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Corporate Christianity

Apparently Philippi did just that. But it was an irregular free will offering.

I hear what you’re saying, I think. From where I’ve come to now, I’d say there are so many unintended consequences to that path. That path, even with the best of intentions initially will become a doctrine of Balaam issue within a couple of generations IMO. Coveteousness is ingrained in our human psyche and coupled with power corrupts the leadership entirely.

Coming away from the Levitical model as the norm, Paul and the rest of the apostles would no doubt answer this matter more emphatically and have better reasons. I’d have to think about this question for a bit to line out what I see as the inevitable effects of this.

Fosters a substitutionary mindset, resulting in overburden to perform on the recipient and underburden on the giver. It either creates a sense of obligation to the giver or fosters a sense of entitlement in the gifted or both. It undermines the principle that every man provides his own bread, and sets his own money back to give to him that has need.

The collective storing of alms requires a storehouse, which require maintenance, which requires a steward, all of which creates a drain on the kingdoms funds that was never intended and a yoke on the subjects that is unjustified and a drain on time and attention that should be devoted to his family or studies. There will inevitably emerge a hierarchy, which will then necessitate a hierarchy for the hierarchy.

It removes the recipient from the marketplace, which limits his real time influence and ability to impact another with his real life witness. Real men value nothing higher than ones ability to work and create and provide for a family.

It will reinforce and enable dependence in some who don’t study, independence and isolation in others whose studies conflict with the “chosen one” or are more advanced. It will entirely fail to produce interdependence and unity except by acquiescence to fiat as the growing pains that are normal and necessary in an organism will be suppressed or ignored instead of embraced and studied through.

It fosters a face forward mentality in the congregation which is the antithesis of the given liturgy in 1 Cor 14:26. Our assemblies are to be like our love feasts. Every man brings forth from his own storehouse and shares a portion of what he’s gained with his brothers. Some more depth, some more breadth, but everyone should be sharing the fruits of their studies. I see no better way to encourage and establish men as priests over their own household. Instead of a congregation of priests and young priests in training (each of them able to lead) you will have a structure where the leaders worth is defined by how many dependents he accumulates, rather than how many interdependents he’s mentored and established.

Basically, all the problems I see with Corporate Christianity could conceivably stem from this one act of charity to one who should be the charitable one. Peter, do you love me? Feed from my sheep.
 
Fosters a substitutionary mindset, resulting in overburden to perform on the recipient and underburden on the giver.
Love the entire post, but this was the nut.
 
It served its purpose under the Old Covenant but is one of the primary changes to the law due to a reestablished Melchizedek style priesthood.

I like to annoy people by saying that since Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, and since I am a representative of the Melchizedek priesthood, the Jews owe me money.

I do have a comment though: Paul a couple of times gives his interpretation of 'muzzling not the ox'. I obviously hold no truck with tithing, but it seems that although it might be in poor taste for an elder to ask for support, those that are ruled by him had absolutely better get them free will offerings rolling.
 
A freewill offering of money for ministry is only recorded being given to Paul. Not as a beneficiary but as a dispensary. The beneficiary was always a poor or persecuted assembly, not its elder.

There is an example given in Matt 10:8 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
And as ye go, preach, saying,†The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
Nor scrip (a bag for food) for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

Luke 10:4-7 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
And into whatsoever †house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.

No charge, somebody just feed him and shelter him while he’s in town.

After they’ve been ordained as a priesthood,
Luke 22:34,35. And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes,†lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it,and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

The exception was not to be the norm, just an example that God could take care of them if they were without it. That being proven, take your own money and food with you.

The example of the elder needing to be supported indefinitely because he is providing a divine service only fits the Balaam model unless he can prove that he is a Levite and that his work is necessary for your atonement.

The Corporately supported single bishop model is a dependent parasitic model, as compared to a First Century model that was symbiotic and interdependent.
 
@Verifyveritas76
Totally tracking and agreeing with just about all you are saying, especially the substitutionary and enabling aspects. With you and amening you!

But just like there are poor parenting techniques, poor marriage arrangements, and poor governmental outputs, there are also poor ecclesiastical implementations. I do believe that the average evangelical church is much more papal in structure than ANY would ever be willing to admit.

