To Seek Or Not To Seek, That Is The Question...

[JudahYAHites]

After a short discussion with a brother in the fellowship who views the following scripture verse

[Whoso] findeth a wife findeth a good [thing], and obtaineth favour of the LORD. — Proverbs 18:22 KJV

As having to actively look for a wife, wherein I believe YAH gifts women to men as we walk in him.

What is your viewpoint? Should men actively go out looking for a woman/women or should men focus on YAH and allow him to gift women to us, OR, is it situation dependant if a man is single or not?

 

[The Revolting Man]

After a short discussion with a brother in the fellowship who views the following scripture verse

[Whoso] findeth a wife findeth a good [thing], and obtaineth favour of the LORD. — Proverbs 18:22 KJV

As having to actively look for a wife, wherein I believe YAH gifts women to men as we walk in him.

What is your viewpoint? Should men actively go out looking for a woman/women or should men focus on YAH and allow him to gift women to us, OR, is it situation dependant if a man is single or not?

Go find her! She’s probably not coming to find you!

 

[PeteR]

There is balance and I think Yah provides according to a man's need...

I'm not an advocate for dating sites, etc., but I do think a man (and hopefully his wife) should be open and honest while building friendships in daily life... there's an element of searching, but I lean more to being open v posting 'want ads' and memberships on questionable sites w very limited success..

I do think clearly identifying and working toward Yah's vision and mission in your life is of highest importance. He will provide according your needs.

 

[crsivils]

As having to actively look for a wife, wherein I believe YAH gifts women to men as we walk in him.

This is a very interesting topic! I am go back and forth about it, personally, and here's why:

Yes, the women are helpers, gifted by YHWH. There's no need to try and provide them for ourselves, because He is always working with us to accomplish His will. We see this in the Garden of Eden; YHWH saw that the man needed help and provided for him.

So, in theory, we should focus on the mission and "if you build it, they will come..."

But I agree with Pete, there should be an element of readiness and awareness. Not every uncovered woman is going to be exactly what you need; some women will need exactly what you have.

I feel like the correct attitude must be somewhere at a perfect balance between these two:

• I want to marry every uncovered woman who catches my eye
• I don't want to marry any women; they're all distractions

 

[NickF]

Or you’re like me. I’m open to the idea. But I’m going to be picky about who I’m willing to accept. If she’s interested, she better act like it because I’m not wasting my time chasing every skirt that saunters past. I have what I need. More help would be a tremendous blessing but if my protection and providence is not truly valued and appreciated, she’s not going to receive it.

 

[JudahYAHites]

Or you’re like me. I’m open to the idea. But I’m going to be picky about who I’m willing to accept. If she’s interested, she better act like it because I’m not wasting my time chasing every skirt that saunters past. I have what I need. More help would be a tremendous blessing but if my protection and providence is not truly valued and appreciated, she’s not going to receive it.

There is balance and I think Yah provides according to a man's need...

I'm not an advocate for dating sites, etc., but I do think a man (and hopefully his wife) should be open and honest while building friendships in daily life... there's an element of searching, but I lean more to being open v posting 'want ads' and memberships on questionable sites w very limited success..

I do think clearly identifying and working toward Yah's vision and mission in your life is of highest importance. He will provide according your needs.

@NickF and @PeteR you have hit upon the point of a previous post here

Obligatory Polygyny | Biblical Families

If our Abba YAH has brought a woman to me and I reject her not recognizing it was his gift, what have I done!!!????

I am picky too, but, is my personal pickiness working against the will of YAH ?

When should Solomon have said no ?

I haven't studied this out as such but I do see that when men like our forefathers Jacob and David chose the ones they loved Rachel and Michal those women brought unnecessary grief. So, does our personal preference sometimes conflict with Abba YAH's choice?

The balance spoken about above IS absolutely important, along with recognizing the hand of YAH when his gift is not so easily recognizable, discernment is key.

 

[Bartato]

I am picky too, but, is my personal pickiness working against the will of YAH ?

When should Solomon have said no ?

I haven't studied this out as such but I do see that when men like our forefathers Jacob and David chose the ones they loved Rachel and Michal those women brought unnecessary grief. So, does our personal preference sometimes conflict with Abba YAH's choice?

I don't know exactly when, but Solomon should have called it good well before he got to 1000 wives and concubines. He violated Deuteronomy 17 in terms of multiplying wives to himself, multiplying horses, horses from Egypt, and excessive gold and silver. His heart turned away from the Lord, just as Deuteronomy warned would happen.

His father David on the other hand had a lot of gold and silver, a lot of horses, and a lot (probably around 20ish) wives and concubines, yet he did not violate Deuteronomy 17, and his heart did not turn away from the Lord.

