PCC isn’t a church, it’s a school, and as such, it operates differently with added rules that would be out of place in a church setting, but may be legitimate and reasonable within a school setting. Can you list a couple of the reasons or things they do that makes them a cult?
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PCC isn’t a church, it’s a school, and as such, it operates differently with added rules that would be out of place in a church setting, but may be legitimate and reasonable within a school setting. Can you list a couple of the reasons or things they do that makes them a cult?
I would watch the video of Dale Fincher's testimony that I posted, even if you just watch the first few minutes. It can explain things better than I can on an internet forum.
I was rewatching Dales' video and around the 1;42-43 mark, he mentions that PCC enacted a rule against students reading their bible in a public space. In the first half-hour, he mentions male students getting inspected for hair length, where they would have to face the wall in their residence halls corridors. He mentioned their demerit system, where if you get so many demerits, you are campused ie cannot leave campus for two weeks. They are forbidden to speak to other students Each room had a prayer leader, whose job it was to report on the activities of their roommates. Another practice PCC has used was shadowing, where a person is removed from their dorms and forced to move into the dorm of a floor leader. They are required to stay with the floor leader 24/7 and cannot speak to other people. The rules themselves are not the main issue, they are a symptom of a deeper theological issue.
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I don’t have time to watch the vid. My days are too full now. But if things are as you describe, thats enough for me to never let my kids go and caution anyone else doing so.
To be fair, I’m decidedly not a fan of any so called Bible College. But that sounds more invasive than any IFB Ive heard of after Hyles Anderson and their virginity inspection.
To be fair, I’m decidedly not a fan of any so called Bible College. But that sounds more invasive than any IFB Ive heard of after Hyles Anderson and their virginity inspection.
Just wanted to add this, you mentioned that PCC is not a church. I disagree because they have a church on campus that all students and faculty are required to attend. They are not allowed to other local churches, with very few exceptions. So they micromanage every aspect of student and faculty lives ( I will see if I can find a pdf of their employment handbook) and mandate that they attend only the campus church... I think that could possibly be classified as a cult. Here are some excerpts from their employee handbook, which IMHO encroaches on the authority of husband and father regarding his family "
age 19
“We expect Our personnel not to…watch movies rated PG,R,or X whether on cable, Internet, regular TV, video or DVD. When personnel are seen at video rental places, it can hurt the person’s testimony and the ministry’s testimony”
Page 22
“God’s hand of blessing has been on this ministry, and we think one reason is because we, the faculty and staff, have chosen to live a life dedicated to God rather than follow the lifestyle of the world…A big area of temptation today is Hollywood movies in the PG, R, and X-rated categories…Hollywood movies always dull the appetite for spiritual things and eventually lead to a defeated Christian life, causing casualties to the temptations of the flesh. In time, that person will either leave the Lord’s work or at least be non-productive in the Lord’s work.”
Page 24
“Walking shorts and culottes should not be worn for shopping malls…Walking shorts and culottes should not be worn on Sundays, whether you are going for a walk on the beach or going for a picnic after church. Instead you could wear a casual dress or skirt…we ask that personnel daughters abide by these policies beginning on their thirteenth birthday.”
Page 28
For your spiritual well-being as well as the sake of the corporate testimony of this ministry, you are expected to attend Campus Church services regularly Sunday Morning (including Bible Study), Sunday evening, and Wednesday evening.
Certainly we would expect our personnel attending the Campus Church to also support it with their tithes and offerings.
Sunday is considered a day of rest–not a shopping day to go to the malls, shop for groceries, or participate in music benefits…sports activities…are to be reserved for days other than Sunday. Children should not play organized ball games on Sunday.
Here is a link to their handbook https://app.box.com/s/5zsrn1av8z
I just put the video up for those who care to watch it in its part or its entirety. I believe the testimony of a former student carries more weight than myself, who only had relatives attend and now both are raging atheists. Growing up in a Christian home does not mean one is saved, but sending one's kids to their environment can do a good job in turning them off to receiving the Gospel.
