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Biblical or not

  • Thread starter Thread starter James A
  • Start date Start date
A Proverbs 31 woman could be "super hot" to some.
I was in a place of business once where one...ONE...woman was attending to about five customers all at once at the counter and doing a bang up job at it. She wasn't frazzled or angry, nothing. She was industrious and hard working. She was getting her stuff done and quite well. She wasn't adorned with beautiful clothes, or super beautiful, but just doing her job so well made her...attractive! It was weird. She wasn't old or too young, and wasn't wearing any items to signal being married (she was an immigrant, and I wasn't sure if that was within her culture), but I tempered myself with the benefit of doubt and kept my admiration in check to be safe.
 
Gentlemen if you can gain a correct perspective on this issue it will free you from a life of bondage and shame that has been placed upon you due to the incorrect teachings about this subject. The church standard about this issue is completely impossible to keep and is a tool used to keep men walking through life defeated and emasculated. Study this subject out and remove your cultural bias. You will be glad you did.
I believe there is cultural bias on both ends, though. Culturally speaking, single ladies would not be out parading themselves alone and provocatively (if their fathers had anything to say about it) in Hebrew culture. Married women would be well known or marked. Neither the married or unmarried would be flaunting huge amounts of flesh. Barring SOS, most of the times a woman in scripture is described as beautiful, it relates to her face. I've met very old women whose face and eyes speak to their former physical beauty while maintaining their current inner beauty.

So, while I may disagree with @James A overall conclusion about noticing physical beauty, I can see where and why some of our brothers are trying to exercise caution in where their eyes go and how long they stay there. With all the flesh that hangs out at the average summer get together, or even just walking down the street, it can be easy to get caught up in craning our necks constantly and getting out of balance with the spiritual endeavors the Almighty has given us, like "going, teaching, baptizing".
 
I apprecaite everyone who has posted on this thread so far thank you.
Thank you for starting the conversation. :) Regardless of the differences, it's a good topic and has certainly been entertaining. :D

In regards to your opinion, I understand where you're coming from even though I definitely do not agree with you on your conclusion. I think you're stuck on the wording of all of this when, in my opinion, it's more about the heart/meaning/intent motivating the words we choose...and that isn't definitively surmised by the words chosen. One can say "she's super hot" and be completely righteous and focused on God as you have expressed we should be. One can also say, "She's a Proverbs 31 woman and would make an excellent wife" and be sinning somehow behind it all. I do hope you further consider the position the majority of your brothers and sisters hold and have presented to you as it saddens me to see a brother unnecessarily kept in bondage by what I feel is the "church's" teaching, and not scripture. But ultimately, God is the only one you'll have to answer to, and if you're personally convicted by this, I'd say keep on keeping on...you do you. :) Blessings to you, brother!
 
Mate, everything takes your mind from God in some way. I don't think about Him while I'm taking a dump, while I'm chopping up veges for dinner, or while I'm cleaning vomit from a child's bed. Life is life. But let me tell you when I DO think about God. When I'm looking at my husband and thinking he looks insanely hot right now and I'm so very glad that God brought us together.

There's a concept that's pushed by the churches that looking at a man or a woman is a sin, is lust, and the way they try and stop you from doing it is to tell you that it stops you from growing and takes you backwards into sin. Absolute bollocks. Don't get drawn into that. It's needlessly complicated and just downright stupid. I can sniff a flower and think it smells nice and not think about God, and guess what, it doesn't affect my growth. I can look at a guy on TV and think he's a bit attractive, and it doesn't affect my growth. I can look at my husband and want to jump his bones and that doesn't take away my growth either.
Can we lock this one in the all time posts vault? We've got dumps, vomit, and jumping bones all in one post!
 
I believe there is cultural bias on both ends, though. Culturally speaking, single ladies would not be out parading themselves alone and provocatively (if their fathers had anything to say about it) in Hebrew culture. Married women would be well known or marked. Neither the married or unmarried would be flaunting huge amounts of flesh. Barring SOS, most of the times a woman in scripture is described as beautiful, it relates to her face. I've met very old women whose face and eyes speak to their former physical beauty while maintaining their current inner beauty.

