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US antisemitism bill
- Thread starter MemeFan
- Start date
Broad enough to drive a truck through. If we still had an actual 'court' - it would be "void for vagueness." E.g., "examples", or "including but not limited to..." "perceptions," and even "Jewish or non-Jewish." Is that broad enough?
Note how it can include essentially ANYTHING a 'prosecutor' might eventually want.
Note how it can include essentially ANYTHING a 'prosecutor' might eventually want.
It's a terrible law. But fortunately for the direct concern here, the most serious issue - the idea that claiming the Jews killed Jesus is antisemitic - is tempered by this only being called antisemitic when it is used to "characterise Israel or Israelis". Which would presumably mean that if you're standing on a street corner yelling at Israelis - "you Jews killed Jesus" you're being antisemitic, but if you're not specifically targeting the remark at Israelis you can still discuss it factually. But it's very vague as Mark says and a serious slippery slope.
Points 6, 7, 8 and 10 are essentially banning "holding certain political opinions".
Saying you can't compare contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis is ridiculous, but goes along with a broad theme at present, as the entire West becomes more fascist they all try to hide it by preventing people from comparing them to the nazis - people are finding you get into a lot of trouble in Germany for making that comparison to their government's covid policies - this is an excuse to extend it to criticism of the Israeli government but we're going to see that applied in the entire West before long. You have to ban telling the truth in case people realise it - and I'm not talking about Israel specifically, I'm talking about where all Western governments are going.
Points 6, 7, 8 and 10 are essentially banning "holding certain political opinions".
Saying you can't compare contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis is ridiculous, but goes along with a broad theme at present, as the entire West becomes more fascist they all try to hide it by preventing people from comparing them to the nazis - people are finding you get into a lot of trouble in Germany for making that comparison to their government's covid policies - this is an excuse to extend it to criticism of the Israeli government but we're going to see that applied in the entire West before long. You have to ban telling the truth in case people realise it - and I'm not talking about Israel specifically, I'm talking about where all Western governments are going.
....have gone.
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His_Sofochka
Guest
I'm a little confused. Isn't modern Israel's entire existence built on having a place for Jews to go to be safe from Nazis?
You also say the West is becoming more fascist every day. I just watched my homeland turned to ruins by a man who said this, and used it as an excuse to kill everyone I have ever loved, so I get uneasy when I hear accusations of "Nazis... Nazis... Nazis here, Nazis there" set out like oranges at a fruit stand. Do you have any examples?
The word "fascist" does not mean Naziism. It is a political term, that refers to a society where the government and big business work together to run the country. In a fascist society you see things like major projects funded by "public-private partnerships", large businesses being deemed "too big to fail" and subsidised so they don't, big companies having a major role or influence on laws and policies, large swathes of agricultural land being handed to multinational corporations instead of owned by local farmers, and so forth - pick any Western country and you'll find plenty of examples of those things. It is a form of socialism, but quite different to communism, where the government owns everything and there are no big businesses, or democratic socialism, where the government runs everything but the people get to vote about it. In fascism major parts of the economy are run by large businesses which receive favourable treatment from the government. I'm in New Zealand and this country is most certainly fascist these days (technically speaking).
This is the standard model of government in most Western countries today, but most people don't realise it and think they're still living under democratic socialism. Things have changed and are continuing to change very rapidly.
One way of calling people's attention to how control of their countries is moving away from democratically elected representatives and towards large corporate interests, is to point out the similarities between Western governments and policies of Nazi Germany, simply because Nazi Germany is the most well-known past example of a fascist government. Mussolini's Italy and Franco's Spain would actually be technically better examples to use in many cases but they're less well known so are less useful as a rhetorical tool. So comparisons to the Nazis, although imperfect, are an important part of political discussion. To ban these comparisons hampers people's ability to discuss real-world present-day politics.