I too envision a better model. I too champion the home church movement. I too hate the waste and extravagance of the corporate church. Just as I am libertarian minded in government, I believe that there is a need in Christianity for a limited government church. For practicalities sake, though, not everyone is gifted with the ability to organize. Not everyone is gifted with the time resource or the social boldness to unite a community of believers. Not everyone is apt to teach. For many, they want fellowship and brotherhood, but don't know where to find it. It's easier to drive by a sign that says "church" and find some semblance of a NT fellowship. Perfect? No. Limited use? Sure.

I do see limits to the home church model, though. If we use this forum as a laboratory or microcosm of the home church movement, we can see that there are some batty people out there with questionable intentions. Do I want to be inviting all those people into my home, just because they name the name of Christ? I really don't want perfect strangers in my home getting the layout of my home and befriending my children and wife. This site uses moderators and has a leadership structure, however loose it may be. It's necessary to have decency and order.

For me, I envision a modern church building as basically an empty hall or gutted home either purchased or rented where a group of organized believers are free to schedule and use the facility. It would be a neutral ground. A home church, just not at my home.

The apostolic model in scripture was the incubation stage of where the church was going. I think it was a first chapter of sorts. It provided a model, but not the archetype. Believers throughout the ages need to fill in the gaps and implement with the help of the Holy Spirit. I am a grace Christian and believe that absent a specific law or prohibition, there is liberty.
 
From the Didache (Athanasius describes it as 'appointed by the Fathers to be read by those who newly join us, and who wish for instruction in the word of goodness' [Festal Letter 39:7]. Hence a date for the Didache in its present form later than the second century must be considered unlikely, and a date before the end of the first century probable.)

If someone impresses you for one mile, go with him two. If someone takes your cloak, give him also your coat. If someone takes from you what is yours, ask it not back, for indeed you are not able. Give to every one who asks you, and ask it not back; for the Father wills that to all should be given of our own blessings (free gifts). Happy is he who gives according to the commandment, for he is guiltless. Woe to him who receives; for if one receives who has need, he is guiltless; but he who receives not having need shall pay the penalty, why he received and for what. And coming into confinement, he shall be examined concerning the things which he has done, and he shall not escape from there until he pays back the last penny. And also concerning this, it has been said, Let your alms sweat in your hands, until you know to whom you should give.

Chapter 11. Concerning Teachers, Apostles, and Prophets. Whosoever, therefore, comes and teaches you all these things that have been said before, receive him. But if the teacher himself turns and teaches another doctrine to the destruction of this, hear him not. But if he teaches so as to increase righteousness and the knowledge of the Lord, receive him as the Lord. But concerning the apostles and prophets, act according to the decree of the Gospel. Let every apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord. But he shall not remain more than one day; or two days, if there's a need. But if he remains three days, he is a false prophet. And when the apostle goes away, let him take nothing but bread until he lodges. If he asks for money, he is a false prophet. And every prophet who speaks in the Spirit you shall neither try nor judge; for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven. But not every one who speaks in the Spirit is a prophet; but only if he holds the ways of the Lord. Therefore from their ways shall the false prophet and the prophet be known. And every prophet who orders a meal in the Spirit does not eat it, unless he is indeed a false prophet. And every prophet who teaches the truth, but does not do what he teaches, is a false prophet. And every prophet, proved true, working unto the mystery of the Church in the world, yet not teaching others to do what he himself does, shall not be judged among you, for with God he has his judgment; for so did also the ancient prophets. But whoever says in the Spirit, Give me money, or something else, you shall not listen to him. But if he tells you to give for others' sake who are in need, let no one judge him.

Chapter 12. Reception of Christians. But receive everyone who comes in the name of the Lord, and prove and know him afterward; for you shall have understanding right and left. If he who comes is a wayfarer, assist him as far as you are able; but he shall not remain with you more than two or three days, if need be. But if he wants to stay with you, and is an artisan, let him work and eat. But if he has no trade, according to your understanding, see to it that, as a Christian, he shall not live with you idle. But if he wills not to do, he is a Christ-monger. Watch that you keep away from such.

