Who was Herod?

[Joleneakamama]

Disclaimer.
I am putting this out as food for thought, not trying to teach men.


I saw this comment in the other thread, but did not want to derail the very interesting topic of conversation over there.

Herod, do you think he was a beleiver? There's a big difference in Him punishing those who are against Him, His people and disciplining His people out of love.

If you go to the Jewish Encyclopedia's entry on Edom/Edomite you can read the history that explains that Herod was a descendant of Esau/Edom.

The prophesies about Edom are very different from the prophesies about Israel.....to put it mildly.

I/we believe these were the "Wolves in sheep's clothing" Jesus referred to, and who Paul had in mind when he wrote "They are not all Israel that are of Israel" and "He is not a Jew that is one outwardly"

The renewed covenant was with literal Israel, both "houses." YHWH did not give His Spirit to, and write His law on the hearts of those He spoke against through His Son.

How can you say he would do us no harm? Did you read what I said in relation to King Harrod in the book of Acts? He was eaten by worms and died, is that not Gods wrath and doing "harm"?

Herod and other descendants of Esau, the Edomites, are a people that YHWH has plainly spoken against. The entire book of Obadiah is prophesy of their judgment and eventual destruction. Because of this I absolutely see what happened to Herod as YHWH's wrath!

YHWH who knows the end from the beginning calls the Edomites a destroying mountain (nation) and He is of course speaking the truth.

Ezekiel also writes that YHWH is against all Edumia because they have 'appointed His land into their possession with despiteful minds to cast it out for a prey.'

Much of the workings of "Mystery Babylon the Great" are simply men (specifically Edomites I believe) who have rejected Christ (un-regenerated man = selfish and evil) who have tried to usurp the place of our true king (Yeshua) and who have deliberately caused by their greed and lust for power destruction and death at a level only truly known to YHWH.


Please read the history in the Jewish Encyclopedia entry linked above. It explains why Yeshua/Jesus ministered to some and denounced others, was accepted by some, and rejected by others, and finally it offers us insight into why some called "Jews" both then and now reject him when He told us plainly "My sheep (Israelites) hear my voice and I know them and they follow me" (contrast that with what he told a few "wolves" "My word has no place in you (not written on their hearts) because you are NOT my sheep" most try to spiritualize this, but history shows it at least could have been (and I believe is) completely literal.

Most ignore the verses about Jews who call themselves Jews but are not. Please at least address the substance of the material and scriptures mentioned in this post when and if you respond. My hubby is dealing with a lawsuit, and the lawyers on the other side are as slimy and evasive as a greased snake. I really don't have time or desire to 'prove' anything to people with no desire to prove stuff themselves.

 

[Slumberfreeze]

This is very interesting.

I couldn't find anyplace in the link provided that named Herod explicitly, but visiting Herod I's entry provided me with:

"King of Judea 40-4 B.C.; founder of the Herodian dynasty; born about 73 B.C.; son of Antipater, and, consequently, of Idumean origin"

Which tied it together for me.


Am I understanding you correctly that those who were ministered to by Jesus were genetically Israelite, and those who were denounced by him were genetically Edomites?

 

[Joleneakamama]

This is very interesting.

I couldn't find anyplace in the link provided that named Herod explicitly, but visiting Herod I's entry provided me with:

"King of Judea 40-4 B.C.; founder of the Herodian dynasty; born about 73 B.C.; son of Antipater, and, consequently, of Idumean origin"

Which tied it together for me.


Am I understanding you correctly that those who were ministered to by Jesus were genetically Israelite, and those who were denounced by him were genetically Edomites?

