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The politics of abstraction

andrew

andrew

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This came from the Foundation for Economic Education (aka "FEE") and is aimed at the politisphere, but I think it has implications for the body of Christ as well (in addition to being what I think is a spot-on assessment of our failing political system). Submitted for your consideration....

Excerpt: "Spiritualizing political ideologies produces what we might call a “politics of abstraction” in which adherents join an ideological tribe and defend its tenets with an inflexibility that the tribe’s members regard as virtuous. Members of factions experience a good deal of fortification from the “unanimity of sentiment” they experience in their common cause, but they are then disproportionately “shocked and disturbed” when they encounter any opposition to their ideological views."

Article: https://fee.org/art…/national-problems-need-local-solutions/
 
andrew said:
This came from the Foundation for Economic Education (aka "FEE") and is aimed at the politisphere, but I think it has implications for the body of Christ as well (in addition to being what I think is a spot-on assessment of our failing political system). Submitted for your consideration....

Excerpt: "Spiritualizing political ideologies produces what we might call a “politics of abstraction” in which adherents join an ideological tribe and defend its tenets with an inflexibility that the tribe’s members regard as virtuous. Members of factions experience a good deal of fortification from the “unanimity of sentiment” they experience in their common cause, but they are then disproportionately “shocked and disturbed” when they encounter any opposition to their ideological views."

Article: https://fee.org/art…/national-problems-need-local-solutions/
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I don't have to read this to agree with it.
If you've been on this board for a while, you will know that I am not a Trump fan. I'm amazed at how some (not all) Christians will furrow their brows in disbelief when I state such opinions. It's like I've converted to Islam or something.

Reminder: The Almighty is not a Republican, or a Democrat. He's both a liberal and a conservative. Fidelity to the faith is not the same as fidelity to a party, or nation for that matter (that includes the U.S. and modern state of Israel).

Just my opinion :)
 
ZecAustin said:
Yeah but there comes a point when the enemy of my enemy is definitely my friend.
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Yes, but you never turn your back when he's around. He's still an enemy, just a useful one. Utilitarianism?

I must edit the earlier remark. I referred to our President as "Trump". He deserves the respect of his office. I should have referred to him differently.

I wouldn't say our President is my enemy. I don't think he's our friend, either. To me, he's just an entity. I've had to learn over the years that I cannot place too much energy in politicians.

Our President is working some crazy schemes to get people to abandon reason, and just side with him because he is a "victim". The poor soul, who is a product of the media, now feigns indignation at being targeted. He's designing this indignation to get people who are on the fence about him to cross over to his side. Those who are already there, are now even firmer in his camp. Once that happens, it becomes harder for him to be criticized because followers don't want to be a part of "fake news" or "shame stream media". From there, he can tell them that only his policies or ideas are righteous. I hate to say it, but it's almost cultic in my mind. It's an us vs. them mentality instead of us for us and them mentality.

I will actually read the article right now, but the teaser quote seemed so appropriate for what's been brewing in my mind lately about national politics.
 
From the Tea Party election of 2010 to the election of Donald Trump as President in 2016, Republicans have been sending people to Washington with hopes of solving big national problems...

Very little has been said by the right or left in recent years about the virtues of mediating institutions...

Today, listening to the most prominent talking heads and politicians on the left and right, it is as if America is a nation full of unsheltered individuals seeking protection from a federal overseer. The sacred middle layer of protection between the state and the individual has largely disappeared from political rhetoric.
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This has been my gripe with the populist movements. Both sides are hoping to get their guy in to "fix the problems of the nation". It's the epitome of Trumpism: Elect me, and I will make things happen for this country. I will make America great again.

This top down approach has found its way into the evangelical church as well. The megachurch phenomenon has squeezed out the smaller congregations, but created lots of lonely souls in the process. People seek out the endless programs and ministries of these centralized congregations, but their answers can be found in the intimacy of unity, not cookie cutter solutions from the latest megachurch leaders (Warren, or Osteen?).

In my estimation, the most effective congregations are less than 200, united around a common cause, not promoting an endless slate of programs designed to make you a better person.
 
From the linked article....

Today, listening to the most prominent talking heads and politicians on the left and right, it is as if America is a nation full of unsheltered individuals seeking protection from a federal overseer. The sacred middle layer of protection between the state and the individual has largely disappeared from political rhetoric.
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This is tyranny in the original sense and an inevitable consequence of unchecked central government; power always seeks more.

Our institutions are supposed to be vehicles through which publicly minded individuals engage in the give-and-take of solving common problems and pursuing commonly held goals. And yet our fundamental institutions such as Congress, universities, the executive branch, the media, and even the courts have increasingly become platforms for ideological expression in lieu of serving their core public purposes.
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That is a rather naive view of the history and ideal of our government. Nevertheless, it is impossible to govern 333 million people in a truly representative manner. Rise of ideological straight jackets is a method of reducing the natural diversity of opinion in the population. Or at least to control them.

We have eliminated nationality, religion and culture as uniting factors for the population. All we have left is ideology.

Meanwhile, as ideological tribalism and institutional cynicism grow, we find ourselves more alone. Loneliness has skyrocketed since the 1980s.
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This is a predictable consequence of rising population coupled with modern technology that simulates population densities several orders of magnitude more than actual. This results in loneliness and a breakdown of the social fabric as we succumb to the same effects Calhoun's mice experienced. MGTOW, feminism, single motherhood, moral breakdown and various health & beauty fads are likewise all symptoms of the same underlying causes.