No, because it was established after the Nazis were defeated. Modern Israel exists to provide an island of non-Muslim land in the middle of the Middle East, to keep the Muslims divided and prevent the Ottoman Empire forming again. That's fundamentally why the West sponsors it - the Ottomans were the largest threat to both the West and Russia for hundreds of years up to WW1, Western policy in the Middle East since WW1 has been designed to keep it divided, for good reason. If the Muslims united again and took the whole of the Middle East that would be extremely dangerous. That is fundamentally why Western countries support Israel. There are no Nazis today to protect the Jews from.
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His_Sofochka
Guest
...This definition of Fascism includes every country I have ever visited or even read about the existence of, anywhere in Earth, from the Industrial Revolution to the present day.
You misunderstand me @His_Sofochka. Most Western countries were not fascist prior to WW2, New Zealand certainly wasn't until at least the 1980s.
But that's not really the point. The point is that when countries do things that a fascist country would do, people often point it out by showing that the Nazis did that. It's a useful comparison when discussing politics, and to ban that comparison limits political discussion. That's all.
But that's not really the point. The point is that when countries do things that a fascist country would do, people often point it out by showing that the Nazis did that. It's a useful comparison when discussing politics, and to ban that comparison limits political discussion. That's all.
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His_Sofochka
Guest
You misunderstood my point, I think. Modern Israel came into existence in 1949, for the expressly stated purpose of creating (or re-creating, hence the old name "Ersatz-Israel") a Jewish homeland. The language surrounding its charter documents specifically cited the need for preventing further genocide against them as the raison d'etre of its creation. I'm also confused how the Ottomans, who at that point had not existed since the end of WW1, have any bearing on the epilogue of WW2. The spectre of the Islamic Middle East uniting is far-fetched at best. Turkey (the Ottomans) and Iran (the Persians) are at each other's throats, roughly equally matched, and thoroughly ensconced in opposing blocs (NATO in Turkey's case, China's harem of vassal states in Iran's case), and there's little chance any power capable of bringing those two into line will rise from within Islam in the coming century at least.
You also speak of the West "sponsoring" Israel, but for the first thirty years of Israel's existence the West hated it. It was a staunch Soviet satellite. When the Soviets dropped them in favor of Israel they batted their eyes at France before eventually catching the eye of the US, but that was not until near the end of the Cold War. The narrative of Israel being an "enclave of the West" is incompatible with a quick glance over a history book.
Also, "there are no Nazis today" is questionable as well. Look up "Task Force Rusich."
But this is so much water. To get back to the point, why is it a problem that the bill targets those who compare Israel to the Nazis? The only ones saying anything like this are the ones (almost universally Iranian-backed propagandists) who use rants about "Zionazis" to compare Israel to the nation Israel was created to keep Holocaust survivors safe from.
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His_Sofochka
Guest
Excuse me. "When the Soviets dropped them in favor of Egypt."
Sure the comparison is used this way, however another large group of people in any country who compare their government to the Nazis are citizens of that country who disagree with their policies on matters like Covid, where the government was too authoritarian. I can see the desire to ban speech from an Iranian propagandist comparing Zionism to Nazis - but the problem is that it gets in the way of domestic political discussion also. Banning speech is always bad.
Regarding the reason Israel was/is supported by various countries - the Ottoman empire was also one of the largest historical enemies to the Russian Empire (consider the history of Crimea and the Caucasus). That is why the USSR supported Israel for so many years. The USSR was not religious, they weren't supporting Jews because they were Jews, nor did they have any interest in keeping people safe - they were murderous themselves. They were selfish communists who had their own reason for doing anything - and in this case, it helped keep the Muslims divided and avoided a threat to the southern border of the USSR.