So, while I may disagree with @James A overall conclusion about noticing physical beauty, I can see where and why some of our brothers are trying to exercise caution in where their eyes go and how long they stay there. With all the flesh that hangs out at the average summer get together, or even just walking down the street, it can be easy to get caught up in craning our necks constantly and getting out of balance with the spiritual endeavors the Almighty has given us, like "going, teaching, baptizing".

Yes, I have to personally be careful not to get distracted from what I need to do for the kingdom. Sometimes this vs pops up in my head.
“Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭31:3‬ ‭KJVA‬‬
For me the short and simple is it’s totally Ok and good to admire and notice a woman’s God given beauty. I find it personally wise to inquire of a woman’s marital status and character before seriously attempting to make her mine so I don’t end up in a shady spot coveting something Of my neighbors or should not have as it could turn my heart from my God or cause me to waste vauluable time.
I believe that it’s is a good thing to lead an unbelieving uncovered woman to the truth and faith with the hope and intent to cover her but for me I don’t want to cross that “wife” line unless she is a believer so I try and guard my heart in that case as well.
I’m a little off track from the original post sorry lol
 
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I am looking at this from a different lense from everyone else. I am waiting until marraige and have and continue to minister God to this lost and dieing world-a mininster at heart. I have seen and talked to so many ladies/men that have been hurt by the other gender. In so many of those conversations they say that conversation started based upon looks. Many where waiting until marraige like me. But they did not solidly found there relationship or conversation in God. I can not based upon my life experiences in my past, the stories in the bible such david- looking a lady and thinking she is hot-in this case a married women resulted in a bad turn out for him. Solmonon the wises man ever had many wives. He fell away because he did not marry Godly ladies- what do you think caused him to do that. Samsung had his strength taken because of a beauty of a lady. I apprecaite everyones opnion but based on everything and discernment of the Holy Spirit. Going back to the original post that started this thread- is it biblical to say a lady is super hot I am staying with in my opnion saying no and going to the point of saying it opens to many avenues of problems. If a relationship is not grounded in God. It leaves to much room for bad to happen in my opnion.
Brother, I can appreciate your concern as a single man. If you had to choose between (beautiful/ungodly) and (ugly/godly) then you should be cautious. But, thats not the binary choice you have to necessarily make. Many of us have found beautiful AND godly women. It's possible. But in order for that to happen, you kinda have to notice beauty...just a bit.

Peace to you James. May god bless you richly with one or more future mates.
 
2 Corinthians 6:14 KJV
[14] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


You’re taking a negative command and ripping it completely from the context and turning it into a positive command then trying to shoehorn it into a prohibition on natural attraction. This verse in context says nothing about male female relationships and it doesn’t even apply to marriage.

Keep grasping at straws and holding onto that Greco Roman mono only anti masculinity bias if you like but stop claiming it’s scriptural because it’s not.
Come on Pac. You know better than that. This is from one ditch to the other. I get most of the Church makes it purely about relationships which is wrong but then you tried to make it nothing to do with relationships which is the other ditch. I thought it was common knowledge but to be yoked in hebraic thought Is to attach your self to someone to achieve something. Most people use the idea of a contract as a yoke which marriage happens to be one and it is by far the most spoke about in scripture. This is what my warning was about. It's one side to the other. It must be in our nature to go from one extreme to the other because it always seems to happen.
 
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Brothers, try to put yourself in the mindset of a woman who feels plain. Who doesn’t feel very attractive.
If she were to read your posts, which of you do you think that she would feel acceptable to? So many of the posts on this thread could be unnecessarily discouraging to her.
 
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Come on Pac. You know better than that. This is from one ditch to the other. I get most of the Church makes it purely about relationships which is wrong but then you tried to make it nothing to do with relationships which is the other ditch. I thought it was common knowledge but to be yoked in hebraic thought Is to attach your self to someone to achieve something. Most people use the idea of a contract as a yoke which marriage happens to be one and it is by far the most spoke about in scripture. This is what my warning was about. It's one side to the other. It must be in our nature to go from one extreme to the other because it always seems to happen.

