Meat When is a mountain not a mountain?

[Joleneakamama]

When it is prophetic speech.

Here are some examples from scripture of this.

Isai. 11:9
9They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Jer. 51:25
Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

Now if you really believe a scriptural "mountain" is just an elevated hump a dirt, go gather strawberries in the snow, or hunt some maverick cattle in Antarctica.

Listen to the context here to see what I'm talking about.

Eze. 38:7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them. 8After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

It was not soil that was gathered out of many people and brought forth out of the nations....and it is not mounds of dirt that are dwelling securely.

So to find this latter day land of Israel you need to find a land that fits ALL the descriptors given.

What do those looking at the state of Israel to fulfill latter day prophesy do with these descriptors that do NOT fit that land?

What do you do with these descriptors?

1. brought back from the sword
(Recovered from war)
2. mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations
3.they shall dwell safely all of them
4. the land of unwalled villages
5. all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates
6. To take a prey and a spoil in the desolate places that are now inhabited,

There is still Jeremiah 7 too which Yeshua quoted from cleansing the temple and lamenting over Jerusalem....

And the prophesy of appointing a place for His people given by Nathan to David.

 

[MeganC]

Just myself, but I think Israel has to retake the Sinai and Mount Sinai before some of the prophecies can be realized.

 

[Keith Martin]

It sounds like Afghanistan, the people of which are far too readily demonized.

 

[Bartato]

I have to admit that there is so much in Ezekiel, Jeremiah, and Isaiah that I don't understand very well. I am currently trying to work on remedying that by reading through Jeremiah.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Just myself, but I think Israel has to retake the Sinai and Mount Sinai before some of the prophecies can be realized.

The Gaza Strip is Judea and Samaria. That seems like a significant piece of real estate. One with rockets flying all around it at the moment.

 

[Joleneakamama]

The Gaza Strip is Judea and Samaria. That seems like a significant piece of real estate. One with rockets flying all around it at the moment.

Which is one of the things that disqualifies that land presently, it is not brought back from the sword (recovered from war).
The part of the description that can never fit is 'always been waste' as that land has been inhabited continuously for thousands of years......there are others too.

 

[Keith Martin]

The tundra in Alaska? It's never been inhabited!

 

[Joleneakamama]

The tundra in Alaska? It's never been inhabited!

Well, if a mess of people moved there out of many nations......but Alaska doesn't have an East sea, or cattle to speak of. Not in the midst of the land either. ...so.... not the Tundra of Alaska.

The other point is that mountain is referencing a group of people like God's covenant people, (my holy mountain) or that great city babylon (the rolled down and burnt mountain) and in this prophesy there are mountains (plural) of Israel. (You will not have gone over the cities of Israel before the son of man be come.)

Since this described latter day land of Israel can not be the modern state called Israel....one needs to consider other possibilities.

People in the New Testement came to "mount zion" by faith......and it is the New Jerusalem built on the foundation of the 12 Yeshua called. Anyone not over that foundation really cannot be in the city.

But a bunch of those sort of believers relocated a few hundred years ago...

 

[Keith Martin]

Sounds like Atlanta, Georgia, to me, and maybe Sherman's March to the sea is part of the prophecy. And downtown Atlanta is literally built on the top of the ruins of the original city Sherman burned to the ground. The Jews are the second highest group of people represented there, and between the power held by them and that held by the blacks in Atlanta (actually, one of the most powerful, albeit relatively small, sub-groups within the Atlanta black community is on its West End: polygamous black Israelites), there isn't much power left to go around for everyone else.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Which is one of the things that disqualifies that land presently, it is not brought back from the sword (recovered from war).
The part of the description that can never fit is 'always been waste' as that land has been inhabited continuously for thousands of years......there are others too.

It’s not brought back from the sword YET. And that’s only relevant if the passage you’re quoting isn’t referring to a post return, millennial, New Jerusalem situation. You make way too much of passages that are in their surface very simple.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Since this described latter day land of Israel can not be the modern state called Israel....one needs to consider other possibilities.

You act like “the modern nation state of Israel” is in its final form, that it can never morph or evolve or change. You are grasping at straws to justify a belief that has been disproven. The passage says it talking about Israel, it then gives a description of Israel, it then lists off a bunch of towns, lands and geological features around Israel. Just accept that most people are going to believe it is talking about Israel. Most people don’t have whatever special revelation you’ve received that allows to reject a plain reading of scripture for a far more esoteric one.

