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501(c) status
- Thread starter MemeFan
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What was disingenuous? I said that was what I was doing. Anyone can do it. I didn’t innovate the technique. You’ll see quoted replies frequently with the phrase “Fixed if for ya.” That means the replier altered some section of the the message he was quoting to make a point.
You made a silly argument. Just because Christ didn’t do something doesn’t mean we can’t. He didn’t wear socks or ride in cars either or drink Coca-Cola. Or, as I pointed out, get married.
So your excuse for changing someone's question in an attempt to prove your point is to say "look, they did it"!
Amazing.
It seems in your quest to be right rather than righteous you lose sight of what manner of man you are or should be in Christ so I will explain it. I'm not going to change anything you have written but I will write slowly for you!
The commission for the Apostles was.
Matthew 28:18-20 ASV — And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth. Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.
It is evident now some approximately 2000 years later that there are no instructions from christ or his foundation Apostles that any one of his ministers were to place themselves under the Pontifex Maximus, or seek to get tax breaks of any form or voluntarily put themselves under the authority of another authority but his.
In fact he stated quite clearly the opposite.
Luke 20:24-25 ASV — Show me a denarius. Whose image and superscription hath it? And they said, Caesar’s. And he said unto them, Then render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.
With regards to this whole 501c debacle, when we look in the light of the words of the master he literally states pay Caesar whatever he is due, HOWEVER, by the very act of registering and getting tax breaks etc through the voluntary 501c structure (and similar structures across the earth) those who do so are literally going against the words of Christ by NOT paying Caesar, whilst at the same time claiming to be servants of Christ, although now they have entered into an agreement as to what they can and cannot do or say in areas that Christ may want them to speak into or go.
No matter how you cut or slice, registering makes no sense for disciples of MessiYah aka Christ
There is a pattern...
In the same way your argument re acts 15 made no sense. The four instructions of Acts 15 were taken straight from torah in leviticus and deuteronomy (it makes no sense to instruct from torah with a view to break torah) and the reason why the Apostles NEVER taught or instructed outside of torah was not just for the words of the lord that I quoted above but also this often ignored instruction.
Matthew 23:1-3 ASV — Then spake Jesus to the multitudes and to his disciples, saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat: all things therefore whatsoever they bid you, these do and observe: but do not ye after their works; for they say, and do not.
So it is clearly evident that there is an observable pattern, instead of obedience to MessiYAH/Christ, there is a consistent desire to do that which is completely opposite to his instructions, the real question is why?
See, there is no need to obfuscate a discussion we have been given all we need
2 Timothy 3:12-17 ASV — Yea, and all that would live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and impostors shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But abide thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; and that from a babe thou hast known the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness: that the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.
My excuse is that it was a legitimate rhetorical device that I was identified that I was using. You’re just mad because it was effective and you don’t have an answer. Things that aren’t forbidden to us are permitted to us. Your whole claim falls down after that. Tax exempt status isn’t forbidden so it is permitted. Whether or not it’s a good idea is a different question.
And Christ never commanded us to not get tax exempt status. Once again you destroy your own argument with your own proof texts.
This is patently false. Christ expressly enjoined cooperation with the government and the courts and Paul even made his famous appeal to Rome. Is this false idea of yours really so important that you have to do violence to scripture to support it? The very verses you quote,”render unto Caesar…” falsify this claim.
How? How do tax breaks put you under the authority of the government but paying taxes makes you free of the government? That’s ludicrous. That’s a legitimately dumb statement, especially since 501c3 status doesn’t give tax breaks to the church, it gives tax breaks to the people donating to the church. But yeah, pay your taxes you revel, that’ll show the oppressive bastards! To the barricades men and don’t claim any deductions !
Facepalm emoji, the tax exemption is Caesar declaring that he’s not owed those taxes. Caesar sets the tax rate and Caesar collects the taxes and Caesar declares the exemption. Caesar is saying that the taxes that would have been otherwise paid are in fact not his and he is declining to collect them. You’re not even trying.
This is false. It’s just straight up not true. There are no theological requirements attached to 591c3 status. Many, very conservative churches use it.
Now this argument you can make. This is a fair statement of your opinion. What you can’t do is create a command that “Thou shalt not register as a 501c3 corporation.” Because that would be adding to scripture and I know how much some of you claim to hate that
First person on this forum who on receiving lower taxes argues he should be forced to pay more.