Even Nazi Germany supported the Zionist settlement in Israel in the 1930s, up to WW2, both financially and practically. And the USA and much of Europe now supports Israel. Everyone in the West has supported Israel at some time - the Nazis, the Communists, and the democratic countries. It's not about ideology, or keeping Jews safe (even those who hate Jews have supported Israel). When you think about it, Israel's actually the most dangerous place in the world to be a Jew, they're surrounded by enemies and could be bombed any day, while Jews in basically any other country in the world live in peace and aren't bothered by anyone, so it's certainly not about keeping Jews safe. The people themselves would be safer in the USA or Europe. Jews in Israel are pawns in a great geopolitical game of strategy.
As are we all. But most are tricked into thinking the powers that be actually care about us and are doing things for our own good.
Edit: I know the "stated purpose" was to keep the Jews safe, but I'm talking about the real reason, not the one in the propaganda!
Even Nazi Germany supported the Zionist settlement in Israel in the 1930s, up to WW2, both financially and practically. And the USA and much of Europe now supports Israel. Everyone in the West has supported Israel at some time - the Nazis, the Communists, and the democratic countries. It's not about ideology, or keeping Jews safe (even those who hate Jews have supported Israel). When you think about it, Israel's actually the most dangerous place in the world to be a Jew, they're surrounded by enemies and could be bombed any day, while Jews in basically any other country in the world live in peace and aren't bothered by anyone, so it's certainly not about keeping Jews safe. The people themselves would be safer in the USA or Europe. Jews in Israel are pawns in a great geopolitical game of strategy.
As are we all. But most are tricked into thinking the powers that be actually care about us and are doing things for our own good.
Edit: I know the "stated purpose" was to keep the Jews safe, but I'm talking about the real reason, not the one in the propaganda!
Except this is possible way bigger.
When was US Congress able to pass law smaller than 100 pages? What else is inside?
That's not correct @FollowingHim. Jews from around the world are returning to Israel because of the rise of hate crimes against them post the October 7th terror attacks. Look at the news reports by e.g. Rebel News or even some of the mainstream media reports of the violence against Israelis with the protest marches around the world. Being a Jew/Israeli anywhere in the world now is dangerous. Shalom
First, this bill still needs to pass the Senate and be signed by the President before it is law.
Second, this bill only affects educational institutions that recieve federal funding.
Third, it still sucks and the Department of Education should be abolished.
Second, this bill only affects educational institutions that recieve federal funding.
Third, it still sucks and the Department of Education should be abolished.
One correction: Even if the Fake Fuhrer puts an "X" at the bottom, it still isn't actually "law". Any more than any of the other Legion of anti-constitutional infringements they pretend are. But they do manage to get decent people killed anyway,
That's what they teach in those Indoctrination Centers, anyway.
But here you nailed it:
That's the point. And it's WHY the Whole World is such a stinking mess.
It was less true, but still headed downhill, before the Covid Plandemic. But realize that Hitler's Nazis actually killed a lot less people than the Fourth Reich [worldwide] already has - with the new Zyklon-B (mRNA, LPN, graphene, ect) clot shot. And that's just a part of the picture.
Look at the Public-Private Partnership that's pushing 'killing carbon' in the name of "climate change" (which had to be renamed from Anthopogenic Global Warming for the obvious reason.)
Samuel was on the right track. The reason today's Reich wants to control speech and outlaw discussion of their agenda, and comparing it to that sordid history - is because THIS time they intend to fix the mistakes the same essential philosophy made last time.
Yes, the risks to Jews have increased everywhere over recent months. But I still don't think it's possible to argue they are more safe in Israel, because the risks to them there have increased even more at the same time. You could make a very debatable case that they're in equal danger everywhere, but would struggle to say that the real and present danger to them in Israel, surrounded by enemies, is less than the danger they are in when living somewhere like New Zealand where I'm not aware of any Jew ever being killed for being a Jew.
This. It’s a stupid bill passed by stupid people and is likely unconstitutional but it only defines anti-semitism for the purposes of what’s called Title VI. It applies in only one limited area of college campuses.
It’s a small step further down a road we don’t want to go down, but it’s a very small step.