The Shulamite might have been woman number 141 for Solomon (sixty queens and eighty concubines are mentioned in Song of Solomon). Maybe that would have been a good place to stop.

Jacob and David did have grief with Rachel and Michal respectively, but in both cases, it seems to have been more a problem with the father in law, Laban and Saul defrauding them.

 

[NickF]

If our Abba YAH has brought a woman to me and I reject her not recognizing it was his gift, what have I done!!!????
I am picky too, but, is my personal pickiness working against the will of YAH ?

I think this is over spiritualizing the issue.

When should Solomon have said no ?

When "should" he? When the women were foreigner pagans as he was forbidden from taking them to wife. When "could" he say no, whenever he wanted to. We're no where explicitly commanded to marry all women who want to be ours.

I haven't studied this out as such but I do see that when men like our forefathers Jacob and David chose the ones they loved Rachel and Michal those women brought unnecessary grief. So, does our personal preference sometimes conflict with Abba YAH's choice?

Seeing as how you've not studied this out. Why not study first?

The balance spoken about above IS absolutely important, along with recognizing the hand of YAH when his gift is not so easily recognizable, discernment is key.

Again, I think this is possibly over spiritualizing the issue. But that's just my initial gut reaction.

 

[JudahYAHites]

I think this is over spiritualizing the issue.

Marriage is spiritual before it is physical so I don't think so

When "should" he? When the women were foreigner pagans as he was forbidden from taking them to wife. When "could" he say no, whenever he wanted to. We're no where explicitly commanded to marry all women who want to be ours.

Seeing as how you've not studied this out. Why not study first?

This is a conversation I asked questions to get answers posing a situation to hear from others who may have a different perspective or more in depth insight. If I had studied it out I would post concrete conclusions. Simple.

Again, I think this is possibly over spiritualizing the issue. But that's just my initial gut reaction.

We all have gut reactions, many times it's just the effects of a bad curry.

@NickF Your walk and my walk are completely different your experiences and my experiences are completely different let's leave it at that and keep it moving.

 

[JudahYAHites]

Jacob and David did have grief with Rachel and Michal respectively, but in both cases, it seems to have been more a problem with the father in law, Laban and Saul defrauding them.

I'm referring to Rachel bringing her father's idols into the camp with Jacob and Michal despising and opposing David when he danced returning the Ark

 

[NickF]

Marriage is spiritual before it is physical so I don't think so

What do you mean about marriage being spiritual?

 

[FollowingHim]

If our Abba YAH has brought a woman to me and I reject her not recognizing it was his gift, what have I done!!!????

I am picky too, but, is my personal pickiness working against the will of YAH ?

Speaking from long observation of many polygamous families, I have seen so many problems from people being too quick to marry when they really shouldn't have, that I think personal pickiness is extremely wise. Seek wisdom - and Yah will reveal His will through the wisdom that He gives you. Honestly, if you move too slowly and marry a woman a year later than you should have, that usually doesn't matter much in the scheme of things. While if you move too quickly and marry a woman that, had you waited a year, you would have realised you should not marry, you may ruin your life and hers.

@NickF is correct that you are over-spiritualising this. And I say that not because marriage isn't spiritual. But because when we spiritualise things we change our decision-making processes around them.

Deciding whether to take a wife is a very practical decision, and the factors involved are easily discussed and rationally analysed. However, when you add the spiritual factor of her being a gift from Yah, this is not something that is able to be rationally analysed, it can rather become an excuse and justification for anything. How are you to determine that she is a gift from Yah, other than through rational analysis - including wise "pickiness"? If this cannot be determined rationally, then you are suggesting accepting her as a gift even when there are red flags saying she is not, but taking her because you think she might be a gift from Him despite logic saying otherwise. The end result of which may mean making an illogical decision - for instance "this doesn't make practical sense for a host of reasons, I can see problems ahead, but I really strongly emotionally want her in my bed, and I interpret this strong emotion as gratitude for a gift from Yah, so I'll accept her as a gift from Him and take the consequences as a burden He is giving me".

I'll say my main point again:

Seek wisdom - and Yah will reveal His will through the wisdom that He gives you.

 

[frederick]

discernment is key.

Yes! Be wise and discerning.

 

[Bartato]

I'm referring to Rachel bringing her father's idols into the camp with Jacob and Michal despising and opposing David when he danced returning the Ark

That's a good point about Rachel. I wonder if she stole the idols because she worshipped idols, or of she stole them to get back at her dad for something.

I wonder if both of these issues you raised (which are indeed serious problems) somehow go back to issues with Saul and Laban.

Maybe they might not have happened had Jacob and David stayed monogamous.