First person on this forum who on receiving lower taxes argues he should be forced to pay more.
The 'lower taxes' thing is a trap because in return for lower taxes the conservative churches have to be silent about politics. Meanwhile the Democrat churches always seem to be able to say whatever they want and they often invite Democrat politicians to make campaign stops at their churches.
Giving up that tax-free status means you get to have your voice back.
Or just don't form a corporation. Meet in a home. Pool money together privately if funds are needed for anything. Don't have a sound system and lights, just put the lyrics on a TV and worship together.
None of what I said is a requirement. But it would sure make things simpler.
None of what I said is a requirement. But it would sure make things simpler.
There is a question that should be asked here:
And just Who's are WE?
I will add at here that IMHO He was making a larger point, arguably even stronger today. (Because a denarius was at the time MOSTLY an 'honest weight.')
Fiat 'money' (read the Constitution: a "dollar" is NOT 'money' any more!) is literally an "abomination" to Him. (Deuteronomy 25:13-19) He even goes so far as to immediately and directly compare it to Amalek. The fact that a dimensionless 'dollar' is anathema to the Constitution just emphasizes the issue. (It has NOT been a "weight" of silver since 1965.)
Luke 20 (et al) really makes clear that the "tar baby" of registration under Caesar AND using his fake not-money are ALL part of a Babylon/Egyptian/Roman/DeepState system that we are to "come out of."
And, no, He never said it would be easy. But it will get harder.
No need to. He gave us a brain, and a choice:
"Choose this day Whom you will serve."
So there’s no need to make a command so you can go ahead and make a command? That’s what you’re saying. You admit there’s no command against it but you still claim it’s forbidden….
So what kind of idiocy is that?
Quoting Scripture? Is THAT what you're wanting to whine about today?
And why don't you just let ME say what I'm saying?
GIVE IT A REST!!!!
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PS, folks: The reason why some of us get bent out of shape about censorship, and deliberate RANCOR being seeded in the Ghetto under the "Moderator" flag is crap like the above.
We are perfectly capable of saying what we say without Zec's twisting it, rephrasing it, talking it out of context, even lying about it, and, yes, deleting it if he doesn't like the concept.
I have made this point clearly, within the Ghetto and without. BF is not being well-served by a wannabe tyrant with an axe to grind having privileges to twist, limit, coerce, badger, and censor what goes on here.
Silence is consent, folks. Even if it's coerced.
We are perfectly capable of saying what we say without Zec's twisting it, rephrasing it, talking it out of context, even lying about it, and, yes, deleting it if he doesn't like the concept.
I have made this point clearly, within the Ghetto and without. BF is not being well-served by a wannabe tyrant with an axe to grind having privileges to twist, limit, coerce, badger, and censor what goes on here.
Silence is consent, folks. Even if it's coerced.
Because what you say doesn’t make sense. You don’t think through it. You just string words together because they sound good in your head. You say self contradictory things like admitting there’s no command against it, no one can add commands and then you add a command forbidding it.
And why shouldn’t you be questioned? Are you a prophet that your words are beyond question? Even prophets are subject to proofs. You are claiming a god-like status if you think your word should stand on its own as a self referential truth.
I’m not the one asking to not be questioned. I freely engage in debate and never once ask other men to protect me from it.
Says the agitator hiding behind a Moderator badge who just deletes and locks threads any time he gets embarrassed by being wrong, or worse. And then makes up "Temporary Rules" when he can't handle even the idea of "engaging in debate."
I have a decade and a half record of engagement on this site Mark. Anyone who thinks I’m afraid of debate simply hasn’t spent any time on the forum.
And you know this because I have beaten you every time we’ve ever locked horns, or at least locked my horns to your pointy forehead.
Why is all the vitriol acceptable behavior among God's Children? Men, please sheath your bloody swords. Seek to bind the wounds of your brother. In my own 13 years of being on here, I find this is guttural and unnecessary and damaging to the collective. I call upon MEN to be Godly in deed and word. Save your edge for the truly disgusting works of darkness. -M
Until things go wrong.
Corporations exist to protect personal wealth from the actions of the organization, and those people acting on behave of the organization.