 

[Joleneakamama]

You act like “the modern nation state of Israel” is in its final form, that it can never morph or evolve or change. You are grasping at straws to justify a belief that has been disproven. The passage says it talking about Israel, it then gives a description of Israel, it then lists off a bunch of towns, lands and geological features around Israel. Just accept that most people are going to believe it is talking about Israel. Most people don’t have whatever special revelation you’ve received that allows to reject a plain reading of scripture for a far more esoteric one.

Your the one arguing that land can morph or change. I am the one using the simple reading of 'always been waste.' You cannot erase thousands of years of occupancy.

YHWH told Israel your descendants will inherit the nations, and Yeshua told His disciples they would not have gone over the cities of Israel before the son of man be come. Both of those passages indicate a bigger picture.

Those aren't 3d goggles you're wearing....they are more like the blinkers on a driving horse bridle.

But then if you lost track of Israel when Jews and Gentiles came together under Yeshua.....if you only recognize AS Israel people still using the old name.....you might believe that this chunk of amazing country is going to be destroyed like many false teachers preach. They cannot see who or what we are either.

 

[Bartato]

Your the one arguing that land can morph or change. I am the one using the simple reading of 'always been waste.' You cannot erase thousands of years of occupancy.

YHWH told Israel your descendants will inherit the nations, and Yeshua told His disciples they would not have gone over the cities of Israel before the son of man be come. Both of those passages indicate a bigger picture.

Those aren't 3d goggles you're wearing....they are more like the blinkers on a driving horse bridle.

But then if you lost track of Israel when Jews and Gentiles came together under Yeshua.....if you only recognize AS Israel people still using the old name.....you might believe that this chunk of amazing country is going to be destroyed like many false teachers preach. They cannot see who or what we are either.

Joleneakamama,
What particular land are you proposing was meant? Are you saying it is the USA, or some particular portion of the USA? Curious,. thanks

 

[Joleneakamama]

Joleneakamama,
What particular land are you proposing was meant? Are you saying it is the USA, or some particular portion of the USA? Curious,. thanks

There is a lot that documents that Israel migrated into Europe. Even looking at where those early churches were established shows that either the apostles botched their mission, or those "lost sheep" they were sent to were there.

In looking at that passage in Ezekiel a land is described that is called the mountains of Israel. The United states fits every descriptor, and I do believe that the United states is the latter day land of regathered Israel. That we are the company of nations prophesied to come from Jacob/Israel, as there were only two prior to dispersion.

We were born in a day on July 4th 1776 when we declared our independence. We were gathered out of the nations and were very blessed before the subversion and debt bondage that Micah calls "going even to babylon." We are referred to as the daughter of Zion, and it is written that unto the daughter of Zion is to come the first dominion.

Sighted moon ministries has a presentation on the ten tribes. It is interesting, though his conclusion in trying to call this nation gathered out of many Menasah is in conflict with most of his message showing the Israel/tribal heritage of those nations that combined to make this one.

Most lost track of Israel when the prophesied name change happened about 2000 years ago. Gentile and Goy do not mean non Israelite.

 

[Bartato]

There is a lot that documents that Israel migrated into Europe. Even looking at where those early churches were established shows that either the apostles botched their mission, or those "lost sheep" they were sent to were there.

In looking at that passage in Ezekiel a land is described that is called the mountains of Israel. The United states fits every descriptor, and I do believe that the United states is the latter day land of regathered Israel. That we are the company of nations prophesied to come from Jacob/Israel, as there were only two prior to dispersion.

We were born in a day on July 4th 1776 when we declared our independence. We were gathered out of the nations and were very blessed before the subversion and debt bondage that Micah calls "going even to babylon." We are referred to as the daughter of Zion, and it is written that unto the daughter of Zion is to come the first dominion.

Sighted moon ministries has a presentation on the ten tribes. It is interesting, though his conclusion in trying to call this nation gathered out of many Menasah is in conflict with most of his message showing the Israel/tribal heritage of those nations that combined to make this one.

Most lost track of Israel when the prophesied name change happened about 2000 years ago. Gentile and Goy do not mean non Israelite.

Thank you. I thought you were suggesting something like that. It is a fascinating theory.

 

[Joleneakamama]

Thank you. I thought you were suggesting something like that. It is a fascinating theory.

It is a very unpopular idea with those that have heavily invested their hearts into Zionism.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Your the one arguing that land can morph or change. I am the one using the simple reading of 'always been waste.' You cannot erase thousands of years of occupancy.

YHWH told Israel your descendants will inherit the nations, and Yeshua told His disciples they would not have gone over the cities of Israel before the son of man be come. Both of those passages indicate a bigger picture.

