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Thoughts On Titus?

Cool Wifey Jones

Cool Wifey Jones

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Female
I was reading this morning, and was curious what other's thoughts are on this passage...I'm struggling because there are many things our government has and is instituting that goes against what many of us believe. If it became mandatory to receive the Mark of the Beast (as we know it will be.) I know none of us would submit. Just trying to reason out what Paul is saying here. Sorry for rambling. Lol.

Titus 3:1 (NLT) Remind the believers to submit to the government and its officers. They should be obedient, always ready to do what is good.
 
I’d say that the end of that verse is the parenthesis that the submission is to occur within. Ready (submission) to do what is good.

Irenaeus said it like this 180 AD ish.

Irenaeus book 5 xxiv

2. For since man, by departing from God, reached such a pitch of fury as even to look upon his brother as his enemy, and engaged without fear in every kind of restless conduct, and murder, and avarice; God imposed upon mankind the fear of man, as they did not acknowledge the fear of God, in order that, being subjected to the authority of men, and kept under restraint by their laws, they might attain to some degree of justice, and exercise mutual forbearance through dread of the sword suspended full in their view, as the apostle says: "For he beareth not the sword in vain; for he is the minister of God, the avenger for wrath upon him who does evil." And for this reason too, magistrates themselves, having laws as a clothing of righteousness whenever they act in a just and legitimate manner, shall not be called in question for their conduct, nor be liable to punishment. But whatsoever they do to the subversion of justice, iniquitously, and impiously, and illegally, and tyrannically, in these things shall they also perish; for the just judgment of God comes equally upon all, and in no case is defective. Earthly rule, therefore, has been appointed by God for the benefit of nations, and not by the devil, who is never at rest at all, nay, who does not love to see even nations conducting themselves after a quiet manner, so that under the fear of human rule, men may not eat each other up like fishes; but that, by means of the establishment of laws, they may keep down an excess of wickedness among the nations. And considered from this point of view, those who exact tribute from us are "God's ministers, serving for this very purpose."



Unjust judges and magistrates who are not dealt with bring the wrath of God on the whole nation.
 
Cool Wifey Jones said:
I was reading this morning, and was curious what other's thoughts are on this passage...I'm struggling because there are many things our government has and is instituting that goes against what many of us believe. If it became mandatory to receive the Mark of the Beast (as we know it will be.) I know none of us would submit. Just trying to reason out what Paul is saying here. Sorry for rambling. Lol.

Titus 3:1 (NLT) Remind the believers to submit to the government and its officers. They should be obedient, always ready to do what is good.
Click to expand...

Great thoughts from @Verifyveritas76, @Cool Wifey Jones, and I believe @Aussie is on the mark (no puns intended) with Matthew 22:21.

I want to add, though, that further context is instructive. Reading from my CLNT (Concordant Literal New Testament), "Remind them to be subject to sovereignties, to authorities; to be yielding, and to be ready for every good work, to be calumniating [slandering or swearing false oaths against] no one, to be pacific, lenient, displaying all meekness toward all humanity. For we also were once foolish, sutbborn, deceived, slaves of various desires and gratifications, leading a life in malice and envy, detestable, hating one another." [Titus 3:1-3] It is also important to note that what immediately preceded what has perhaps artificially been separated into another chapter is Titus 2:15: "Speak of these things and entreat and expose with every injunction. Let no one slight you."

I believe it's fairly clear that Paul's focus here is not at all to become entirely submissive to authorities, but instead he's exhorting Titus and whomever Titus shares the letter with to stand up for their faith in Christ, to do so without sugar-coating it, but to do it coming from a place of love for those to whom we're witnessing, having compassion with them in recognition of having once been in their shoes, absent our current awareness and perhaps even full of the hate with which our witnessing may be greeted. Paul is also admonishing us to be gracious about how we witness, avoiding being belligerent, unnecessarily stirring up trouble, etc. But he's not saying to just lie down and submit. The part about not calumniating speaks to your concern about whatever it may end up meaning to take the mark of the beast. Paul is not insisting that we make any kind of false oath. Don't forget that he lost his own life as a result of refusing to diminish his message about Christ's Resurrection and salvation by Grace.
 
My thoughts are that unless obedience to God requires us to disobey our leaders, we should obey the government.

As for where to draw the line, I pretty much draw it about where I draw it for women submitting to their husbands.
and I'm aware that there are many differing opinions to mine but I'll be completely ignoring those in this thread. Entirely.
Which is to say I wouldn't expect my wife to submit to my ordering her into any blatant and obvious sin, so I wouldn't obey the government passing a law requiring me to sin.

Other than that, I'm strictly authoritarian. Leadership usually has ideas that I think are stupid, but an order is an order and a law is a law. I will be a good communist. I will be a good fascist. I will be a good barbarian. I will be a good whatever my country's leadership thinks it is at the moment because I know that God rules in the affairs of men and the heart of the king is in God's hands. So in truth I won't in the end hold much of an opinion about what laws get passed at all.
 
Cool Wifey Jones said:
I appreciate the input everyone! It just came to mind about some stories in the OT where rulers set a decree that would put people in direct opposition to God's word and we see how God delivered them out of those unjust punishments. So...I guess submit unless it violates God's word?
Click to expand...

That's an ok metric, but it's more nuanced than that. God grants different spheres of authority. Just because government tells you to do something that's not prohibited, doesn't mean that was in the governments sphere of authority.

Marriage is a good example of this. This is in scripture and history in the sphere of authority of the father. It was not to government to regulate this nor decide who could marry whom. Yet in our history this authority has been eroded, first by the RCC which began to prohibit marriages scripture did not and to sieze control by requiring you to be married in their church by their priests, and then later by the modern state, which has turned it into a government privilege (which is what a marriage license is, permission to do something which is otherwise prohibited.

You see the fruit of the government encroachment on this sphere of authority all around you today.

In the scriptures the governments authority is roughly in the physical defense of the nation, in the punishment of evil doers (criminal law), and in the arbitration of disputes.
 
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