know...junk food and soda are not sinful, but they become sinful if God tells you to throw them out and you don't. What's the point of trying to establish that a child is not sining when he eats the stuff tomorrow that you didn't throw out. If you are such a child and now grown then you might thank your parents that you are skinny or you might blame them if you are overweight. Still, all the soda and junk food that you now keep as an adult is your sin now if God has told you to leave them alone or toss them.
 
All I was trying to say through this whole topic is that I (a hypothetically overweight wife) may be committing sin by not giving the best care to the body God gave me. I may be sinning by any of the things that WellTan listed in the previous post. Those things may be true. But I want everyone to understand that there is a lot that a husband or family can do to make the environment healthy by encouraging and uplifting the hypothetically overweight wife. The same can be true of a hypothetically overweight husband and his wife creating a healthy environment for him.

In my opinion, this is one place to build your relationship as a couple (family). With supportive spouses (one of the reasons for poly existance) we should all be able to achieve anything we want to achieve. By working together, we can turn workouts into fun family time or time to share our days with each other. With someone exercising along side, it isn't so easy to feel the aches and pains. With hubby running beside me last night I was able to complete a 1.2 mile run with only minor difficulty. If he had not been there telling me "great job" and "I am proud of you" I would probably have given up at 1/4 mile.

This website is about building relationships. It is about bringing out the best in husbands and wives. It is about growing healthy children. I was simply encouraging spouses to build up their spouses self confidence by leading by example.

Eventually, we should all be able to do these things alone with only our Father's approval to help them through, but that doesn't happen overnight. As a loving and supportive family leader, what man wouldn't want to find the best way to bring out the best in their family members and strive to help them achieve their goals. That includes helping them set goals.

As a family, we recognized that we are all damaged by the world. We are individuals who have been beaten up by the world and by "modern christianity." I have been so confused that half the time I don't know what the truth is. In my life the only time my mom has ever been "proud" of me is when I lost 160 lbs and when I am 10 weeks away from finishing my degree. I have achieved a lot in my 46 years, but those are the only times she has admitted to being proud of me. I know that at 46 I shouldn't still be seeking her approval, but here I am, working it out. We grow in spurts and this is my latest spurt. Trying to divorce myself from seeking the approval of anyone by my husband and my Lord. Good thing he loves us all where we are!

Anyway, my point is that if your spouse needs help getting over a "sin" and moving on to healthy lifestyle, then it is the duty of all the family memebers to pitch in and help him or her make it happen. That means not eating strawberry ice cream in front of your wife and not taking her to a restaurant with 1000 calorie meals. It means offering to grill (healthier) and tear up lettuce for the salad. And so on and so on...

SweetLissa
 
Yes, running or jogging is much easier to do with someone with you. When we jog (which we need to do more often) we start together and end together but do not always jog at the same pace. We have a circular path we go in and since we do it at different speeds we will be apart part of the time and then modify our speed to be together part of the time. Another thing I try to do is never get a free refill. That is very hard to do as I was raised very poor and not taking something free is very hard, especially if I like it. Since my metabolism has slowed down I eat a small breakfast and very little during the day. The evening meal is bigger and often left-overs. Left-overs are a very good choice as not eating too many left-overs for me is easy. (I find myself saying...Just how much of this stuff do I have to eat anyway. Seemed to tast better yesterday..ha) We also often eat out with friends and for fellowship. God has convicted me of using other Christians as an excuse to overeat. Watching another Christian eat without eating at at least the same pace they are eating at just seems wrong but can be done.
 
Lissa, I think you have said some really great things in this topic and most importantly, they have been said in love. I appreciated your input on this topic very much.

I just wanted to add to the discussion a couple things: the first would the lost art of fasting. I grew up in mainstream Christianity and never ever heard anyone talk about fasting as a way of life. I think that is indicative of the modern day "church" and its love of the world. It was such an eye opener to me to study fasting and discover the plethora of benefits to it.

Second, I have also noticed that overindulgence in food has become an acceptable sin/fault - especially among anabaptist groups who love to tote holiness in most other areas. It saddens me that many in those groups appear to be blind to the fact that it is not a good thing when every church function revolves around food and not just any food --- lots of sugary, bad for you food --- and LOTS of it.
 
I would highly suggest NOT using fasting for weight control and only using it for other reasons. In most situations fasting for weight loss is not good for health in the natural realm, in the long run, unless something supernatural happens. I am not against fasting for prayer, but in the natural realm it tends to make health worse not better unless something supernatural occurs in my opinion based on studying exercise physiology.
 
