This has been on my mind

[Phillip]

No church these days I feel supports any widower let alone struggling families.
I guess that's why I have not been to one but yes I know I have to make a effort IV start with biblical studies .

I just resigned from a church as worship pastor. The pastor at that church is fantastic about watching out for the elderly and widows. There are others (pastors) that do the same. My mother is 90 and her pastor walked thru a recent snow storm to make sure she was OK.

We talk about many things here, but even outside of this group, there are still good people doing good things out there.

 

[rockfox]

How many have widow's roles and provide regular monetary and food support?

Let them take Social Security is the usual cry. Budgets are dominated by buildings and salaries.

Criticize them for what you will, least the Catholics take care of their nuns in old age.

 

[Joleneakamama]

I see this chapter as establishing the first nuns.

This order was then messed up by allowing young virgins to become nuns in direct defiance of scripture, and many problems have followed. But I can see great merit in an order of elderly women devoted wholeheartedly to God.

It's not a social welfare scheme.

Interesting concept! I never wondered at the origin of nuns, not being catholic.

After having been married for 15 years, if something happened to my husband and it could considering his career, I don't think I would be inclined to find another husband.

I feel the same. I have children, and the thought of finding someone, and then starting over in a new relationship has zero appeal for me right now. Of course right now I have a husband. I dont know if I would feel different as a widow, and I hope to not find out any time soon!!

One of the reasons I doubt I would remarry is that any responsibility toward a new husband, or family would likely limit my ability to help my children, or be close to my grandchildren. I hope to be the kind of help that would be welcome, and not over stay at any one place.

I could like helping others too in my free time. I wouldn't want to be supported by a church, but helping others is very rewarding.

 

[steve]

It's not a social welfare scheme.

Except that it appears to have been.
1 Timothy 5:16 (KJV) If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed.

 

[FollowingHim]

Ok. It's not just a social welfare scheme. Better?

If it were purely a social welfare scheme, then any widow in the church would be eligible. However, it specifically states that only those widows who have done the greatest works in the past are eligible (v9-10). A woman who had not done such works would not be eligible - but would still have just as much need for food. So it's not a general social welfare scheme. It's targeted very specifically at a narrow group of extremely meritorious women. Though for them it could be considered a social welfare scheme.

It's not about need. Paul doesn't say "only the most hungry women can go on the list". Rather, it's about merit. "Only the most qualified can go on the list". By my reading, it seems to have more in common with a job interview than it does with a social welfare application.

 

[steve]

Better
But it appears to be a refinement of the existing welfare program that was already taking care of all of the widows.
It is interesting that he says to refuse the younger widows and that they should marry and bear children, but for the older ones he simply puts guidelines for which ones are qualified to join the order.
Presumably, the only option for an older widow who was destitute, but didn’t qualify for the nunnery, was that some family accept them and take them in.

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

Do you have an opinion as to why that particular age was chosen then?
It seems to me that women are completely productive at that age, 80 probably being a bit of a hyperbole.

Aren’t you assuming that the woman’s productivity is part of the equation in that passage? I’m not sure that it is.

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

Ok. It's not just a social welfare scheme. Better?

If it were purely a social welfare scheme, then any widow in the church would be eligible. However, it specifically states that only those widows who have done the greatest works in the past are eligible (v9-10). A woman who had not done such works would not be eligible - but would still have just as much need for food. So it's not a general social welfare scheme. It's targeted very specifically at a narrow group of extremely meritorious women. Though for them it could be considered a social welfare scheme.

It's not about need. Paul doesn't say "only the most hungry women can go on the list". Rather, it's about merit. "Only the most qualified can go on the list". By my reading, it seems to have more in common with a job interview than it does with a social welfare application.

It kind if seems like this special class of women were to be pray’ers and they were to be devoted to the Lord and his body, the church. It almost sounds like a nun... and i kind of shutter to use the term, but that’s kind of what it looks like.

