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Meat Am I the only one who sees the irony here?

Possibly relevant: Sirach chapter 38

Sickness and Medicine
38 Give doctors the honor they deserve, for the Lord gave them their work to do.2 Their skill came from the Most High, and kings reward them for it. 3 Their knowledge gives them a position of importance, and powerful people hold them in high regard.

4 The Lord created medicines from the earth, and a sensible person will not hesitate to use them. 5 Didn't a tree once make bitter water fit to drink, so that the Lord's power might be known? 6 He gave medical knowledge to human beings, so that we would praise him for the miracles he performs. 7-8 The druggist mixes these medicines, and the doctor will use them to cure diseases and ease pain. There is no end to the activities of the Lord, who gives health to the people of the world.

9 My child, when you get sick, don't ignore it. Pray to the Lord, and he will make you well.10 Confess all your sins and determine that in the future you will live a righteous life.11 Offer incense and a grain offering, as fine as you can afford. 12 Then call the doctor—for the Lord created him—and keep him at your side; you need him. 13 There are times when you have to depend on his skill. 14 The doctor's prayer is that the Lord will make him able to ease his patients' pain and make them well again. 15 As for the person who sins against his Creator, he deserves to be sick.
 
Slumberfreeze said:
Possibly relevant: Sirach chapter 38
Confess all your sins and determine that in the future you will live a righteous life.11 Offer incense and a grain offering, as fine as you can afford. 12 Then call the doctor—for the Lord created him—and keep him at your side; you need him.
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That reminds me of the verse in James 5:16 where it says, "Confess your sins to each other, and pray for each other, so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective."
One interesting thing to note (that I just realized, and I've quoted this numerous times [it's actually my desktop screen on my computer]), it says the prayer of a "righteous person is powerful and effective." So before someone lays hands on me, I'd want to make sure it is not only an elder, but also one who is spiritually right[eous] before our King. Does that mean one who is unrighteous or not in good standing with God, their prayer is not heard, or worse? Proverbs 28:9 He who turns away his ear from listening to the law, Even his prayer is an abomination.
 
Slumberfreeze said:
Pray to the Lord, and he will make you well.10 Confess all your sins and determine that in the future you will live a righteous life.11 Offer incense and a grain offering, as fine as you can afford. 12 Then call the doctor—for the Lord created him—and keep him at your side; you need him.
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Notice the order: repent and appeal to God, and only after that call the doctor. Most people get this backwards.

This provides a template for one of my longstanding questions about the dichotomy between depending on God or on human effort. The answer is as I surmised: both. But this makes clear something I hadn't noticed before: the order matters. And effectual human effort is the result of God given gifts.
 
rockfox said:
I'm more concerned about the Christian who won't pray for healing but asks God to help the doctor do a good job than I am about fake healing teams. There have always been charlatans fleecing the flock; we were warned of that in the scriptures. But Christians putting more faith in doctors than God to heal is quite concerning. Too many have made modern medicine an idol.
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The guy who wrote "Confessions of a medical heretic" called it "the church of modern medicine." Since a religion is a way of life (according to usa supreme court) those who put ultimate faith in doctors and drugs are followers of another "way" then those who acknowledge YHWH as supreme and over all.
I grew up realizing the difference as my dad's family and my mom's represented both sides. One side was mainstream medical all the way = doctors know best. The other side used herbs and nutrition to support health = faith in divine design and supporting proactive decision making by individuals informed about their own health care.

These are sadly NOT compatible. People who are irresponsible and fearful will always want to control those who's beliefs make them uncomfortable.

P.S. Those who want to make their own decisions about health don't mind others choosing doctors and medications. We only mind them taking our freedom to choose. Like the lady hubby just spoke with in the store complaining because someone who was too close to her in the store. She has an underlying condition and did not appreciate hubby suggesting she should stay home and have someone else shop for her. But if HER health is someone else's responsibility.....someone else should be able to tell her what to eat....or not eat. Slippery slope to totalitarian dictatorships. Freedom is live and let live.....and care about others sincerely. Those in poly ticks do not care. Sociopaths all.
 
Joleneakamama said:
The guy who wrote "Confessions of a medical heretic" called it "the church of modern medicine." Since a religion is a way of life (according to usa supreme court) those who put ultimate faith in doctors and drugs are followers of another "way" then those who acknowledge YHWH as supreme and over all.
I grew up realizing the difference as my dad's family and my mom's represented both sides. One side was mainstream medical all the way = doctors know best. The other side used herbs and nutrition to support health = faith in divine design and supporting proactive decision making by individuals informed about their own health care.

These are sadly NOT compatible. People who are irresponsible and fearful will always want to control those who's beliefs make them uncomfortable.

P.S. Those who want to make their own decisions about health don't mind others choosing doctors and medications. We only mind them taking our freedom to choose. Like the lady hubby just spoke with in the store complaining because someone who was too close to her in the store. She has an underlying condition and did not appreciate hubby suggesting she should stay home and have someone else shop for her. But if HER health is someone else's responsibility.....someone else should be able to tell her what to eat....or not eat. Slippery slope to totalitarian dictatorships. Freedom is live and let live.....and care about others sincerely. Those in poly ticks do not care. Sociopaths all.
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I have noticed that many people who come to natural medicine only do so after 'their faith in conventional medicine is shaken'. Using religious language is the only good way to explain and illustrate the change. For some, it's only after they're near death and conventional medicine has failed them. The luckier ones break faith sooner, before the damage is too far along. The secular description is 'paradigm shift', which is the same thing as what the religious call 'worldview'. Modern medicine really is a religion in many ways. That which they put their faith in for life.
 
rockfox said:
Modern medicine really is a religion in many ways. That which they put their faith in for life.
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The other aspect is insurance. :cool:
People act like insurance is a matter of life and death! :eek:
Insurance is what ensures they are not prevented from "life saving" treatments and drugs. :rolleyes:
I suspect given a "scrip" often leads to another one....or one HUNDRED one.. (ok maybe just 23 or so) their deaths are hastened by the system they support.
 