DiscussingTheTopic said:
I would highly suggest NOT using fasting for weight control and only using it for other reasons. In most situations fasting for weight loss is not good for health in the natural realm, in the long run, unless something supernatural happens. I am not against fasting for prayer, but in the natural realm it tends to make health worse not better unless something supernatural occurs in my opinion based on studying exercise physiology.
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I was not suggesting fasting for weight control. This discussion was about gluttony - sin or not, etc. I was bringing up fasting because fasting is about bringing the flesh under subjection = self control. I think everyone can agree that in America, there is a huge problem with overeating and overindulgence = lack of self control and bringing the flesh under subjection. I am including myself in having a problem with this as well.

And with everything I have studied, fasting only promotes health and has amazing benefits not only spiritually, but physically as well (when done properly). But overall, the physical benefits are a sidenote. Fasting should be done for the reasons listed in Isaiah 58. A great little book on fasting is called "God's Chosen Fast" by Arthur Wallis.
 
Better late than never... : )

Sorry.....edited due to public outcry...for the record I never called her a caboose or referred to her in that way except in telling the story...I used the expression in place of other words I could have used and apparently it came across as offensive which was not my intention. :|
 
Scarecrow, no offense, but I think that was REALLY mean. I'm sure you didn't mean it to be insulting, but it was. I think you could have left out the "caboose" and simply stated the positive part at the end. Women are like aliens compared to men, we do not work like men do. If you cared about your wife's feelings, you would encourage her to make healthy lifestyle choices, not refer to her as a caboose on a railroad. Just sayin... I know this offended a few women.
 
If the focus on the sin becomes blurred it will not be dealt with. Also the subject is just as true for a man as a woman. There is no reason to offend anyone over the sin of gluttony and there is no reason to be easily offended. When this occurs in a relationship sin can not be given to Christ. All sins offend something or someone and can be destructive of the body and realationships, but we should label the sin as the offense and work through Christ to get rid of it. Labeling the person as the offense or using offensive manner to motivate will not work as we do not want to get rid of the person (we love them). I am sorry but this is the way it goes, you can and should love someone but you may hate their smelly shoes or thier eating habits. Hiding endlessly a negative opinion towards your spouse is useless and dishonest. The sin of gluttony is not the holy grail of sins that is untouchable because of love. However this offense should be focused on the actual sin and not negative towards the whole person. A husband has input into an overweight wife's sin and eating habits and the same with a wife towards her husband. If her body is truely his then he has some authority over her outside of just a sexual relationship. However, tact and example, and teamwork should be utilized. But a relationship built on lies and falsehood is destructive. The fact is you may love your wife as much as you ever have, but if she (or you) has gained a lot of weight, then attraction and beauty has suffered and there is no point in denying it.
At this point someone is tempted to say, "but I will never be as young and beautiful/handsome as I once was so if you truely love me you will just have to put up with me". This implies that all 70 80 and 90 year old people should be unattractive and gluttons, which just is not true.
Some people think that they would run into a burning building to save a child or a spouse, but I have heard that is next to impossible when it actually happens. A gluttony sin is a slower death and if your spouse truely loves you they will do all they can to rescue you. Not everyone trying to rescue someone is doing it just to point out the flame and seemingly trying to get burnt. Also a person with a sin addiction can never tell someone how to cure them because if they knew how to stop they would have. Christ and Christ's tough love through your spouse and other Christians can work.
If gluttony is a sin then we can take it to the cross. You do not have to explain the sin to Christ. You do not need to tell your saviour how long you have had it, and the best approach Christ should take in helping you. Tell Christ you are bringing this sin to Him and want to lay it down but you do not know even how to lay it down. Hold on to it as tight as you like. Too tight for your spouse to yank it away. Too tight for the specialist to yank away. Too tight for yourself to yank it away. But our Christ is strong enough to honor the request of your heart over the strength in your arms. Christ is strong enough to take it away. Will it hurt? Only your arms might hurt a little because Christ is very strong. But your heart will not hurt because your heart loves Jesus and your heart love's your spouse. Your heart hurts now because you know the sin is hurting others you love and yourself. Until Christ does what only Christ can do your heart will continue to hurt and we all hurt with you because a Christian with a gluttony problem is still lovable. Don't let the sin tell you otherwise.
 
lissa,
you make some great points about the husbands responsibility to lead in health.
may i add that a husband should not "share" the burden of supporting the family so well that he runs his wife/wives ragged, unheathy, and prematurely aged.
part of the reason, i am convinced, that men do not have quite as much problem with weight gain is that we were designed to handle certain kinds of stress more easily. when we require our wives to share that stress equally (eg. bring home the bacon and fry it up in the pan) there are natural concequences.
 
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