For anyone who might be interested here was my response to the thread, I was talking about earlier. I had posted my monogamy question in their forum. Perhaps the community can find some value in it. They locked my thread so I haven't posted my below reply yet, and will be making a new thread later today when there is more people on. If anyone has any corrections or additions to the non opinion stuff let me know.
POST STARTS HERE
Sorry for taking so long to respond, this new year has been a little crazy and life takes priority over posting. Unfortunately now that I have the time window to sit down and crank out some thorough responses, it looks like the thread has been locked. I don’t know if I will be able to do such large responses in the future as these take quite a bit of time to put together. I spent around 15 hours putting this together and barely scratched the surface, but hopefully it is thorough enough for those who have been waiting for a reply.
This first one is for Coolrunningsmon’s replies. I will address CaseyMarion's, and Frameofdust's replies further down.
“Most scholars believe that Paul referred to the Greek's pagan practices as including polygamy and that's why his writings deal with it on a couple of occasions especially in reference to the qualifications of the bishop. My personal belief is that the qualifications for bishop and deacon are something every Christian should hope to measure up to in this life. 1 Timothy 3:2, Titus 1:6, 1 Timothy 3:12” - Coolrunningsmon
The Israelite's were practicing polygyny long before, during, and even after the Greeks were around, and even before Israel became Israel. If it was such an issue why didn’t Yahshua address it directly like he did so many other cultural issues of the Romans at the time? Can polygyny itself even be attributed to paganism in origin scripturally or historically? We first see it mentioned as early as Genesis and Lamech is clearly referencing Yah's statement to Cain, not some pagan God. I would suggest doing some research into one of the only monogamous Greek gods, Hera who was their goddess of marriage. As well as the monogamous laws of ancient Rome and who they applied to and were given by. Found in the links below.
Regarding Paul and the bishops and deacons, Paul knew Yah’s Law and that he could not add to it or subtract from it. Anything he says should not contradict established scripture. It must also be considered that many of Paul’s writings were to specific situations ongoing in the early church and should be read under that context first. There are 2 other ways the word mia, used for “one” can be translated either as “first” or “at least one”. Meaning a person should not have divorced his first wife, or should have at least one wife. Modern culture has been monogamous for so long it is understandable that it would be interpreted under the “one limit” lens.
The fact of the matter is neither Paul nor any other of the apostles were given the authority to make new commands or nullify others in regards to Yah’s law (Matthew 5:17-37). However in regards to the church even if it was a limit for those seeking a church position, it is not a commandment of Yah, but of Paul and would only apply to those seeking that specific position. Just as priests were only allowed to marry virgins as to not dishonor their children (Lev. 21:13-15) and Kings were limited not to only one but to “excess” of things, because his focus was to be on the prosperity of the kingdom not his own house (Deut. 17:14-20). It only outlines the limits for those in that very specfic position.
You can believe what you will regarding the measure of a christian, but that does not make it a commandment for all men, just your opinion. Notice how Paul the very one who sets the limit which you are using to measure a christian, would disqualify himself from measuring up to that belief in choosing to remain unmarried and or celibate. I am sure you don’t think so lowly of Paul, because of his choice. I believe Yah calls each person to his own will and allows room for the various options he has set up. Just as a body has many parts we have different strengths and weaknesses and are called to different roles.
Marriage is a covenant, and what we see in scripture is Yah define that covenant as being between 2 parties, one man and one woman (Gen.2:24, Eph. 5:31). Not a woman and a woman (but do notice there is no command regarding sexual relations among women), or a man and a man, or man and a beast, nor man and flippy, nor group marriage like polyamory, ect. He then outlines the terms and requirements of this covenant for each party throughout his law (Exo. 20:12-20, 21:1-11, 22:16-17, Leviticus 18, 19, 20, Num. 5:29-31, Deut 22:13-30). Most of those limits are based on the marital status of the woman, not the man. In doing so he limits the amount of covenants that a woman may have at a time, but no where does he limit the amount of covenants a man can have. He does outline how multiple covenants are to be handled though (Exodus 21:10-11). In poylgyny the women are not married to each other but only to the one husband. He is the root they are the branches. Each covenant stands on its own separate from any others the man may have simultaneously, and he is required to fulfill the requirements of each covenant he cuts.
