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UncageTheLion response

N

NS4Liberty

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So the pro-patriarchy account UncageTheLion had a "Theology Thursday" a.m.a. so I asked "Do you agree with Martin Luther that a man marrying multiple wives is not contradicted by scripture?" I thought this was a good way of asking the question without coming off as hostile or even tipping my hand what I believe. This was his response (and his amendment).

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NS4Liberty said:
He seems open to a conversation, so I find that promising. Haven't decided how I want to respond yet.
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Tell him that some clown on YouTube keeps body slamming monogamy-only/creation-ideal types.... 🤣🤣
 
J.K....

Walk him slowly... ask questions he has to engage w.
 
Ask him if the monogamy of Adam and Eve was descriptive or prescriptive 😉

Maybe not

Maybe you should gently ask him why God treated David's polygamy totally differently than his adultery with Bathsheba. 2nd Samuel 12 is key in my opinion.

Also, perhaps ask him why the Bible defines adultery as a married woman having relations with a man other than her husband.
 
I honestly got kind of irritated reading his answer since it is the normal pablum we usually hear.

Where did God prohibit it?
When did He call it evil?
When did he punish anyone for it?
Why did so many godly men do it, and never repent?
Why did God regulate it?
 
NS4Liberty said:
The fact that he did not immediately dismiss it, I think says a lot about his attitude toward scripture. I only in the last 2 years came to accept the biblical view of marriage, so I can still remember how I thought.
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Good point, and this is a massive paradigm shift
 
Bartato said:
I honestly got kind of irritated reading his answer since it is the normal pablum we usually hear.

Where did God prohibit it?
When did He call it evil?
When did he punish anyone for it?
Why did so many godly men do it, and never repent?
Why did God regulate it?
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Why did both God the Father and God the Son both describe themselves as having multiple wives? Is modeling Christ what we should do? Is modeling our lives after the actions of God not the definition of Godliness?
 
NickF said:
Why did both God the Father and God the Son both describe themselves as having multiple wives? Is modeling Christ what we should do? Is modeling our lives after the actions of God not the definition of Godliness?
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God did so in the prophets. I'm not 100% sure about Christ doing so in the NT. Are you referring to the parable of the 10 virgins? I'd call that probable, but not totally certain about it.

"Christ is the Head of every man" from 1 Cor. is pretty clearly poly in terms of headship.
 
Bartato said:
God did so in the prophets. I'm not 100% sure about Christ doing so in the NT. Are you referring to the parable of the 10 virgins? I'd call that probable, but not totally certain about it.

"Christ is the Head of every man" from 1 Cor. is pretty clearly poly in terms of headship.
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Jesus actually used the plural for the greek word for "weddings/marriages" in two parables where He was describing himself marrying the 5 wise virgins and also in an earlier passage describing the "marriages" His Father arranged for Him.
 
NickF said:
Jesus actually used the plural for the greek word for "weddings/marriages" in two parables where He was describing himself marrying the 5 wise virgins and also in an earlier passage describing the "marriages" His Father arranged for Him.
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Good point 👍
I figured the "gnashing of teeth" was also pretty good evidence. You don't gnash teeth over missing your friend's wedding as a bridesmaid. You gnash your teeth when you miss your own. You gnash your teeth when the Bridegroom says "I do not know you".
 
Bartato said:
Good point 👍
I figured the "gnashing of teeth" was also pretty good evidence. You don't gnash teeth over missing your friend's wedding as a bridesmaid. You gnash your teeth when you miss your own. You gnash your teeth when the Bridegroom says "I do not know you".
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Excellent point! Never thought about it that way.
 
I should have checked here this morning before responding 😅. This is what I ended up with:

I appreciate your thoughtful answer. I just want to share some things to think about and research on the topic: God described Himself as having 2 wives in Jer. 31:32; God regulated a man having multiple wives in Exo. 21:10; there is evidence that the qualification for an Elder to have one wife is actually a phrase meaning still married to his first wife, but even if it is a limit on Elders, does that make it a limit on all men?; in 1 Cor. 7:2, when Paul says a man should have his own wife and a wife should have her own husband, in the greek a different word is used for "own" in each instance. The husbands ownership of his wife is an exclusionary ownership, while the wife's ownership of her husband is non-exclusionary (Paul could have used the same word, but didn't); and lastly the Jews continued to practice polygyny (men having multiple wives) at least up to 393 AD despite multiple efforts of the Romans to ban the practice and it was never addressed by Jesus or the NT writers as a sin.

I share this because we have a problem of more women than men in the church and even fewer good men. I would rather see a sister in Christ married to a proven man with a wife already than remain single or marry outside the faith. I think God has given us more options than we are using because of tradition. Thanks for reading and let me know if you have any questions.
 
NS4Liberty said:
I should have checked here this morning before responding 😅. This is what I ended up with:

I appreciate your thoughtful answer. I just want to share some things to think about and research on the topic: God described Himself as having 2 wives in Jer. 31:32; God regulated a man having multiple wives in Exo. 21:10; there is evidence that the qualification for an Elder to have one wife is actually a phrase meaning still married to his first wife, but even if it is a limit on Elders, does that make it a limit on all men?; in 1 Cor. 7:2, when Paul says a man should have his own wife and a wife should have her own husband, in the greek a different word is used for "own" in each instance. The husbands ownership of his wife is an exclusionary ownership, while the wife's ownership of her husband is non-exclusionary (Paul could have used the same word, but didn't); and lastly the Jews continued to practice polygyny (men having multiple wives) at least up to 393 AD despite multiple efforts of the Romans to ban the practice and it was never addressed by Jesus or the NT writers as a sin.

I share this because we have a problem of more women than men in the church and even fewer good men. I would rather see a sister in Christ married to a proven man with a wife already than remain single or marry outside the faith. I think God has given us more options than we are using because of tradition. Thanks for reading and let me know if you have any questions.
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That's straightforward and challenging but not provocative. Hope you get a good response.
 
FollowingHim said:
You could also ask him practical real-world questions. Like "if a Muslim man with 2 wives comes to Christ, what should he do about his marriages? Should he divorce one, or continue as a polygamist?".
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This is a very practical theology question any missionary, evangelist or theologian should have an answer for. It's a long term problem in foreign missions and will increasingly be so in the USA. The hard monogamy only approach forces the church into a double bind where a new believer can only come to Christ if he very unChristlike destroys his marriage.
 
rockfox said:
This is a very practical theology question any missionary, evangelist or theologian should have an answer for. It's a long term problem in foreign missions and will increasingly be so in the USA. The hard monogamy only approach forces the church into a double bind where a new believer can only come to Christ if he very unChristlike destroys his marriage.
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The terrible failure is when those God has added to His assembly are refused access to an assembly of other saints here on earth because they don't measure up to that assembly's standards. Very few assemblies in the west would open their doors to those listed in Hebrews Chapter 11 and less would likely let John the Baptist preach without putting him in a business suit first (although his diet is very "Greenie" so he'd be ok there)!
 
frederick said:
The terrible failure is when those God has added to His assembly are refused access to an assembly of other saints here on earth because they don't measure up to that assembly's standards. Very few assemblies in the west would open their doors to those listed in Hebrews Chapter 11 and less would likely let John the Baptist preach without putting him in a business suit first (although his diet is very "Greenie" so he'd be ok there)!
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Frankly I think most would be shouting 'Crucify him!'
 
Actually, casual dress in the pulpit has become normal for churches that are attempting to be “relevant” nowadays.
 
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