Then again, I don't think we can ever know those types of answers.

 

[JudahYAHites]

What do you mean about marriage being spiritual?

From the beginning YAH gave woman to man, when Abraham looked for a woman for his son it was put before the most high first, in Sirach we read that YAH gives a wicked woman to a wicked man as his reward so whether one is wicked or righteous the woman we get is coming from YAH.

I have met with a brother and sister who were so deceived by satan that they were meant to be together but had fixated on people who had no knowledge or interest in them when YAH had obviously orchestrated their meeting through her father.

Taking the spiritual out of probably the most important decisions of ones life is verging on ignorant, and then stating it's over spiritualising is ignorant.

@NickF is correct that you are over-spiritualising this.

In your eyes maybe.

And I say that not because marriage isn't spiritual. But because when we spiritualise things we change our decision-making processes around them

You state that it changes your decision making process, speak for yourself, that is not my case. Maybe your definition of spiritualize is different than mine.

Deciding whether to take a wife is a very practical decision, and the factors involved are easily discussed and rationally analysed. However, when you add the spiritual factor of her being a gift from Yah, this is not something that is able to be rationally analysed, it can rather become an excuse and justification for anything. How are you to determine that she is a gift from Yah, other than through rational analysis - including wise "pickiness"? If this cannot be determined rationally, then you are suggesting accepting her as a gift even when there are red flags saying she is not, but taking her because you think she might be a gift from Him despite logic saying otherwise. The end result of which may mean making an illogical decision - for instance "this doesn't make practical sense for a host of reasons, I can see problems ahead, but I really strongly emotionally want her in my bed, and I interpret this strong emotion as gratitude for a gift from Yah, so I'll accept her as a gift from Him and take the consequences as a burden He is giving me".

Let me clarify for you. EVERY woman is created and designed to be a gift for a man, to help a man, what type of gift or reward depends on many factors.
Me stating that or acknowledging that, changes nothing about the practicalities I must consider and take into account as a man.
Your hypothesizing or assumptions (you assumed way to much) or rational determination of what will happen etc is personal to you from your viewpoint, limited by your experience and knowledge and the limit of your personal human reasoning. It is not authoritive.

Seeking wisdom is a given in all situations.

 

[Ruth Elizabeth]

If our Abba YAH has brought a woman to me and I reject her not recognizing it was his gift, what have I done!!!????

I think if you follow your natural inclinations, you'll have an easier time telling if he is blessing you with a person or not. God doesn't gift people with things they don't like, so if you relax and look on it from the perspective of whether this would genuinely make you happy or not, it will lead you better.

 

[NVIII]

After a short discussion with a brother in the fellowship who views the following scripture verse

[Whoso] findeth a wife findeth a good [thing], and obtaineth favour of the LORD. — Proverbs 18:22 KJV

As having to actively look for a wife, wherein I believe YAH gifts women to men as we walk in him.

What is your viewpoint? Should men actively go out looking for a woman/women or should men focus on YAH and allow him to gift women to us, OR, is it situation dependant if a man is single or not?

Sometimes you find a thing without looking for it. You stumble upon it, and that's still "finding" (Gen 37:15). Sometimes you look everywhere for a thing and never find it (Gen 2:20), yet God provides. Sometimes there's a gift of celibacy (?). (Sometimes I think Paul uses sarcasm, but maybe I am of little faith.)

Certainly God has gifted wives to men, and sometimes He has commanded a man to take a specific woman. I am not sure it is recorded that He has ever directly commanded men to seek wives in general for themselves, but I do think we can infer such an order from His command to fill the earth and subdue it. I think we see a pattern of the men of old exhibiting an understanding that they have an obligation to take women by any means necessary to fulfill this command. That sense of obligation is further supported when we see the men of old exhibiting an understanding that it was their responsibility (part and participle of God's authority delegated to them) to seek the first wife for their sons before their sons reached the age of accountability. I suppose we are assuming that the Proverbs reference is speaking of a man finding a wife for himself and not for his son. In any case, all throughout the Bible there seems to be the solemn understanding of an urgency for every woman to be wed and to make babies, and that men are the ones responsible for this fulfillment of the purpose of women.

I think we are given two examples for how to secure a bride, and we may follow either one in order to keep our earthly image patterned after the spiritual it is ordained to represent. The first is forced, which is shown us through God's choosing and taking of Israel without her choice. The second is offered, which is shown us through the God's Son standing at the door of each of us and knocking, and He will only enter and sup with those who choose to open to Him. The first pattern seems to be a highly specific bride of His choosing (who turned out to be stubborn and proud), and the second pattern seems to be any bride, but specifically only one who humbles herself and acknowledges her need. Both of these patterns seem to me to involve actively seeking.

