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Meat Am I the only one who sees the irony here?

A

Asforme&myhouse

Seasoned Member
Real Person
Male
https://www.bethel.com/press/coronavirus/

If this church has a “dead raising team” and various other “healing teams” why would they need to cancel any functions? To me it seems fraudulent to take people’s money under the pretense of teaching them how to walk in supernatural power, which includes healing, and then run and hide when a pandemic rolls around.

http://bjm.org/qa/is-it-always-gods-will-to-heal-someone/

According to Bethel church it is always God’s will to heal. Why are they letting doctors and nurses be the front line of defense against coronavirus when they clearly have the power to heal? Seems they are being cowardly, either that or they are fakes.
 
Irony is indeed detected.

On a less spectacular note, one of the criticisms of the goats in the parable was "I was sick and you visited me not". I'm chewing over this verse when thinking about the covid thing.
I have no strong opinions about 'healing teams'. If they think they bad, who am I to stop them?
However, I'd be interested to know the numbers of assemblies mobilizing their elders to pray over them and anoint the sick with oil....
Orders is orders after all.
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
Why are they letting doctors and nurses be the front line of defense against coronavirus when they clearly have the power to heal? Seems they are being cowardly, either that or they are fakes.
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You win for best belly laugh of the day, @Asforme&myhouse!

This reminded me of living (1976-1978) in Carrollton GA, across the street from some kind of holiness church whose name wasn't but should have been First Church of the Snake Handlers. They also believed they could heal people of all manner of illnesses, but I'd regularly see them at doctor's offices. I got to know some of them, mostly through negative interchanges related to my stereo (which, in my defense, I really had to crank up during their Saturday evening, Sunday morning, Sunday afternoon, Wednesday night and Friday evening services, just to drown out the sound of all the screaming that went on from the people being bitten by snakes), and their belief was that one's healing powers were only fully manifest once one either stopped being bitten by handled snakes or stopped feeling pain in response to bites.

Each time I'd go back to Carrollton to visit friends, I'd notice that the First Church of the Snake Handlers had fewer and fewer attendees. Eventually, they closed down shop and sold the building to the Boy Scouts of America, where probably a different category of biting began to rear its ugly head.
 
Slumberfreeze said:
However, I'd be interested to know the numbers of assemblies mobilizing their elders to pray over them and anoint the sick with oil....
Orders is orders after all.
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This.
 
rockfox said:
This.
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Elders in churches across this country and around the world visit and pray for the sick on a daily bases... they just don’t go around flexing their muscles about it. My point is, if you go around talking a big game and then run and hide when you have the chance to do exactly what you claim to be able to do, somebody should call you on your Bovine Scattology.
 
Many people think that healing is something that is either true or false. That if you have the gift, you can heal wholesale.
If it worked that way, then one person with the gift could heal everyone on the planet in one swell foop.

But it doesn’t work that way, remember the two disciples that couldn’t cast out a spirit and Yeshua told them that it took prayer and fasting for that kind.
Authority isn’t universal, know your limitations.
 
steve said:
Many people think that healing is something that is either true or false. That if you have the gift, you can heal wholesale.
If it worked that way, then one person with the gift could heal everyone on the planet in one swell foop.

But it doesn’t work that way, remember the two disciples that couldn’t cast out a spirit and Yeshua told them that it took prayer and fasting for that kind.
Authority isn’t universal, know your limitations.
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Bill Johnson said “I refuse to create a theology that allows for sickness”. Then Bethel church canceled services due to coronavirus... not sure how you can reconcile that.
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
Bill Johnson said “I refuse to create a theology that allows for sickness”. Then Bethel church canceled services due to coronavirus... not sure how you can reconcile that.
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That’s between him and the Big Boss.
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
Elders in churches across this country and around the world visit and pray for the sick on a daily bases... they just don’t go around flexing their muscles about it. My point is, if you go around talking a big game and then run and hide when you have the chance to do exactly what you claim to be able to do, somebody should call you on your Bovine Scattology.
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True, but how many anoint with oil? Not common in a lot of circles. Frowned on even.
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
You’re guys are really splitting hairs here and ignoring the 500 pound gorilla in the room.
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I'm more concerned about the Christian who won't pray for healing but asks God to help the doctor do a good job than I am about fake healing teams. There have always been charlatans fleecing the flock; we were warned of that in the scriptures. But Christians putting more faith in doctors than God to heal is quite concerning. Too many have made modern medicine an idol.
 