GunnarR said:
Or they come to recognize that this is a broken system, and we aren't going anywhere but in circles with symptom management...
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Because the allopathic medical model is disinterested in and even in many cases antagonistic to being healthy. They manage the space in-between 'sick' and 'just-barely-not-sick;' to encourage personal management of ongoing physical well-being would risk putting them out of business.
 
Keith Martin said:
Because the allopathic medical model is disinterested in and even in many cases antagonistic to being healthy. They manage the space in-between 'sick' and 'just-barely-not-sick;' to encourage personal management of ongoing physical well-being would risk putting them out of business.
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Exactly. Because a patient cured is a customer lost... Saddens my heart that this has come to this.

Joleneakamama said:
The other aspect is insurance. :cool:
People act like insurance is a matter of life and death! :eek:
Insurance is what ensures they are not prevented from "life saving" treatments and drugs. :rolleyes:
I suspect given a "scrip" often leads to another one....or one HUNDRED one.. (ok maybe just 23 or so) their deaths are hastened by the system they support.
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I have always not been fond of insurance. In some cases it is nice. However, 99.999999% of the time, it doesn't cover natural treatments. Also, it gives an algorithm and providers have to follow that in order for the patient to be covered. If providers step outside that algorithm, they need to document in detail why they did that, so insurance might be able to cover the care given.
Regarding medications, there are some that can be helpful, but only for short-term. Things like blood pressure medications are nice if a patient has a 210/120 blood pressure (I have seen pressures that high) because you don't want them to develop a stroke, or damage important organs (ie eyes, kidneys, heart). However, once you get the blood pressure down, you can wean them off that while increasing natural substances or interventions.
However, what saddens me is that the majority of patients who go on medications, stay on medications. I took care of a patient one time and counted their medications out as I was giving them. They had over 20 medications in the medication cup I was giving them! In my head, I'm listing the side effects, and what they treat, and I'm thinking, "this medication is treating the side effects of this, and this medication is treating the side effect of this, and so on. Basically an endless loop. That's one of the many reasons why I'm working my way up the chain of command, because things are not working and patients need treatment of root-cause, not just symptoms. In the words of Joel Salatin, "Folks, this ain't normal."
 
Keith Martin said:
Because the allopathic medical model is disinterested in and even in many cases antagonistic to being healthy. They manage the space in-between 'sick' and 'just-barely-not-sick;' to encourage personal management of ongoing physical well-being would risk putting them out of business.
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A man named Frank Lampley wrote "The average MD has fewer then 500 patients that account for 90% of his income. If he "cured" 2 people a day, he would be out of business in less then a year." He liked to explain that prescription drugs cause side effects that the dr can then write another scrip for, and so a cycle is created.

In the orient long ago physicians were paid for the days you were well, not the days you were sick. Nowadays people have lost all common sense and cannot see the conflicts of interest in the medical or political realms.

The uploaded file is even more obviously true now then when it was written. Society changes and like slow boiled frogs people adjust to the new norm. This is a glimpse of how it looked to this man then.

Edited to add the file.
 

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GunnarR said:
Regarding medications, there are some that can be helpful, but only for short-term. Things like blood pressure medications are nice if a patient has a 210/120 blood pressure (I have seen pressures that high) because you don't want them to develop a stroke, or damage important organs (ie eyes, kidneys, heart). However, once you get the blood pressure down, you can wean them off that while increasing natural substances or interventions.
However, what saddens me is that the majority of patients who go on medications, stay on medications. I took care of a patient one time and counted their medications out as I was giving them. They had over 20 medications in the medication cup I was giving them! In my head, I'm listing the side effects, and what they treat, and I'm thinking, "this medication is treating the side effects of this, and this medication is treating the side effect of this, and so on. Basically an endless loop. That's one of the many reasons why I'm working my way up the chain of command, because things are not working and patients need treatment of root-cause, not just symptoms. In the words of Joel Salatin, "Folks, this ain't normal."
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Can confirm. I've lost count of the people who got better from all their ailments when they went cold turkey on dugs. I call it the drug cascade: you start with one, which begets a need for a second, then a third, and so on until they finally kill you. This is what kills most elderly, not old age or natural causes. Most of these 'diseases of old age' are just side effects to medicines and bad diets.

GunnarR said:
I have always not been fond of insurance. In some cases it is nice. However, 99.999999% of the time, it doesn't cover natural treatments.
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My feelings. A more expensive and worthless thing there never was. Pre-Obamacare, most people who file bankruptsy due to medical bills had insurance. Post Obamacare, insurance expense is way out of wack for it's usefullness. Won't cover natural treatments, treatments which eliminate the illnesses and need for the things it does cover.
 
Slumberfreeze said:
However, I'd be interested to know the numbers of assemblies mobilizing their elders to pray over them and anoint the sick with oil....
Orders is orders after all.
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Its not only elders. Mostly women and children.

The Bethel church has a school of prophecy and healing lead by a woman who is a Christian Wiccan. They're Heretics.
 
A lot of Witches are associated with the Unitarian Universalists, who are an offshoot of Christianity. And some will present a very middle class conservative traditional look. Probably witches amoung the Methodists too. And that's just the above board groups. Many lie hidden in other Protestant groups.
 
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