According to page 2 of the employee handbook unmarried and married staff are expected to live in school housing, unless permission is granted otherwise to live in private housing. This is not free housing provided as a benefit, they are also required to pay rent to their employer.
So PCC has moral standards. What a travesty!
You won't get that at college; the very opposite actually.
This is what college does to daughters...
You won't get that at college; the very opposite actually.
This is what college does to daughters...
@SerenaJoy82 , thank you for this information. I definitely wouldn't attend this institution, and pretty sure I wouldn't have my children attend.
I don't have the discretionary time to watch all of these links, but I'm still not sure even by your description that it qualifies as cult under my definition. All of this is voluntary activity. If you don't like it, I'm sure you can leave. There are some strange requirements, but it doesn't sound too much different than being in the military. Many private and public businesses have code of ethics/conduct clauses that dictate or scrutinize life away from the job as well.
The New Testament epistles outline some pretty strict expectations of believers too, including expulsion and giving over to Satan.
In my experience, most large organizations will experience negative publicity. How many graduates would counter these negative experiences outlined in your links with the opposite message? I'm sure you might find a 10:1 ratio. Again, I've never been to PCC and don't know too much about them. I'm just speaking broadly.
I don't have the discretionary time to watch all of these links, but I'm still not sure even by your description that it qualifies as cult under my definition. All of this is voluntary activity. If you don't like it, I'm sure you can leave. There are some strange requirements, but it doesn't sound too much different than being in the military. Many private and public businesses have code of ethics/conduct clauses that dictate or scrutinize life away from the job as well.
The New Testament epistles outline some pretty strict expectations of believers too, including expulsion and giving over to Satan.
In my experience, most large organizations will experience negative publicity. How many graduates would counter these negative experiences outlined in your links with the opposite message? I'm sure you might find a 10:1 ratio. Again, I've never been to PCC and don't know too much about them. I'm just speaking broadly.
I’m in basically the same boat with your thoughts on this. I’ve read some comments on some of the articles and some of them say they spent time there and that some of this stuff is exaggerated. It is voluntary and people do leave. I have seen other bible colleges that are completely unrelated to PCC, and they have similar codes of conduct for faculty and students while they are involved with the college. PCC might be a bit extreme, but i would stop short of calling them a cult.
Honestly, they don't sound much different from a Catholic boarding school. Definitely not cult like. If you can leave without fear of loosing your life or salvation then they're not a cult.
@SerenaJoy82, I want to make sure you understand that I'm not attacking your character or the validity of your concerns. I've just been around too long to listen to the sensationalism of some and immediately draw a conclusion. There are many things to fear or be cautious of in the religious world as a whole, but especially in the IFB ranks. Hyles is a prime example. On this particular subject, I feel comfortable saying PCC is a bit over the top, but not a cult.
For anyone interested in the Hyles Saga http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/jack_hyles_preface.php.
I was a member of Miller Road Baptist, when Dave started preaching there. I knew the kid that found the briefcase. I knew him pretty well. He was in the same grade as my brother, and I was in the same grade as his older sister. I will never forget how Jack blasted our church from the pulpit, after we dismissed his son, David. One of Dave's last sermons, was on how king Saul was not forgiven, but David was. Prior to that, the school had marched everybody into a room, where Dave blasted anyone and everyone with whom he could find fault, whether it be for failing grades, or a guy had hair that was too long.
I visited Jack's church one time when I was up in Illinois. He and his son had been preaching on "The Love of God", but that week, he chose to preach on "The LIKE of God", to tell everyone how much God likes them. I guess that was kind of refreshing to hear. I'll never forget the emphasis on "Soul-Winning". I don't know how many times I went through the "Roman's Road", with complete strangers. Yup, they just dropped a bunch of us young people off in a neighborhood, and said, "Go catch some fish", door-to-door style.
I was a member of Miller Road Baptist, when Dave started preaching there. I knew the kid that found the briefcase. I knew him pretty well. He was in the same grade as my brother, and I was in the same grade as his older sister. I will never forget how Jack blasted our church from the pulpit, after we dismissed his son, David. One of Dave's last sermons, was on how king Saul was not forgiven, but David was. Prior to that, the school had marched everybody into a room, where Dave blasted anyone and everyone with whom he could find fault, whether it be for failing grades, or a guy had hair that was too long.
