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4/20 Pastor
- Thread starter ASyers41
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See Ezekiel 9:4-5, in context. I prefer the term He uses: "sighing and crying."
Scripture is supposed to have a place here.
Says the guy who has made a point - repeatedly - of being so PROUD that he never heard a SINGLE one that I posted, before making sure they weren't even allowed.
PS> And you're wrong, again. I did watch it. It made my point. So I'm WAY ahead of you on that score.
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The whole POINT of this thread (since Samuel won't see it) is somebody offended by celebrating Him with a joint.
I don't care for his ad, either.
But I cited a FAR more Scriptural reason, with references, for what He SPECIFICALLY SAYS He is offended by. The problem the moderators(s) have is hypocrisy. They seem to be more offended by YHVH and His Word, in specific, than they are the "division" over something secular like a joint.
Please note:
I was ANSWERING you very specific, direct question, Samuel:
And I did precisely that. You're welcome.
And the ENTIRE story of Ezekiel chapter 8 and 9, for those with "eyes to see" and knowledge of where 'cute traditions' like a 'sunrise service' facing east, and 40 days of "weeping for Tammuz" is a more detailed answer. And a warning.
From BYU: During the first few centuries of early Christianity, the term Easter did not yet exist. Early Christians referred to Easter simply as Pascha, the Greek term for the Hebrew word pesach, or passover. In Latin and Romance languages the word for Easter is still a derivation of the Hebrew word pesach. In the English and Germanic cultures, the earliest mention of the word Easter comes from the English historian Saint Bede the Venerable. Writing in the eighth century, Bede claimed the term Easter referred originally to a pagan holiday centered on the Anglo-Saxon goddess Eostre, celebrating both spring and fertility. He buttressed his account by citing a provocative letter from Pope Gregory I. In this letter the pontiff suggested that missionary work among the heathens would improve if pagan holidays were synchronized with Christian celebrations. These assertions lead to the widespread conclusion that the Christian holiday Easter had its origins in a pagan fertility rite.
BYU has no problem with the pragmatism of Pope Gregory I in incorporating the pagan with the Christian so they can be more effective. A careful analysis leads to various opinions.
The council of Nicea codified the calendar to include the creation of "Easter", a curious melding of pagan sexual fertility celebration with Resurrection.
Is sexual activity sinful? Is fertility sinful? To both I say it is a command of God to be fruitful BUT the way of Satan is to pollute the command to employ IDOLATRY. Run away from idolatry- Thou shalt make no graven image. Yah's opinion is found in Ez 8.
BYU has no problem with the pragmatism of Pope Gregory I in incorporating the pagan with the Christian so they can be more effective. A careful analysis leads to various opinions.
The council of Nicea codified the calendar to include the creation of "Easter", a curious melding of pagan sexual fertility celebration with Resurrection.
Is sexual activity sinful? Is fertility sinful? To both I say it is a command of God to be fruitful BUT the way of Satan is to pollute the command to employ IDOLATRY. Run away from idolatry- Thou shalt make no graven image. Yah's opinion is found in Ez 8.
According to the leftists it is.
We're really wandering into another general argument about Easter and well away from the video that began this.
Can someone please quote to me where the original pastor ever talks about celebrating Christ with a joint? I just don't get it.
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You accused me of not watching the video, Samuel. Did you?
I really don’t want to have to go back and watch again (remember, I don’t like gimmicky evangelism) but i don’t recall the Pastor smoking a joint. However, he was in a smoke filled vehicle.
But, that leads to a greater point that @Maddog referred to. Even if he was smoking a joint, would it be sinful? I can’t find a clear verse where it’s condemned.
I don’t smoke weed or cigarettes. I hardly drink any alcohol. But that’s because I don’t care to be taken from my rational mind and fitness.
Why have I dragged this in so long? It’s a link to POLYGYNY. Many outside folks in the Christian world say our beliefs are sinful, distasteful and downright abhorrent, yet never find a verse actually condemning it, or any outlawing of it. So, then it rests in the individual to engage, even if others find it offensive or distasteful. One thing they can’t do is find it biblically unlawful.
I can’t condemn my joint smoking brothers. I just choose to not join them, or engage in gimmicky evangelism. That’s my personal preference, not that it’s unbiblical.