Those aren't 3d goggles you're wearing....they are more like the blinkers on a driving horse bridle.

But then if you lost track of Israel when Jews and Gentiles came together under Yeshua.....if you only recognize AS Israel people still using the old name.....you might believe that this chunk of amazing country is going to be destroyed like many false teachers preach. They cannot see who or what we are either.

America wasn’t always waste either. Either you slice it doesn’t work.

 

[Pacman]

When it is prophetic speech.

Here are some examples from scripture of this.

Isai. 11:9
9They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Jer. 51:25
Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

Now if you really believe a scriptural "mountain" is just an elevated hump a dirt, go gather strawberries in the snow, or hunt some maverick cattle in Antarctica.

Listen to the context here to see what I'm talking about.

Eze. 38:7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them. 8After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

It was not soil that was gathered out of many people and brought forth out of the nations....and it is not mounds of dirt that are dwelling securely.

So to find this latter day land of Israel you need to find a land that fits ALL the descriptors given.

What do those looking at the state of Israel to fulfill latter day prophesy do with these descriptors that do NOT fit that land?




There is still Jeremiah 7 too which Yeshua quoted from cleansing the temple and lamenting over Jerusalem....

And the prophesy of appointing a place for His people given by Nathan to David.

This is BS

Did you even look into the word translated as "mountains" it can absolutely mean 'hill' or 'hill country'

Brown-Driver-Briggs' Definition
hill, mountain, hill country, mount

Usage by Word
mountains (154), mountain (139), mount (117), hill (97), country (83), hills (8), hillside (1)

As far as it being a "continual waste" it's not necessarily saying it wasn't inhabited. It takes a lot less hoop jumping and scripture ignoring to conclude that it's talking about being a waste spirituality which is true basically since the time of Solomon.

 

[Pacman]

Your the one arguing that land can morph or change.

There is no question that the small piece of land that is the modern nation of Israel is no where close to the full boundaries that were given to Abraham by Yah himself. It will absolutely be much larger at some point when all of this is fulfilled. Is it possible that it will include more than that? Of course it's possible but the USA does not replace Israel. Neither the land or the People.

I agree that there are a lot of people who are part of Israel who do not realize it, most of them sit in pagan worship centers every Sunday thinking they are doing what God wants them to do. There are also a lot of people who know exactly who they are and others want to slander them because they haven't recognized who the true Messiah is YET.

Let Yahweh be true and every man a liar.

 

[Joleneakamama]

USA does not replace Israel. Neither the land or the People.

This is typical of the Zionist thinking I run into.

Israel, the children of Israel, the Gentiles of the dispersion cast into the nations... all are DESCENDANTS of the man Jacob/Israel. Many of them became believers in the one who died for our sins. They then for the most part came to be called Christians, because "Judeo christianity" is a rather recent thing. Being associated with Yeshua or called by another name never changed their ethnicity. Would you expect Yah, who absolutely knows who is who, to bless and reward those rejecting Him, or those believing on His son? This is why America has been blessed....and why we are now under the curses. That is a sign on that particular people forever!

I am not saying we replaced the people. I'm saying the believers who were led to this land ARE the people.

This is Yah keeping His word and fulfilling verses spoken about appointing a place for His people where they will move no more. Settling them after their old estates and doing better to them then at their beginnings. Blessing those descendants so they Inherit the nations.

Y'all never have answered Jeremiah chapter 7. I believe that Yah left that land to Ishmael's descendants who He acknowledged as Abraham's seed. He told Israel (Judah) that their continued possession of that land was CONDITIONAL, and that they would not meet the conditions, PERIOD.

Yeshua quoted from that chapter cleansing the temple, and lamenting over Jerusalem REPEATING THE JUDGEMENT...

...YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT UNTO YOU DESOLATE.

This was after the Babylonian captivity, so sorry Pete, that wasn't it.

Isaiah confirms the prophesy spoken by Israel about Judah, that after Yeshua (Shiloh) came that the gathering of the people is TO HIM. Yah said He will gather others TO HIM, and he calls them strangers. (Isa. 56 I think)

This goes right along with the parable "the kingdom of heaven is like leaven that a woman HID in three measures of meal until all were leavened." (Two houses of Israel and strangers are three groups)

I have seen you guys state that the scriptures don't talk about another land... yet I see that they do. And they describe a different gathering that happens UNSEEN and worldwide. This is what eventually results in "The kingdoms of the world are become the kingdom of our God and of His Christ." May He speed the day.