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Amish Bible Conflicts

My hubby's niece married a mennonite man. He was young but very mature for his age. Now they have five boys and another baby due.
Living simple is good. Making it a religion is another matter.
 
They are but there not that different. Our Mennonite friends were telling me that the Amish are actually an offshoot of the Mennonites. Their history was pretty fascinating from what they were saying. They fled Germany way back in the day because Germany wanted to conscript their children into the military so they fled to Russia from what I could catch and then from there to the Americas.

Mennonites, Amish, Hutterites, German Baptist, Dunkards, Schwarzenau, Brethren are amoung the major groups that all descended from the Anabaptist movement in Europe. Like any group which desires to follow the Bible, and lacks a strong human hierarchy to enforce one way they are prone to legalism and numerous splits. I wouldn't call the Mennonites the source group, but they are probably the largest. Although the Amish may well eclipse them in numbers.

There is a very large diversity of practice amoung the Anabaptists. Some are very distinctive and in many ways operate a lot like the early church and some have a lot of high church influence.

Basically they are the adult baptizers from continental Europe. The other American groups who baptize adults mostly come from Great Britain (usually England or Scottland). Unlike the English groups, the Anabaptists tended to keep more to the old traditions (excluding the more liberal Mennonites); why, I am not entirely certain of.

Here's thd thing, the Amish are growing. No other group in western Christianity can say that. They have somehow convinced everyone to leave them alone. They're doing something right.

That they are, we can learn a lot from them. A lot of that success comes down to large families, being separate from the world, rejecting divorce, and being willing to excommunicate members who digress from their standards. In contrast, even amoung American churches that teach no divorce, they are quick to make excuses for any women who nevertheless chooses to do so and believe any wild tale she spins.

Unfortunately their separateness plus the quiet of the land approach to avoiding persecution means they have entirely given up on evangelism.

I suppose given their strong top down church authority, which is exclusively male, they have kept the women in check. Something the American church failed to do.

In a way you could look at them like a modern tribe, but one where tribal government and religion merged. That would go a long way in explaining how they have managed to withstand being subsumed into the consumerism beast, something almost no other tribe the world over has managed to do; despite being right in the belly of the beast.
 
That verse in Timothy where Paul is admonishing Timothy to continue in the traditions he was taught is now used as a club to keep you inside the church standards. 3 1/4 inch brim on your hat instead of a 3 inch. A 1.75 inch sash instead of 2 inch for the woman.etc. trivial material things splitting churches apart.

That's not necessarily a misuse of the verse in general, but such nitpicking is. You are right, they've missed the heart of the matter. I'm sad to say almost all Christian churches do this in one manner or another; unless they just don't care; which is a whole other problem.

Do you have an idea how they descended into such nitpicking?

Ask most amish women why they wear a head covering and most won't know why. Or there only answer might be, because the Bible tells us to.

There is a similar state of things amoung other Anabaptist groups. But at least they do it, as they should. There is a blessing in that. Our women have rejected it in rebellion against God. Their women lack vision, ours lack obedience.

Rejecting divorce. But living with pain and tension and broken homes. A minority yet still reality. Again very little concept on the why.

That is far better than having divorce, which has led us to the utter destruction of marriage. We can't even replace ourselves, our women rule, and our society will utterly fall apart and be conquered whereas the Amish will continue to increase.

It is too bad they have come to abuse and misuse things like excommunication and separateness. They are nevertheless true concepts.

I would say the biggest conflict is the path to salvation. Joining the church is a matter of sitting under catechism for 8 sundays, being approved by vote of the members and making a verbal commitment then baptized. They mention the new birth but few knows what that entails.That's why it's important to obey your parents and the church.
I believe in a Living Hope. I have this memory of when I was baptized. I was asked whether I would promise to uphold, support and work within the church for the rest of my life. Somehow the way they worded it in German I got the implication they were referring to the Amish church. So here I was kneeling on a concrete floor in front of the whole church, my mind spinning a thousand miles an hour. I digested the question, dissected it in my mind, wondered if they were actually arrogant enough to actually mean the amish church, decided they had to mean The Church and answered with a yes. I still have this clear memory of the whole proceeding. I answered with a clear conscience. Yet years later after I left the amish my grandpa approached me about having left his grieviance being that I broke my promise that I made on my bended knee. So I explained what I settled in my heart that day. He didn't know what to say. He was a bishop since he was 27 years old. I often wondered if he was born again. At his death one of my cousins asked me if I thot he went to heaven. I said I don't know. I believe he did the best he knew how. Offended my cousins as he was highly revered. Considered a pillar in the amish church. Yet I also know he excommunicated Holy Spirit filled believers because they chose to join other Spirit filled fellowship. Their sin was leaving the amish faith. So I wonder how the Holy Spirit can cast the spirit of one of His Own over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh.

I'm pretty sure they meant the Amish church and not The Church. It is not that uncommon for groups like that to convince themselves that only their group is the true church of God and that membership in the visible human community is one and the same with membership in the spiritual one. Other Anabaptist and even some Protestant groups have had this problem as well. "If you're not part of our One True Church you can't go to heaven." Catholics have this problem to some extent as well.

I'm sad to say most evangelical Christians don't get the path to salvation much more right than the Amish do. You'd think the evangelicals with the emphasis on Bible study would do better but no, they have their own traditions that hold sway.

Most teach you can only hope to get into heaven.