I think men raised under the generic circumstances of the Western world are conditioned to be clueless, frightened, and/or ashamed to rise up and grasp this part of our duty (edit: doing it as a duty...many will pursure women, but as a natural instinct and not understanding why, doing it just for fun or because everyone else is). And I include myself in that bunch. But, also I think those are wise who cautioned to be careful about which women you take into your kingdom. These are dangerous times, and we are no good to anybody if we allow a Jezebel to destroy us.

 

[JudahYAHites]

Sometimes you find a thing without looking for it. You stumble upon it, and that's still "finding"

This is exactly what I understand the original "...findeth a wife..." means.

Sometimes you find a thing without looking for it. You stumble upon it, and that's still "finding" (Gen 37:15). Sometimes you look everywhere for a thing and never find it (Gen 2:20), yet God provides. Sometimes there's a gift of celibacy (?). (Sometimes I think Paul uses sarcasm, but maybe I am of little faith.)

Certainly God has gifted wives to men, and sometimes He has commanded a man to take a specific woman. I am not sure it is recorded that He has ever directly commanded men to seek wives in general for themselves, but I do think we can infer such an order from His command to fill the earth and subdue it. I think we see a pattern of the men of old exhibiting an understanding that they have an obligation to take women by any means necessary to fulfill this command. That sense of obligation is further supported when we see the men of old exhibiting an understanding that it was their responsibility (part and participle of God's authority delegated to them) to seek the first wife for their sons before their sons reached the age of accountability. I suppose we are assuming that the Proverbs reference is speaking of a man finding a wife for himself and not for his son. In any case, all throughout the Bible there seems to be the solemn understanding of an urgency for every woman to be wed and to make babies, and that men are the ones responsible for this fulfillment of the purpose of women.

I think we are given two examples for how to secure a bride, and we may follow either one in order to keep our earthly image patterned after the spiritual it is ordained to represent. The first is forced, which is shown us through God's choosing and taking of Israel without her choice. The second is offered, which is shown us through the God's Son standing at the door of each of us and knocking, and He will only enter and sup with those who choose to open to Him. The first pattern seems to be a highly specific bride of His choosing (who turned out to be stubborn and proud), and the second pattern seems to be any bride, but specifically only one who humbles herself and acknowledges her need. Both of these patterns seem to me to involve actively seeking.

I think men raised under the generic circumstances of the Western world are conditioned to be clueless, frightened, and/or ashamed to rise up and grasp this part of our duty (edit: doing it as a duty...many will pursure women, but as a natural instinct and not understanding why, doing it just for fun or because everyone else is). And I include myself in that bunch. But, also I think those are wise who cautioned to be careful about which women you take into your kingdom. These are dangerous times, and we are no good to anybody if we allow a Jezebel to destroy us.

@NVIII that was beautifully written

God doesn't gift people with things they don't like,

100x100 Ameins on that

As I had also written in the original post

is it situation dependant if a man is single or not?

I believe it is, to an extent, it is definitely more precarious nowadays for single men I think, that being said trusting in YAH will make the process easier.

My whole premise on writing these questions was to seek different perspectives, viewpoints, experiences and maybe a depth of knowledge or understanding.

I did not challenge the brother to think the way I do, I found his perspective interesting whilst also recognising that his situation is very different than mine, which is probably fuelling his perspective.

 

[steve]

Seeking wisdom is a given in all situations.

Exactly

I think if you follow your natural inclinations, you'll have an easier time telling if he is blessing you with a person or not. God doesn't gift people with things they don't like, so if you relax and look on it from the perspective of whether this would genuinely make you happy or not, it will lead you better.

I’m not so keen on this, I wouldn’t put it past Yah to gift one with the exact challenge that they need.

When asking the question of whether to pursue or not, consider the example of our savior.
He called out specific ones and invited them to join him. The rest came as they were attracted to what he was teaching or were brought by others.
We don’t see him pursuing anyone, not that I am saying that it is wrong.

Personally, I take the course of maintaining a family that someone would want to be a part of. Some days it looks better than it does on other days.

 

[Ruth Elizabeth]

I’m not so keen on this, I wouldn’t put it past Yah to gift one with the exact challenge that they need.

Sure, but unless your Hosea, I don't think it generally applies.
In regards to marriage I do not recommend marrying a girl you do not love unless you are 100% certain without a shred of doubt that it was from God. If both of you only see each other as a challenge it would be a very uncomfortable marriage.

Personally I don't care about whether they pursue or not. One of my favourite polygamist stories is about a girl who married an older man because she fell in love after listening to him talk at the pulpit. She pursued him and not the other way around.