Chapter 13. Support of Prophets. But every true prophet who wants to live among you is worthy of his support. So also a true teacher is himself worthy, as the workman, of his support. Every first-fruit, therefore, of the products of wine-press and threshing-floor, of oxen and of sheep, you shall take and give to the prophets, for they are your high priests. But if you have no prophet, give it to the poor. If you make a batch of dough, take the first-fruit and give according to the commandment. So also when you open a jar of wine or of oil, take the first-fruit and give it to the prophets; and of money (silver) and clothing and every possession, take the first-fruit, as it may seem good to you, and give according to the commandment.

FWIW. Firstfruits are not a tithe. Firstfruits are taken in a basket. One tenth of a harvest doesnt fit in a basket.
 
It's not against scripture. It appears to be allowed. You have to making some jumps to make it look like Paul wasn't explicitly endorsing it. Do not muzzle the ox, do not. That's a very hard phrase to explain away even thought the libs try. Any restriction you put on the oxe would just be a degree of muzzling. Do not muzzle the ox. Do not. Don't do it.
 
The ox was the symbol of the letter A. The aleph, and always represented the head of household. The one who brings home the bacon is to be first partaker.

In comparison, Christ is the head of the church/household, not the bishop or elder or shepherd. We are all brothers. Heads of our own households. Brothers assembling to honor our father. No man is to be called Master, Lord or Rabbi but Christ.

Authority in the assembly is to be gained by influence, not fiat. There is no vicar on earth. Each one has his own gift that God has given to be able to edify the assembly. By utilizing these gifts, elders “rule” in an assembly by influencing the assembly. This “rule” is a very limited rule and basically exists to the degree that they are utilizing the authority of the Word. It’s not their Power, but His. Anyone usurping this authority for their own personal gain or glory is illegitimate. Of course this is in a Biblical Church, not to be found in a Corporate one.

The entire premise behind not muzzling an ox is that he is working, and he gets to eat first of the fruits of his labor. He doesnt get to sit back and wait til the bread is made to decide he can muster up enough energy to exercise his table muscles and dining etiquette on someone else’s corn. If the ox decides that he wants to share his cornmeal, thats a different story. It’s his cornmeal. It doesnt belong to the brother that decided he’d rather not work that day, or last week or last month.

OTOH, I suppose you could say that the “pastor” is working his tail off to make some spiritual bread and this is his justification for why he wont labor with his own hands the thing that is good. No worries! He can eat his own bread and share however much he wants to. And I’ll eat mine and share however much I want to. No muzzles for either of us. It’s when they try to exchange some of their bread for mine that I have an issue. From experience, with few exceptions, theirs has been not worth the exchange rate. I’ll let them eat it. We’ll see how long it takes him to make bread like mine.

The study of the Word of God is not a legitimate excuse not to work. Thats our reasonable service. The fodder that gets put out today represents only about 15 to 20 minutes per 30-40 min. sermon for someone who knows their Bible and has an actual point to get across. Bible apps might reduce that to 5-10 min if its a really shallow topic. The majority of the rest of the week is spent doing busybody work or preparing to entertain the audience with all of the other side courses that have nothing to do with the message.
 
@Verifyveritas76

You are not going to get an argument from me or many others on here about the excesses of the modern entity we call "church". It's fraught with all of what you describe. You won't get an argument from me. However, the excesses and abuses don't deligitimize the entire basic structure of an assembly as some choose to assemble.

In the past, I've described three basic approaches to fix the whole thing we call church.

Reformer
Purifier
Separatist

You are clearly in the sSeparatist camp. All power to you. It works for you. I think it's different strokes for different folks. I liken it to strict Torah observance. If you want to do it, please proceed. In grace, if I choose not to, please don't condemn me because of my preference. Again, there are no prohibitions, so let grace and your Liberty guide you in how you want to proceed.

I think I have landed on trying to be a reformer since I think the structures we have now are so rotten , they are beyond purifying. I think the corporate, entertainment model only has a limited lifespan. It will crumble soon, and it will crumble because of its weight. It requires too much from its clergy and its clergy are too concerned with empires, not the Kingdom.

I also think you are ignoring the time aspect of ministry beyond sermons. For practicality, many in an assembly cannot take the 3 am call when someone is about to commit suicide, or just found out they have a malignant tumor. There are hurts and needs beyond the time limitations the average Joe has to be "on call". They have jobs and can't just pick up and go.

There's so much more to unpack here, but I think you know where I stand.
 