Bro that post was a specific reply to this:

Lusting or desiring a lady of pyshical attractiveness is that being egually yoked.

And I stand by it. I agree we shouldn’t be taking unbelievers. My point was he was trying to apply that principle to noticing a woman being hot and it doesn’t even come close to applying.
 
Brothers, try to put yourself in the mindset of a woman who feels plain. Who doesn’t feel very attractive.
If she were to read your posts, which of you do you think that she would feel acceptable to? So many of the posts on this thread could be unnecessarily discouraging to her.

I agree with you Steve and the thing is as we muture and life and experience takes its toll, one starts to see the beauty of a woman from the inside and we start to realize there are some really beautiful women out there that the world may say otherwise but in reality if we as men would stop looking to the world to satisfy our desires we could see that beauty and end up being happier in the long run. A 'hot' woman according to the world, 9 times out of 10 is not so hot on the inside. Young men would do well to let go of the worlds ideas of beauty when it comes to these things
 
I agree with you Steve and the thing is as we muture and life and experience takes its toll, one starts to see the beauty of a woman from the inside and we start to realize there are some really beautiful women out there that the world may say otherwise but in reality if we as men would stop looking to the world to satisfy our desires we could see that beauty and end up being happier in the long run. A 'hot' woman according to the world, 9 times out of 10 is not so hot on the inside. Young men would do well to let go of the worlds ideas of beauty when it comes to these things
Amen to that!
 
I agree with you Steve and the thing is as we muture and life and experience takes its toll, one starts to see the beauty of a woman from the inside and we start to realize there are some really beautiful women out there that the world may say otherwise but in reality if we as men would stop looking to the world to satisfy our desires we could see that beauty and end up being happier in the long run. A 'hot' woman according to the world, 9 times out of 10 is not so hot on the inside. Young men would do well to let go of the worlds ideas of beauty when it comes to these things

If they did in large it would force the good lookin ones to work on their inner self lol
 
I apprecaite all the feedback and wisdom in Christ. I have reached my max input in this thread. Love everyone on here as brothers and sisters in Christ. I am glad we can have discussions that are interesting-.,Godly and stimulating
 
Brothers, try to put yourself in the mindset of a woman who feels plain. Who doesn’t feel very attractive.
If she were to read your posts, which of you do you think that she would feel acceptable to? So many of the posts on this thread could be unnecessarily discouraging to her.

Frankly I feel plain lol but to each man has his own 'smoking hot' I don't feel the least discouraged.. more humored I think. I'm more curious about @James A perspective .. Women aren't necessarily fond of a man holding himself away unless he explains himself.

A curiosity is what some ' religious ' do in that they deny their husband because they're saving themselves for Jesus.. I could see that happening here.. anyway a little random maybe dunno..
 
I wish the church would be honest about what it teaches and just start making women wear burkas, that would be more intellectually consistent.

Hallelujah, @Asforme&myhouse!

I have recounted elsewhere having had some extensive conversations with Muslim men and women here in America, all of whom have emphasized to me that the burka has produced the opposite of its supposed intention. They are all convinced that men spend more time thinking about having sex with women who wear burkas and wondering exactly what they look like under all that covering.

Human desire cannot be quenched -- and if it were meant to be, our Father wouldn't have placed it in our hearts (and elsewhere).

@James A, let's talk about this at the retreat.
 
I apprecaite the offer to talk about this at the retreat but I will take all the advice from here and continue to put it under the lens of studying in my time with God along in my personal life
 
Brothers, try to put yourself in the mindset of a woman who feels plain. Who doesn’t feel very attractive.
If she were to read your posts, which of you do you think that she would feel acceptable to? So many of the posts on this thread could be unnecessarily discouraging to her.

