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A Ministry Opportunity

Also, I know this is a can of worms here from reading other threads, so lets go easy on each other. I'm also open to messages in my inbox if that might be a better place. At this point, I'll call myself a "saved-by-faith-and-want-to-keep-the-Torah-but-can't-ultimately" super-clinger to the Messiah type of believer. My 6 year old kid wants to know how to fly a rocket into space. How many details should I give him? lol
 
I've been following this debate - by the way y'all all got a new follower on youtube now - gotta learn from the brotherhood and gleam insights.

So seeing how much David butchered the polygyny debate, I decided to watch this video as well:

Without asking anyone to invest too much time - I'm curious if people on here would side with him or Tony in this debate. Also curious as to whether anyone would think David represented the 'Keep Torah' side with more intellectual honesty and rightful attitude towards scripture and his anti-polygyny stances? In other words, is this guy a mixed bag? Can we really be blind in one eye and see completely well in the other?
@PeteR and I recently had the opportunity to talk to David separately. He told me that he’s “Messianic”. A number of our members identify so. But it’s a broad category that contains those who are dedicated Torah keepers all the way to unreformed Protestants who like the colors blue and white and not much else. David seems to fall more towards the blue and white side of things although he does keep the feasts to some degree and eat clean and I assume keep Sabbath.

All of his influences though are liberal, mainstream Protestants. He has expressed a thinly veiled contempt for Torah and expressly said it is hybridized document representing a starting point for ultimately bringing people in line with the “creation ideal”.

This begs the question why on Earth does he keep Torah to any extent? It wasn’t articulated at Creation and so is not a part of the alleged “creation ideal”. Claiming that Torah is an imperfect starting place, instead of a critical piece of a whole, is the exact claim that modern Christians use to condemn Torah keeping.

Ultimately Wilber is just a very contradictory, aspiring celebrity preacher and we can’t expect any consistency out of him or much sincerity from him.
 
He hasn't allowed any comments in about 40 hours.... he may, but guessing he has significant negative reaction. If so and comments are blocked or disallowed, it is another evidence of his deceptive practices...

In my entire rebuttal series I only deleted two comments so far. Both were spam or inappropriate content...
 
I've been following this debate - by the way y'all all got a new follower on youtube now - gotta learn from the brotherhood and gleam insights.

So seeing how much David butchered the polygyny debate, I decided to watch this video as well:

Without asking anyone to invest too much time - I'm curious if people on here would side with him or Tony in this debate. Also curious as to whether anyone would think David represented the 'Keep Torah' side with more intellectual honesty and rightful attitude towards scripture and his anti-polygyny stances? In other words, is this guy a mixed bag? Can we really be blind in one eye and see completely well in the other?
As one who prefers to avoid the TK v NTK debate, I don't really have a dog in this hunt, but I will say this, on top of what I've already said about Mr. Ed, and I wish I'd already articulated it: he's good at enunciating words, so he'd be much better at radio than at video. In other words, he speaks clearly, but he also has a style of speaking that is designed to brook no argument with him. Pay attention to the manner in which he pauses for breath -- usually other than at the end of sentences; clearly his style of debate -- and even the manner in which he reads a prepared statement -- reflects the approach he takes with people in person; it's his personality. This, and his general demeanor, are purposefully intended to prevent anyone else getting in a word edgewise and reflects a personality that doesn't just emerge when he's reading a prepared statement: this is a man who is so self-righteous that he assumes that only those who already entirely agree with him might have a valid point he hasn't already addressed. This is a man with the style of speaking typical of current progressivist leftists. There is no room for discussion with him or his ilk, and those who disagree are not only wrong, they are contemptible. He may wear a ball cap, but that's either an affectation or perhaps a way to hide baldness, because, in essence, he's an effete snob. Zec, I love watching you go off on this man, and I think you do actually get to the crux of the biscuit in that this has something to do with his manhood, but I seriously doubt you will ever get through to him on that channel. He's not going to care. Well, let me put it another way: it'll probably stick in his craw a bit, but it won't matter, because you aren't his target audience: what he does and says is intended to impress a whole 'nother set of people: mostly women, but predominantly sophisticated leftists and other snobbish fundamentalists. As I wrote above, it's a type of mental adultery that is one of the only avenues of seduction currently remaining for progressives to engage in without setting off alarm bells.