That's a common problem amoung more legalistic groups; they lack a concept of assurance of salvation. This the opposite ditch to licentiousness.
 

I don't get this. They don't say what it is about Amish teaching that means those people will die without "hearing the Good News of salvation". What is it the Amish lack in their teachings?

They talk about getting them Social Security cards, teaching them to drive, teaching them how to get a job and learning a new culture; as if salvation meant changing their culture and signing them up for the Mark. We don't have to change someone's culture to teach them the Good News to salvation. Driving a buggy, speaking PennDutch, and running a farm won't send you to hell. It sounds like more about fixing their culture/technology than spreading the Good News.

I'm not saying the Amish don't have problems, but I can't tell that this group isn't just preaching the Gospel of easybelievism and consumerism.
 
There is a similar state of things amoung other Anabaptist groups. But at least they do it, as they should. There is a blessing in that. Our women have rejected it (head coverings) in rebellion against God. Their women lack vision, ours lack obedience.
Aahh, but not always.
My hubby does not want me to wear a head covering, just to walk in submission to him AS my covering. So for me TO cover would be to leave the protection of his covering and to rebel against my head.

Women cannot deal in biblical absolutes, we live as the law is understood by our man. :-)
 
Aahh, but not always.
My hubby does not want me to wear a head covering, just to walk in submission to him AS my covering. So for me TO cover would be to leave the protection of his covering and to rebel against my head.

Women cannot deal in biblical absolutes, we live as the law is understood by our man. :)
Sounds a lot like me. Thats exactly what I’ve told my @Well loved wife.
 
Aahh, but not always.
My hubby does not want me to wear a head covering, just to walk in submission to him AS my covering. So for me TO cover would be to leave the protection of his covering and to rebel against my head.

Women cannot deal in biblical absolutes, we live as the law is understood by our man. :)
You get this issue so completely it almost brings tears to my eyes.
 
I don't get this. They don't say what it is about Amish teaching that means those people will die without "hearing the Good News of salvation". What is it the Amish lack in their teachings?

They talk about getting them Social Security cards, teaching them to drive, teaching them how to get a job and learning a new culture; as if salvation meant changing their culture and signing them up for the Mark. We don't have to change someone's culture to teach them the Good News to salvation. Driving a buggy, speaking PennDutch, and running a farm won't send you to hell. It sounds like more about fixing their culture/technology than spreading the Good News.

I'm not saying the Amish don't have problems, but I can't tell that this group isn't just preaching the Gospel of easybelievism and consumerism.
Joe Keim and his wife left the amish years ago, were taken under the wing of a Baptist Church couple. They joined the church which now understands and backs Joe's vision.
The conservative Amish are so excluded that it takes real guts to step outside of it's shelter. Yet many young people seeking to fill a void or seeking to escape a repressive to abusive home situation are daring to do just that. Sadly most end up seeking a solution thru sex,drugs, alcohol. MAP ministry is seeking to provide a safe haven and a nudge in the right direction. While I disagree with some of the theology Joe has submitted too I appreciate his heart.

MAP has a slide presentation I have used to explain our background at a couple of churches. Its fairly in depth but don't know if I could upload a file of that size here.
As most are pry aware there are a few different tv shows about the amish. Most are 95% fiction. Yet several years ago a series called Amish out of Order was produced. Focused on people who left the amish and their perspective. This is the most realistic depiction of the struggles involved with leaving. I grew up with one of the boys on the set, Cephas Yoder. He was killed halfway through the show in a car accident.
There is a real lack of salvation teaching among the amish. An untapped mission field ripe for the next cult or whoever shows them they are needed and loved.

There's a reason why I have said, Having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof. Yet you also have to understand that each Amish church is an island until themselves. The standards and codes they live under is one they came up with and does not apply universaly.
 
Aahh, but not always.
My hubby does not want me to wear a head covering, just to walk in submission to him AS my covering. So for me TO cover would be to leave the protection of his covering and to rebel against my head.

Women cannot deal in biblical absolutes, we live as the law is understood by our man. :)

You get this issue so completely it almost brings tears to my eyes.

Agreed. Spot on imo
 
Aahh, but not always.
My hubby does not want me to wear a head covering, just to walk in submission to him AS my covering. So for me TO cover would be to leave the protection of his covering and to rebel against my head.

Women cannot deal in biblical absolutes, we live as the law is understood by our man. :)

Can't agree with that take on headcoverings but you should follow your man.
 
I have watched them. I like them a lot. He actually commented on one of my videos once. It was quite the thrill.
Lol that's cool. I watch them quite a bit. What you had said just reminded me of Doug... that is why i brought it up.

Sorry about your name being misspelled. Auto correct! SMH

Will you and Mariah be at the retreat this year?
 
Lol that's cool. I watch them quite a bit. What you had said just reminded me of Doug... that is why i brought it up.

Sorry about your name being misspelled. Auto correct! SMH

Will you and Mariah be at the retreat this year?
No, as much as we would like to it's not going to be possible this year unfortunately. Next year in Jerusalem though.
 
What does that even mean? What aspect of the Gospel isn't being taught by the Amish?
I can't speak for them, but I think what @yoderfamily is trying to convey is that the Amish way of thinking places trust, faith and devotion in the group/church above absolute trust, faith and devotion to the Savior as their error. Dedication to a lifestyle and a group is secondary. The Amish have it as primary.
 
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