@steve, I concur with @Cap's response to you, but I also see dangers in devoting too much energy in general to preventing certain individuals from feeling plain. What I've observed in life is that there is a rather large correlation between inner beauty and outer beauty; i.e., when one is beautiful on the inside (especially when one is appreciated for it), one's outer presence will increasingly reflect that inner beauty in the form of increased outer beauty. Cap described that above in a post about a woman serving five people at once.

Something has been missing in the life of a woman who feels plain. Probably the proper attention from her father growing up. Perhaps associating with people whose focus is on superficial beauty (which, in my humble opinion, is usually far from being sustainably smoking hot). And very likely the absence of a significant other as an adult who has been willing to articulate how gorgeous she is in his eyes.

That is where the current responsibility lies for transforming the negative physical self-image of a woman: in the speaking and non-verbal behavior of her soul mate. Only when she is receptive to being convinced by such verbal and non-verbal behavior will she have the opportunity to heal. I truly believe that no amount of men-at-large refraining from indicating who they think is sexy will make up for a woman having ended up with a negative self-image -- so the end result would just be a combination of other women hearing less about how hot they are and men in general suppressing their self-expression. We see that in the culture at large: young women reporting low physical self-esteem is at an all-time high in the face of everyone having become convinced that speaking about outward beauty is objectification. I'll never forget something a female friend of mine said back in the early 1980's in rejection of feminism: "If being told I'm sexy is objectification, I sure hope I never stop being a sex object!"

Yes, there are some women whom almost all men think are hot (and some men whom almost all women think are hot), but the vast majority of people are considered sexy not by everyone but by far larger numbers of people of their sexual persuasion than they'll ever know. No woman is considered plain by everyone. But if any individual woman who considers herself plain is pampered as if she's a snowflake by everyone tip-toeing around the subject of pulchritude, the most likely outcome is that she will never experience the kind of man who thinks she's smoking hot telling her so, because he will likely have been cowed into suppressing his freedom to say what's on his mind in that regard out of not wanting to offend some completely other set of women than the one whom he thinks is hot but who thinks herself to be plain.
 
I am looking at this from a different lense from everyone else. I am waiting until marraige and have and continue to minister God to this lost and dieing world-a mininster at heart. I have seen and talked to so many ladies/men that have been hurt by the other gender. In so many of those conversations they say that conversation started based upon looks. Many where waiting until marraige like me. But they did not solidly found there relationship or conversation in God. I can not based upon my life experiences in my past, the stories in the bible such david- looking a lady and thinking she is hot-in this case a married women resulted in a bad turn out for him. Solmonon the wises man ever had many wives. He fell away because he did not marry Godly ladies- what do you think caused him to do that. Samsung had his strength taken because of a beauty of a lady. I apprecaite everyones opnion but based on everything and discernment of the Holy Spirit. Going back to the original post that started this thread- is it biblical to say a lady is super hot I am staying with in my opnion saying no and going to the point of saying it opens to many avenues of problems. If a relationship is not grounded in God. It leaves to much room for bad to happen in my opnion.

Late to the party on this interesting thread, still playing catch-up.

I wanted to point out that we shouldn't juxtapose the physical and the spiritual. It's a both and thing. Looks, chemistry, virtue...they all matter. God created in us the desire and appreciation for beauty. And for an important reason: the things we find attractive have been shown to be indications of genetic and biological fitness. And with time you can see virtue, or the lack thereof, affect the physical as well.
 
I agree with you Steve and the thing is as we muture and life and experience takes its toll, one starts to see the beauty of a woman from the inside and we start to realize there are some really beautiful women out there that the world may say otherwise but in reality if we as men would stop looking to the world to satisfy our desires we could see that beauty and end up being happier in the long run. A 'hot' woman according to the world, 9 times out of 10 is not so hot on the inside. Young men would do well to let go of the worlds ideas of beauty when it comes to these things
Or as Terry Pratchett put it in one of his many novels, you should choose a wife based on her cooking ability, not her looks. Because looks will only deteriorate, while cooking will only get better. :)
 
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