I believe Jesus ministered to Israelites, and non Israelites who believed. There was the Canaanite woman he said some interesting things to.....but He still healed her daughter.
The great commission sent believers into all the world to preach the good news to every nation.
I do believe those He denounced were Edomites. There is a place where He taught that the truth would make them free, and they said in responding that they were Abraham's descendants but had never been in bondage to any man. Israel and his entire household went to Egypt, and Israel was in numerous other captivities over the years. At the time Yeshua ministered in the flesh Rome was over the Israelite people to the point that the Sanhedrin worried that they would take away their positions if they let Yeshua continue His ministry....it was not politically correct.
Paul wrote that "If ye be Christ's then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise" so Paul didn't let anyone count as chosen or blessed if they rejected Christ. Paul also wrote about Ishmael, and Esau, and quotes scripture "Jacob have I loved ...Esau have I hated" (someone once told me hated was better translated "loved less" but after reading prophesies I think loved less is kinda misleading). We can also read that He that hath the son hath the father also....and No man cometh unto the father but by the son. There is a great verse in Isaiah where YHWH said He would gather "strangers" to Christ in addition to those that were already in the covenant.
The Jewish Encyclopedia also tells us that "Edom is in modern Jewry" which makes sense because those that responded to the voice of the Shepard were called out of the synagogues and into the body of Christ, the Eklesia.....which would have left behind those who were only outward Jews....Edomites and others who loved the Zoroaster and Babylonian influenced "traditions" the Pharisees clung to, to carry on and pass down Talmudic Judaism and the hatred of Yeshua.

Micah has a verse that does indicate some Israelites may still be stuck in the non messianic mind set of the Pharisees. Perhaps their ancestors went with the mob that hated Yeshua and cursed their posterity by saying "let his blood be upon us and upon our children"?
I just ask a lot of questions....and try to put the pieces together. I'm always willing to listen to others ....providing they are willing to answer questions and discuss stuff.

Edited to add that Jesus said while ministering in the flesh "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" But then as our King having all power and authority He sent His followers into all the world to preach the good news.

 

[Sean Miller]

Are you saying Harod was killed because of God speaking against the Edomites? Or that it was only God's wrath against Harod because of his ancestors?

The way the word explains it, Harod died because he didn't give credit/praise to God. Not because he killed James or arrested Peter or had killed many others. Personally I can only go off of what scripture say for the cause of his death-
"And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god, and not of a man. And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost"
Acts 12:22‭-‬23 KJV

 

[Slumberfreeze]

@Joleneakamama

You raise an angle that I hadn't really considered before. When I go through the prophecies I tend to focus on the territories held by the ancient tribes to get a picture of how upcoming wars will change the political climate. I confess I have not paid a lot of attention to the bloodlines.

That Herod was himself an Edomite is brand new information to me. Suddenly the synagogue of Satan in Rev 3:9 has some background for me. Very cool.

 

[Joleneakamama]

Are you saying Harod was killed because of God speaking against the Edomites? Or that it was only God's wrath against Harod because of his ancestors?

I am not trying to dispute the reason given in Acts for the execution of that particular Herod by the angel of the Lord.

I do believe that his execution is an example of the wrath of YHWH as it has been explained in the other thread (wrath being unto destruction not chastising a son).

I believe Herod's ancestry was a contributing factor in his death, as he was a different manner of people (what was said to Rebecca when she was carrying the twins who fathered the two nations) and was not one of the Israelites that had a covenant relationship with YHWH.

There are plenty of examples of YHWH killing Israelites too....and Israelites choosing to do and be evil, so I don't believe Israelites are just saved because of their ancestry. Just to be clear.

 

[Nikud]

Edom, the nation descended from Esau, once had a king named Jobab. He is actually listed as the second king of Edom. If this was Job (Job was certainly rich and important enough to have been a king,) then he was related to Israel, but not actually an Israelite, but a descendent of Abraham and Isaac and Esau.

Job dwelt in Uz on the confines of Idumea and Arabia. It continues that his original name was Johab. He married an Arabian woman and fathered Ennon. Job's father was Zerah who was from the lineage of Esau – five generations from Abraham.

The Septuagint identifies as Job in a section added at the end of the book as Jobab.

"You shall not detest an Edomite, for he is your brother; you shall not detest an Egyptian, because you were an alien in his land. "The sons of the third generation who are born to them may enter the assembly of the L-RD

So I would say it wouldn't be all Edomites that G-d hated, just the ones who sought to work against His will. Thats what I see about His wrath being reserved for those who harm His people and/or stands against His will by deed or by word.