rockfox said:
I'm more concerned about the Christian who won't pray for healing but asks God to help the doctor do a good job than I am about fake healing teams. There have always been charlatans fleecing the flock; we were warned of that in the scriptures. But Christians putting more faith in doctors than God to heal is quite concerning. Too many have made modern medicine an idol.
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Well said.
 
rockfox said:
I'm more concerned about the Christian who won't pray for healing but asks God to help the doctor do a good job than I am about fake healing teams. There have always been charlatans fleecing the flock; we were warned of that in the scriptures. But Christians putting more faith in doctors than God to heal is quite concerning. Too many have made modern medicine an idol.
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Where are you meeting your “christians”? They sound like a bunch of straw men being used to prop up your disagreement with my statement. Bethel isn’t some inconsequential hole in the wall group, they’re trendsetters in the church world. They train thousands of students and send them all over the country and the world spreading false teaching to thousands of churches.
 
@Asforme&myhouse I speak from direct experience of hearing many many such public prayers; from both lay men and professional pastors. This isn't some argument I created from thin air to pick a fight with you. It's a pre-existing, longstanding concern of mine from observing behavior of Christians in many different contexts. It's a problem I observed going back decades, long before I ever heard of Christian Polygamy.

Do your elders anoint the sick and specifically pray for them to be healed by God?
 
rockfox said:
Do your elders anoint the sick and specifically pray for them to be healed by God?
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Yes, and I have seen the results that border on the dead being raised. My wife is one example. She was in ICU, organs shutting down and doctors had given up. (They basically told me to plan a funeral.) Elders and I went in, prayed, anointed with oil and within two hours the Dr.s saw a turn around, within two days she was out of ICU and in a week she was sent home. Weak, long recovery, but living.

You are correct, @rockfox (and everyone else here), we do have authority in the name of Jesus/Yeshua, but must claim it by faith and walk it out!
 
It is my opinion that it's kind of mocking to walk into a fire and expect not to get burned. Yes healing is possible, but it is God and faith who do that, and it has to align with His plans...
 
PeteR said:
Yes, and I have seen the results that border on the dead being raised.
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Which is entirely expected because...

And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
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It wasn't just Christ who did this, but Peter also who raised the dead. He didn't do in every case, but he did in at least one. It is within our grasp. Though I don't pretend to understand the whens and whys of it.
 
Working in medicine, I find a balance between the two. I like the thought process of Dr. David Levy who is a neurosurgeon and a Christian. He asks his patients if he could pray before starting the consultation, inviting God into the appointment time. He is an extremely successful surgeon (one of the top neurosurgeons in the world!), doing some very dangerous surgeries, yet with very low complications. If I remember the interview that I listened to correctly, he prays before starting the surgery inviting God to guide his hands and provide a good outcome for his patients. I do agree that we need to be more proactive in prayer (and that should be our first intervention, no question in my mind) and anointing the sick, but we also understand that God places people (whether believer or unbeliever) in positions to help heal the sick with the tools that HE has given us. After all, when the surgery is over, or the herb treats the illness, or whatever circumstance, people generally thank and praise God first, and then thank the surgeon, or naturopath, or herbalist, or person who recommended the herbal remedy.

Medicine (whether holistic or allopathic) generally shortens the hand of God and limits His true potential. I really DO believe that God can and will act in mighty ways if we invite Him and allow room for Him to act. I've found in my schooling and clinicals that there have been several times when I have been stuck or can't find the answer, so I pray and ask for wisdom to better help the patient, and almost immediately after asking, I get the answer, or some key piece that I hadn't thought about.
I know I've derailed from the main topic for a brief second, but I just wanted to point out that God is very fluid and cannot be contained, neither by medicine or by our own opinions of Him. He can work through any circumstance whether through prayer and anointing or through the surgery. (Hey, why not both??)

Recently, we had to take my brother to the ER due to an accident. There at the ER, there was a wonderful chaplain that came and prayed with us. It was really beautiful to see medicine mold with our relationship with Yah. That's one reason why holistic medicine is becoming so popular. We are beginning to recognize that biological, psychological, social, and spiritual all interact with each other in a beautiful fluid manner.
 
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