 

[steve]

Aren’t you assuming that the woman’s productivity is part of the equation in that passage? I’m not sure that it is.

Yes, I am assuming that productivity would have a bearing on the age restriction.
Do you have another possible reason for setting 60 as a minimum?

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

Yes, I am assuming that productivity would have a bearing on the age restriction.
Do you have another possible reason for setting 60 as a minimum?

Because younger women are not mature enough to have that roll.
1 Timothy 5:11-15 KJV
[11] But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; [12] Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith. [13] And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. [14] I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. [15] For some are already turned aside after Satan.

 

[rockfox]

Ok. It's not just a social welfare scheme. Better?

If it were purely a social welfare scheme, then any widow in the church would be eligible. However, it specifically states that only those widows who have done the greatest works in the past are eligible (v9-10). A woman who had not done such works would not be eligible - but would still have just as much need for food. So it's not a general social welfare scheme. It's targeted very specifically at a narrow group of extremely meritorious women. Though for them it could be considered a social welfare scheme.

It's not about need. Paul doesn't say "only the most hungry women can go on the list". Rather, it's about merit. "Only the most qualified can go on the list". By my reading, it seems to have more in common with a job interview than it does with a social welfare application.

I wouldn't characterize that as 'who have done the greatest works'. Rather I think it was a matter of making sure these were not women who were taking advantage of the church (common problem) but rather were by their works holy individuals. "Widows indeed"

 

[steve]

Because younger women are not mature enough to have that roll.
1 Timothy 5:11-15 KJV
[11] But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; [12] Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith. [13] And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. [14] I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. [15] For some are already turned aside after Satan.

Yes, that was a given.
It’s just that 60 is an interesting place to draw the line, plenty of 50 year olds are very mature.

 

[FollowingHim]

So we could go by our own human logic and change it to 80 or 50 depending on our own opinions of what it's talking about. Or we could just accept that it says 60 so means 60.

 

[steve]

So we could go by our own human logic and change it to 80 or 50 depending on our own opinions of what it's talking about. Or we could just accept that it says 60 so means 60.

Since it isn’t an issue, no churches are supporting them, it really doesn’t matter, does it?
It’s just that so many seem towrite off the women over 60 getting married because of this.

 

[rustywest4]

ok wait a sec homies ...
help me out here ...

Are you saying I can’t marry a widow that is over 60? Or shouldn’t?
(I do not like this rule Sam I Am.)

#lamesauce

 

[steve]

ok wait a sec homies ...
help me out here ...

Are you saying I can’t marry a widow that is over 60? Or shouldn’t?
(I do not like this rule Sam I Am.)

#lamesauce

Since I married a 65yo woman over a year ago, my answer is obviously a resounding no!

You can see why this issue would be of interest to me.

 

[Pacman]

No it doesn't prohibit marriage for them.

 

[rustywest4]

Good... cuz that would’ve messed up my plans on finding my eventual “mature” wife!

#hotgrannywife
#olderisbetter

 

[FollowingHim]

Nowhere in that chapter does it prohibit marriage for every woman over 60. I have never heard anybody argue that.

 

[rejoicinghandmaid]

After having been married for 15 years, if something happened to my husband and it could considering his career, I don't think I would be inclined to find another husband. I have had children and can no longer have anymore because of medical issues. I am also set financially if such an event were to occur. If I remarried it would not be out of necessity and therefore I don't see myself ever desiring another man. He would have to be someone super special and have a need for me to catch my eye and make me want to live with him. I think men are different in this respect. I think they have a much harder time being without a mate. Women do you find this true about yourselves, too? I just think it would be hard to build that bond with someone else after having already shared it with a man you are crazy about for so many years and had babies with. I guess if I were facing financial ruin or hadn't had children, I might be more inclined.

There are so many "If's" in this scenario. I really think when it comes down to it, perspective and thoughts might change once a spouse is a few years out from the grieving process. I don't think there's a right and wrong about it. Be glad you have your own choice to make.