The study of the Word of God is not a legitimate excuse not to work.
The study and teaching of the word of God ought to be "work".
1 Tim. 5:17-18 Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine.
For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain," and, "The laborer is worthy of his wages."
If a shepherding teacher isn't working up a sweat preparing to teach and going and teaching (i.e. laboring in the word and doctrine), he isn't to be counted worthy of double honor. If he is, then he is worthy of double honor. The reason is straightforward; For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain," and, "The laborer is worthy of his wages."
Paul the apostle wrote of Phoebe, in Romans 16:1-2 as a woman who "has been a helper of many and of myself also" (v:2). The word "helper" is from a legal term referring to one who financially assists; a patroness.

There is nothing unbiblical about a man receiving financial assistance as he labors in the work God has given him. However, if he's downloading sermons off sermom.com and asking for money once he's read them to the crowd filling his converted stadium, that's a whole different situation. Especially when he asks for money for his new private jet!
 
I’d agree with the first part, and agree that the love feast was a full on pot-luck meal. Not sure that they were/are the same thing.

It is not 100% clear in my mind either, but we do know that the Lord's supper was an actual meal based on the things that Paul talks about in the Corinthean church where they were doing it wrong (How did they get drunk on wine in those little cups? Why did Paul tell them that they had homes to eat in if they were just eating one micro-cracker? etc.)

In my view they seem to fit well together, too. So when I do family church we do the Lord's supper and then follow up with a Love feast and it is basically the same event. It just a joyous meal that we remember and put Christ first. If that makes any sense.

And at home church we are one cuppers, too, germs be damned!
 
I like the one cup model as well. @cnystrom

@Mojo. I’m hearing you and no doubt you are where you are for a reason and a season. I’d say I’m trying to head towards a separatist and a purist if I can figure out where that is. The more I learn about the early church, the more I recognize Roman Catholicism in so much of what we think is Biblical. I’m just at the point where I cannot justify my participation in it.

1 Tim. 5:17-18 Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine.
For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain," and, "The laborer is worthy of his wages."
If a shepherding teacher isn't working up a sweat preparing to teach and going and teaching (i.e. laboring in the word and doctrine), he isn't to be counted worthy of double honor. If he is, then he is worthy of double honor. The reason is straightforward; For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain," and, "The laborer is worthy of his wages."

Frederick, I’m unsure why anyone would mistake honor in 1 Tim 5:17-18 for money. Never was the divine cost for anything double. It was always an additional 20% over its normal value. Even the Levitical inheritance comes out to the same cost. Levites getting a regular inheritance = 100% of 1 portion. Levites getting a divine inheritance = 10% *12 portions= 120%

As to the worthy of double honor, even the elder that doesnt labor in word and deed but takes care of his responsibilities and rules his house well is worthy of double honor. One who also labors in word and deed is especially worthy of the honor.

As to the working up a sweat preparing to teach, I’d have to see it to believe it. I’m a 3rd generation preacher/teacher. Never pastored but both my father and grandfather pastored and I have a brother in the ministry in Australia. Ive rubbed shoulders and had access to a lot of preachers and Ive never seen anyone break a sweat studying. As far as the reward for speaking goes, the honor should be enough. Freely you’ve been given, freely give. Your reward is in heaven, unless you get paid for it here.

For the record, perhaps I’m a bit harsh on those who expect to be paid for studying because of my own experiences in study. Not to toot my own horn, but I have a busy family, own and run a General Contracting company where I’ll typically work 40-50 hrs per week minimum, when we were attending a Corporate assembly I was teaching Adult S.S. on a regular basis and preaching as well, and I still managed to log over 2000 hours of strictly Bible study in just over two years time. No commentaries, no Christian books on different topics, just Bible.

I’ve never taken one dime for any of this, (free will or otherwise) and when other men have an issue with providing for their family and studying to open the Word before others, and then look for reasons to monetize their hobby studies off the hard work of the assembly so they don’t have to provide for their families, I have a hard time looking the other way and acting like its all good. Honor? Not hardly.

First fruits and Free will offerings for preachers I have nothing against, as long as it isn’t asked for by the beneficiary. That man is a Christ monger.

Teaching the principle of a tenth (tithe) for the support of anything not Levitical Atonement is a doctrine of Balaam issue. If you’re not Levite or Aaronic you’re not supposed to touch it. It’s sanctified for them for ministering at the Temple.