I visited Jack's church one time when I was up in Illinois. He and his son had been preaching on "The Love of God", but that week, he chose to preach on "The LIKE of God", to tell everyone how much God likes them. I guess that was kind of refreshing to hear. I'll never forget the emphasis on "Soul-Winning". I don't know how many times I went through the "Roman's Road", with complete strangers. Yup, they just dropped a bunch of us young people off in a neighborhood, and said, "Go catch some fish", door-to-door style.
I have to respectfully disagree. A place that requires employees to live in school-approved housing and paying them rent is a cult unless they have permission to live elsewhere. Requiring that students and staff only attend the on-campus church and require that they tithe to said church, is a cult. Dictating the dress of spouses and daughters of staff, who are not employed is a cult. That is infringing upon the authority of a husband and father in his home. Requiring that their college-age kids only attend PCC is a cult. Encouraging people to spy on others and report their activities is classic cultic behaviour. It is easy not to call them a cult because they do have a great degree of biblical truth in their teachings, but "A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump." ( Galatians 5:9). Cults do everything they can to isolate their members and PCC does that. Cults also try to control the finances of their members and demand tithes and offerings, PCC does that by requiring that students and staff only attend their church. Finally, cults do everything that they can to micromanage every aspect of their member's lives. PCC has a culture that emphasizes obedience to the authority of the college and their affiliates. To disobey them is to disobey God Himself.
If you find me this statement in official or unofficial documents, not in someone's interpretation of policy, I will support your premise.
We have dealt with an IBF church like that here in our area and had family members there for 20+ years. They didn’t have it written in any kind of documentation, there was no campus housing or on campus jobs, but it was a defacto cult.
The Pastor ruled everything, but everyone and everything appeared so normal on the surface, and yet the reality would spill out from time to time. Fortunately, that happened during the first month or so we visited there 20 years ago. We had family who’d attended there for several years. After a few services, I knew something was wrong but couldn’t quite put my finger on it and so had been waiting to join. When it happened, it was surreal to watch everyone who wasn’t in “trouble” and those that were. That was our last time thru those doors.
Every other church and pastor in our area knows of them and their pastor even if they’ve never met him. The last of our family finally saw the light this year and left. I have never been so relieved. Its interesting watching them learn how to interact with real believers after 20+ years there.
The people we know who have left over the years have all exhibited PTSD symptoms and some of them even now aren’t over their brief stay even after 10+ years.
If PCC is not a cult now, it will be. There’s no way to have that kind of a lopsided authority structure and it not go wrong.
The Pastor ruled everything, but everyone and everything appeared so normal on the surface, and yet the reality would spill out from time to time. Fortunately, that happened during the first month or so we visited there 20 years ago. We had family who’d attended there for several years. After a few services, I knew something was wrong but couldn’t quite put my finger on it and so had been waiting to join. When it happened, it was surreal to watch everyone who wasn’t in “trouble” and those that were. That was our last time thru those doors.
Every other church and pastor in our area knows of them and their pastor even if they’ve never met him. The last of our family finally saw the light this year and left. I have never been so relieved. Its interesting watching them learn how to interact with real believers after 20+ years there.
The people we know who have left over the years have all exhibited PTSD symptoms and some of them even now aren’t over their brief stay even after 10+ years.
If PCC is not a cult now, it will be. There’s no way to have that kind of a lopsided authority structure and it not go wrong.
Like most churches eh?
Dress codes, living restrictions, moral standards...I don't think you realize that State Universities had all these things just 60 years ago.
I'm not saying they're not a cult, but much of what you find so objectionable is simply a reflection of our libertine age. I'm having a hard time seeing why much of this is a problem compared to the drunken orgy that is university these days; not to mention the communist propaganda.
I'm not defending the darkest elements of the IFB movement. I've seen it. It can be cultic.
Is PCC an independent, board ruled institution, or a ministry of a church? I will research it, but if anyone knows it would save me time.
I thought it was a ministry of a church. I do not know though and may be wrong.