There are two places I can think of where man is told to marry. Gen. 1:28 and the redemption of a brother who dies without a son (Deut 25:5-6). We see how serious Yah takes this issue in Genesis before Israel was even a nation, long before Sinai (Genesis 38:8-10). After Mt. Sinai we see how shameful it was to refuse this duty (Deut 25:6-10), if it is shameful to refuse it, then it is honorable to uphold it. There is no exception stated for this command whether a man was single, monogamous, polygynous, or celibate. I suppose an argument could be made for a man fitting the description of Deut. 23:1, but it is not implicitly stated in the command. Yah could also perform a miracle in such a situation, as we see he does with many barren women.
Paul chose to be unmarried. Is it ever counted against Paul for making that choice? No, but no where do I remember seeing in the Law where Yah commands a man must be married, only dose he state that it is not good for man to be alone (Gen. 2:18). But if Paul had been called to the duty of redeeming a brother would it be counted against him if he chose not to? I think so. This shows marriage and non marriage are dictated by circumstance. Whether one seeks marriage or not, should the circumstance to participate arrive, the requirements of and for marriage for all who inhabit the earth do not change until heaven and earth pass away.
“But I would retort that God never condoned it, instead in every instance he either promised he would punish it, or did execute judgement on it. Deuteronomy 17:17, 1 Kings 11:4-8” – Coolrunningsmon
Before going forward into addressing the various scriptures cited. I want to state and this may not be you, but often I see people cite OT law to justify a belief of the church but then ignore other things of the law, saying the OT no longer applies. Leaning on it only to justify a position they hold. Is this not illogical? It either does or it doesn’t we cannot pick and choose, messiah says it has not passed away, if someone is going to cite it they should be holding to it should they not? Otherwise it doesn’t apply to them, how can it hold them up?
There is no punishment listed in Deut. 17:14-20, and I am not aware of any punishments specifically for the act of participating in Polygyny in either OT or NT but there are many who are honored and called righteous who did participate. No where is that participation counted against them. In the same way we don’t see anyone called righteous for being monogamous or celibate. Correlation is not causation.
Regarding 1 Kings 11:4-8 if we step back 3 versus we can very clearly see the context of what actually happened and see that it was the marrying of foreign wives who Yah specifically said not to intermarry with that were the issue. Not marrying multiple wives itself. (1 Kings 11:1-2) 1King Solomon, however, loved **many foreign women** along with the daughter of Pharaoh—women of Moab, **Ammon**, Edom, and **Sidon**, as well as Hittite women. 2These women were from the nations about which the LORD had told the Israelites, “You must not intermarry with them, for surely they will turn your hearts after their gods.” Yet Solomon clung to these women in love.
If you read even further into the chapter versus 7-13 you will see Yah outline in detail Solomon's trespasses and punishment. None of which is in regards to hi Polygyny. Also notice how in 1 Kings 11:4-8 David who also had multiple wives did not have this issue and is spoken of as an example of how Solomon should have conducted himself.
We know David’s wives did not turn his heart away, his coveting of another mans wife did. We see Yah address this through Nathan saying not only did he give him the wives he had but he would have given him more wives if all he did was ask (2 Samuel 12:8). If you continue reading you will notice that what made Yah angry was the adultery and murder David committed, and that is what is punished and spoken against. He already had multiple marriages, and they were not addressed nor mentioned during David’s rebuke wherein Yah says **HE** is going to cause calamity in David’s house because of David’s trespasses towards Uriah. It does not say because of or out of David’s marriages calamity fell upon him.
As for the additional scriptures. Not sure how these pertain to the original question, but I will address them as they apply to the topic.
1 Corinthians 7:39 – Length of the marriage covenant.
Genesis 20:1-18 – Adultery is bad and has been since before Sinai.
Deuteronomy 25:5 – Discussed above, Command to redeem your brother.
Ephesians 5:31 – Discussed above, defines the parties of a marriage covenant.
1 Peter 3:7 – Describes how the 2 parties should interact with each other while in covenant.
Ephesians 5:23 – Describes the authority structure of a marriage.
“Ah yes, the case for Christian Crack Cocaine.
Show me where in the Bible it says though shalt not to smoke crack”
And as a bonus response look up the word pharmakeia, then See Deut. 18:20, Galatians 5:20, Revelation 18:23, Revelation 9:21, Revelation 21:8, and Revelation 22:15.