Any man that wont work shouldn’t eat. The idea of being a Christian and getting paid to study God’s Word? Thats just reasonable christian service. Being a Christian and getting paid to share the gospel? Thats just reasonable service. All that stuff we teach, where’d we get it from? How much did the Holy Spirit charge us to reveal it to us? And we wanna get paid for giving it to someone else? That sounds a lot like Simon Magus.
 
@rockfox said:
“In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.
That wasn't a condemnation. God made it quite clear later He didn't actually want them to have a king, that the desire for a human king was a rejection of God. So too today He wants us to be lead by the Holy Spirit, not by human institutions. Our faith must be based in Christ, not in our membership to any particular human organization.
I think that it might be also translated “every man followed his conscience.” Whether he did right or wrong would depend on his own morals.
Open to correction by the people knowledgeable in Hebrew.

conscience in Hebrew bible is expressed as "to see/examine one's own heart".
That's not happening here. I've always seen this as a negative "to do what is right in one's own eyes".

I agree with this scholar's comment:
"The supplementary stories that conclude the book deal with the cultic manifestation of the anarchy which preceded the careers of Samuel and Saul. "
Boling, R. G. (2008). Judges: introduction, translation, and commentary (Vol. 6A, p. 256). New Haven; London: Yale University Press.

The "right in his own eyes" is not contrasted to having a king verses having judges; it's an allusion to what comes from that, namely the story of Michah and his hybrid religion of having an idol and also having a Levite.
The "right in own eyes" is a polemic blast against such lawlessness. If anything it draws a parallel to the days of Noah and really has nothing to do with interpreting the word as we see fit.

***I haven't read through the thread yet so if someone made these points already, my bad****
 
The KJV has Paul learning tent making to support himself. This always bothered me because that seemed like such a minimum wage occupation. Something that people would have their slaves do, and it would take a lot of space to do it in.
It was with great pleasure that I read in the translation from Aramaic that he was a saddle maker. Same word, you just had to deduce the meaning from the context.
Saddle making being a much higher skill and probably in greater demand, so the remuneration should be greater. After all, traveling does cost money and he did a fair bit of it.
Messianics usually teach that "tent maker" here is a misunderstanding and that it means he made and sold Tallits (prayer shawls with the fringed on them commanded in the Torah to be worn).
I don't have anything to back that up with; just something I've heard many times and never really cared to dwell on. A large Tallit can be used as a wedding canopy for the couple to stand under, hoisted up on 4 poles so it's a lot like a tent.
If this interpretation is correct, it's nice because it has Paul actually doing something ministry-related to support himself (i.e. helping others to fulfill the Torah command to wear fringes on their garments).
 
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For the record, perhaps I’m a bit harsh on those who expect to be paid for studying
Vv, please read again the words I actually wrote as I think you missed the point. You appear to view things through the lens of the American business church which isn't what I intended to be understood. Paul's instruction in 1 Tim. 5:17-18 isn't in conflict with what he says in Rom. 16:1-2 regarding Phoebe providing financial assistance for himself and others. Shalom
 
Frederick, I’m unsure why anyone would mistake honor in 1 Tim 5:17-18 for money.
It's not a mistake. The word translated "honor" in that passage literally means "price", and only metaphorically means "honor". A couple of English words that would better illustrate the double meaning would be "value" (Latin) or "worth" (Anglo-Saxon). If something has worth or value, then if you want it (or want some of it) the question becomes what are you willing to exchange for it? Or if someone has given it to you, what are you willing to give back in appreciation?

Being "worth your weight in gold" is a metaphor, kind of, but it gets the point across. Elders that rule well are valuable to the assembly and its individual members. And the analogy Paul gives says that if someone or something is doing your heavy lifting for you then you feed it. I'd consider that a bare minimum standard.

Put another way, rulership (this isn't a pastor-teacher thing, btw, it's elders who rule, and rule well, whatever that means) is a "put your money where your mouth is" proposition. How much is that ruling elder worth to you? If it's supposed to be double, then double what? What's a ruling elder who rules poorly, or is just mediocre, worth?