The accusation levelled against him is that he is promoting smoking a joint to God, or words to that effect. In reality he says nothing of the sort, nor even hints it. On the contrary, he says if you WERE smoking (over Sat night / Sun morning), and now have the munchies, come to church and we'll feed you. If anything he's offering to help them sober up, and while they're doing it, hear about God. The smoke-filled car is a symbol of where someone was, before church, and through the video the smoke disappears - even the symbolism is of the smoke going away.
He's trying to reach people in a certain culture and turn them towards God. Whether his method is effective or not is another matter. It's not promoting anything bad even if marijuana was a sin.
And this really is so much like how people react to polygamy. You mentioned multiple wives so you must be abusive, condone adultery, be interested in little girls, be a Mormon or Muslim, a wife-beater... All sorts of slander, none of which actually follows from polygamy - but have sadly each been truly practiced in that context by someone in the past. There's a reason for the association - but it's still an unfair and slanderous association to make.
In the same way some pastors do condone drug use, so there's a reason for the association being made by people in this conversation also - yet it's still unfair and potentially slanderous to assume of this pastor.
People complain about being unfairly judged by others but can be equally quick to jump to similar assumptions about others on another issue.
He's trying to reach people in a certain culture and turn them towards God. Whether his method is effective or not is another matter. It's not promoting anything bad even if marijuana was a sin.
And this really is so much like how people react to polygamy. You mentioned multiple wives so you must be abusive, condone adultery, be interested in little girls, be a Mormon or Muslim, a wife-beater... All sorts of slander, none of which actually follows from polygamy - but have sadly each been truly practiced in that context by someone in the past. There's a reason for the association - but it's still an unfair and slanderous association to make.
In the same way some pastors do condone drug use, so there's a reason for the association being made by people in this conversation also - yet it's still unfair and potentially slanderous to assume of this pastor.
People complain about being unfairly judged by others but can be equally quick to jump to similar assumptions about others on another issue.
And the whole "420 thing" and the 'munchies' were pot references (not that I'm much of an expert on their rites)...
It's not. And I could care less. But adopting pagan practices that He so clearly condemned (to the point of death in Ezekiel chapter 9) absolutely is.
And whether some would prefer to ignore Him or not...the ONLY ones who LIVED were not even those who merely kept silent. It was those who "sigh and cry at the abominations" being done who were marked. Some might even have been accused of being dripping faucets or worse...
Oh, are we still doing the pagan thing? I thought we might have put that one to bed already.
When He does, I will. Meanwhile, the lesson of Ezekiel 8 and 9 remains a warning:
"YHVH said to him, “Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and cry over all the abominations that are done within it.”
To the others He said in my hearing, “Go after him through the city and kill; do not let your eye spare, nor have any pity.
Utterly slay old and young men, maidens and little children and women; but do not come near anyone on whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary.”
I’m going to say where my thing is with it. If you have to stoop so low as to dress in a track suit and chains, fill a car with weed smoke and promote hey we got breakfast so come hear about God while you were just getting high in your car is offensive to the Holy Spirit and he shouldn’t be advocating this as a means of evangelism. It is poor taste at best. The means you use to get people to church is how you have to keep them coming church. Church isnt supposed to be rock show to be entertained by.
So your objection is emotional, about appearances, but with no actual scripture you can point to that shows it's wrong. Your objection is on the same footing as an objection to polygamy, "it's not what a Christian should be advocating, it can be associated with abuse, it mightn't be specifically prohibited in scripture but it's still not how we should live".
There is truth in your objection, just as there is truth in the above objection to polygamy. Polygamy can go terribly wrong and ruin your life.
But we also know that you cannot condemn as sin that which just looks or feels wrong to you, without scripture. There is a time and a place for many things. And just as there are people for whom polygamy is God's way of blessing their lives, there may be people for whom this pastor's invitation is the very thing they need to get them started on a journey to God.
So we need to relax and be slow to condemn our brothers, particularly when they are working in a ministry to a sector of society we are not a part of.
There is truth in your objection, just as there is truth in the above objection to polygamy. Polygamy can go terribly wrong and ruin your life.
But we also know that you cannot condemn as sin that which just looks or feels wrong to you, without scripture. There is a time and a place for many things. And just as there are people for whom polygamy is God's way of blessing their lives, there may be people for whom this pastor's invitation is the very thing they need to get them started on a journey to God.
So we need to relax and be slow to condemn our brothers, particularly when they are working in a ministry to a sector of society we are not a part of.
Then you have to prove that scripture says that smoking dope is evil...