In any case, if I were a Torah Keeper/Hebrew Roots/Messianic person, I would be very wary of blessing this man as a laudable spokesperson for your movement. It will be tempting to bifurcate such a person and say, "Oh, he's just wrong about A and B, but overall he's a tremendous voice for our era on C and D." Mr. Ed would mop the floor at just about any high school or college debate, but the problem is that he has a formula that would work no matter which stand he took. I don't trust such people. He floats back and forth between quoting Scripture and quoting like-minded authors, both without noting the differing levels of authority between the two and always quoting like-minded authors in a way that implies that no countervailing opinions worth noting even exist. Most authorities this, most authorities that. "There really is no debate about X." "There really is no debate about Y." I always want to gag when I hear someone say that or read it in print. If there were no debate, then why are you debating?

This is not someone I would want on my side.
 
As one who prefers to avoid the TK v NTK debate, I don't really have a dog in this hunt, but I will say this, on top of what I've already said about Mr. Ed, and I wish I'd already articulated it: he's good at enunciating words, so he'd be much better at radio than at video. In other words, he speaks clearly, but he also has a style of speaking that is designed to brook no argument with him. Pay attention to the manner in which he pauses for breath -- usually other than at the end of sentences; clearly his style of debate -- and even the manner in which he reads a prepared statement -- reflects the approach he takes with people in person; it's his personality. This, and his general demeanor, are purposefully intended to prevent anyone else getting in a word edgewise and reflects a personality that doesn't just emerge when he's reading a prepared statement: this is a man who is so self-righteous that he assumes that only those who already entirely agree with him might have a valid point he hasn't already addressed. This is a man with the style of speaking typical of current progressivist leftists. There is no room for discussion with him or his ilk, and those who disagree are not only wrong, they are contemptible. He may wear a ball cap, but that's either an affectation or perhaps a way to hide baldness, because, in essence, he's an effete snob. Zec, I love watching you go off on this man, and I think you do actually get to the crux of the biscuit in that this has something to do with his manhood, but I seriously doubt you will ever get through to him on that channel. He's not going to care. Well, let me put it another way: it'll probably stick in his craw a bit, but it won't matter, because you aren't his target audience: what he does and says is intended to impress a whole 'nother set of people: mostly women, but predominantly sophisticated leftists and other snobbish fundamentalists. As I wrote above, it's a type of mental adultery that is one of the only avenues of seduction currently remaining for progressives to engage in without setting off alarm bells.

In any case, if I were a Torah Keeper/Hebrew Roots/Messianic person, I would be very wary of blessing this man as a laudable spokesperson for your movement. It will be tempting to bifurcate such a person and say, "Oh, he's just wrong about A and B, but overall he's a tremendous voice for our era on C and D." Mr. Ed would mop the floor at just about any high school or college debate, but the problem is that he has a formula that would work no matter which stand he took. I don't trust such people. He floats back and forth between quoting Scripture and quoting like-minded authors, both without noting the differing levels of authority between the two and always quoting like-minded authors in a way that implies that no countervailing opinions worth noting even exist. Most authorities this, most authorities that. "There really is no debate about X." "There really is no debate about Y." I always want to gag when I hear someone say that or read it in print. If there were no debate, then why are you debating?

This is not someone I would want on my side.
The mental adultery being the only type of seduction available for leftists is deeply insightful. I have to think on that.
 
Certainly, spiritual adultery is placing our worship on a false Elohim instead of YHVH... similar is *possible* in a relationship where a woman is drawn to a spiritual leader instead of following her own husband or head...
 
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