Modern corporate pastors (motivational speakers) don't qualify for this honor, whatever it turns out to be. And @Verifyveritas76, with the utmost respect for your scholarship, I think you've got the telescope backwards. You have a belief and an attitude toward modern church "leadership" that devalues the role of elders and drives you to explain away terms such as "price" and "grain"--scriptural evidence of material support and compensation for a valuable elder. I see an unremarkable statement that ruling elders should be supported materially, stakes raised by saying those who rule well are worth double, and I submit that we won't really have worked out what "ruling" means for elders (or what "elder" means, for that matter) until we've figured out what kind of elder we'd cheerfully and generously support, feeling somewhat that we're still getting the better end of the deal.

Final thought: This is just a variation of the traditional Oriental dojo system, wherein those who benefited from a master's training were expected to provide material support, or if that was out of their reach, do chores and provide assistance to the master in exchange for the benefit received. Again, I don't see it as being that remarkable a proposition; I submit that the falldown is that the modern corporate system into which we were all conditioned is based on a fundamentally different and fundamentally false and inhuman principle. Getting from one to the other--let alone getting from modern corporate churchianity to "the body of Christ"--is more leap of faith than logical progression.
 
I look at it as basic economics. We compensate others for things we cannot do,nor do very well, on our own, or do not have a gift for (that long list Paul gives).

If I wanted to learn Hebrew, I guess I could self teach, but wouldn't it be a better model if I found a master teacher who had made it his life's ministry to learn that, and then learned under him? I would compensate. I would never expect it for free. If he chooses to do it for free, I would still bring a bag of groceries from time to time. It's just common courtesy.

@Verifyveritas76 i also think your lense is as a multigenerational believer with certain gifts. I wouldn't expect a new believer to do all you've done. You've had years of master teachers guiding you down your path.


Bi-vocational is perhaps the best middle ground????
 
It seems, by the context, to be a bad thing.

Does it ever actually say that? No, that emphasis is read into the simple statement. Go to what God and Samual told the people when they asked for a king. God is VERY clear that it was bad and that it was a rejection of Himself as their king.

A missionary being supported by a regular investment of a freewill gift is about the only caveat I see to this, but that model still is not the model given or exampled by Paul. He received free will offerings on occasion but that was in addition to his own income, it wasn’t his income. This allowed him to further the ministry, not fill his belly.

Agreed. Though I would add to that direct from person to elder free will gifts; provided the left/right hand rule is followed. Especially those elders who teach.

And yes 99% of all churches violate this.

I’d agree with the first part, and agree that the love feast was a full on pot-luck meal. Not sure that they were/are the same thing.

Since we’ve been attending our Church on the Couch, I’m not exactly certain how I’m gonna put this into effect. Quite a few things going through my mind on this. I wanna get it right. Still working that out in my mind.

We do participate in regular love feasts with other believers we meet with and having conversations with them re Lords Supper/Table.

Look at Paul's warnings of the abuse of this feast in 1 Cor 11. They were the same thing. Well, there was certainly a single loaf and single cup that was shared in remembrance of Christ and the covenant. But it would have been part of the feast.

Yes, I too think it should be done with 1 cup; as did much of Christianity until people started their worship of medical science. That is how it was instituted and fully carries the symbolism. If you're more afraid of germs than following God I don't expect you to last through persecution.

I agree with the overall gist of this post, brother. I just want to add that, while there are limited examples of "paid clergy" in scripture, I'm not sure I see a prohibition either. If any group of believers wants to get together and support someone financially to perform certain duties of organization, etc...is it a violation of a biblical law or edict, or just a violation of principle?

This isn't like sin, we're talking about how Christ constituted His church, and He didn't constitute it with paid clergy.

There are also a number of smaller prohibitions. First, centralized giving by check and tabulated or tax purposed violates all the principles of giving Christ outlined. Second, the tithe/offering was given for a specific purpose and strictly by free-will, most churchian offerings have some level of coercion; if for no other reason that the whole structure depends on it. Then there are the condemnations of those who make merchandise of the saints.

In general, when you have salaried pastors the result inevitably turns into something opposite what the scriptures line out.

But near anonymous free will offerings from person to elder (or missionaries via a collection) are biblical near as I can see.

Take away modern church offerings and the whole of American churchianity collapses overnight. Completely. That is a difference in kind to what you see in the NT.
 
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