The corrective to political abstractions and personal isolation is the localization of national concerns.
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He is right about the cure. In part. However economic & governmental localism is not enough. Nor is a mere tempering of centralization. The organism that is western civilization will inevitably fail. Localism will be the only possible way to survive the damage because it is disengagement from the dying host; the more the better. There must be cultural localism as well. What we are seeing isn't the result of a failure of government or centralization, it is a failure of social order. Our communities must grow smaller, stronger, and more real. Father led families must again hold the prime place in the social fabric. The things we now look to government for must instead come from family and bands of local men.
 
rockfox said:
That is a rather naive view of the history and ideal of our government.
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That's a conclusory statement. Could you unpack that a bit and explain what you mean and why you think that?

rockfox said:
Our communities must grow smaller, stronger, and more real. Father led families must again hold the prime place in the social fabric. The things we now look to government for must instead come from family and bands of local men.
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Amen and amen.
 
ZecAustin said:
And let's face it, he told North Korea his penis was bigger and their dictator was impotent. How can you not love the man?
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Yeah, but you know what they say about the obsession to build skyscrapers.

It's like those who must have the biggest car, the biggest rifle...
 
Our institutions are supposed to be vehicles through which publicly minded individuals engage in the give-and-take of solving common problems and pursuing commonly held goals. And yet our fundamental institutions such as Congress, universities, the executive branch, the media, and even the courts have increasingly become platforms for ideological expression in lieu of serving their core public purposes.
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How is this a naive view of government and its intentions?

Well the biggest thing is that 'Supposed to be' and 'is' are two different things; corruption always seeks power. Rarely is his ideal achievable.

Then specifically about our government, it is actually structured to resist change and give an illusion of democratic control. Money, corporations, the two party system, bureaucracy, various secret organizations (public and private), opaque balloting, etc. all make real control by the people impossible. So does the 1 million to 1 representation that we get in Congress. Representative democracy is a fail. As we see how it has been corrupted and spun apart its become clear to me that the direct democracy and government job by lotto of Athens would have been less corrupt, more efficient, better protective of rights and more representative of truth and the will of the people than what we have now.

Additionally, we have no common goals at all. Since half of the political spectrum is literally seeking our destruction; give and take is impossible. Any give only emboldens them to ask for more; there is no political solution to this. And on top of that, democratic governments only really work for countries with a common nationality. Multicultural empires devolve into nepotism and identity politics before fracturing (often violently).

Then the idea that ideology is ruling things is a classic conservative conceit (ideas have consequences). In truth the whole thing is run for money and power. Have you noticed how today's conservative is yesterdays liberal? The ideologies are constantly changing. There isn't a true ideological debate because conservatives only work to conserve the gains of liberals while the liberals constantly change their ideologies whenever it suits them to more grab power.

I didn't go into all this originally because it's just kind of pilling on. His main issue is the usual conservative/libertarian view that everything can be solved by reducing government. This completely ignores the spiritual, cultural, and racial issues underlying our problems; any one of which will collapse us if not reversed. And thats just our current problems, nevermind the coming robotization of the workforce thats going to hit America like a ton of bricks within 5 years.

Ultimately we are in the decline phase of our civilization; few pull out of this.
 
I agree with some, but not all of your post, so I won't 'like' it.

But

I can't 'like' your last sentence enough!

I only see devolution ahead. Perhaps Mr. President, as much as I don't like him or his approach, is the last gasp gap filler before the final disintegration?
 
andrew said:
This came from the Foundation for Economic Education (aka "FEE") and is aimed at the politisphere, but I think it has implications for the body of Christ as well (in addition to being what I think is a spot-on assessment of our failing political system). Submitted for your consideration....

Excerpt: "Spiritualizing political ideologies produces what we might call a “politics of abstraction” in which adherents join an ideological tribe and defend its tenets with an inflexibility that the tribe’s members regard as virtuous. Members of factions experience a good deal of fortification from the “unanimity of sentiment” they experience in their common cause, but they are then disproportionately “shocked and disturbed” when they encounter any opposition to their ideological views."

Article: https://fee.org/art…/national-problems-need-local-solutions/
Click to expand...

Politics of interest are identity and tribal politics. I'm thinking Mr Streeter wasn't really thinking about the older alternative to politics of ideology...

Anyway localism is in line with Distributivism and Subsidiarity, so I tend to agree with his thesis. But he really hasn't thought out the consequences of abandoning politics of abstraction.

If anything a localist abstraction, like Chesterton and Bellocs distributivism, is better as securing localism than politics of interest are.



rockfox said:
As we see how it has been corrupted and spun apart its become clear to me that the direct democracy and government job by lotto of Athens would have been less corrupt, more efficient, better protective of rights and more representative of truth and the will of the people than what we have now.
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And that's saying something, as the philosophers unilaterally decry how corrupt and inefficient Athenian democracy was.

"The modern desire to look to Athens for lessons or encouragement for modern thought, government, or society must confront this strange paradox: the people that gave rise to and practiced ancient democracy left us almost nothing but criticism of this form of regime (on a philosophical or theoretical level). And what is more, the actual history of Athens in the period of its democratic government is marked by numerous failures, mistakes, and misdeeds—most infamously, the execution of Socrates—that would seem to discredit the ubiquitous modern idea that democracy leads to good government."

rockfox said:
Additionally, we have no common goals at all. Since half of the political spectrum is literally seeking our destruction; give and take is impossible. Any give only emboldens them to ask for more; there is no political solution to this. And on top of that, democratic governments only really work for countries with a common nationality. Multicultural empires devolve into nepotism and identity politics before fracturing (often violently)..
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Well said.

rockfox said:
Then the idea that ideology is ruling things is a classic conservative conceit (ideas have consequences). In truth the whole thing is run for money and power. Have you noticed how today's conservative is yesterdays liberal? The ideologies are constantly changing. There isn't a true ideological debate because conservatives only work to conserve the gains of liberals while the liberals constantly change their ideologies whenever it suits them to more grab power.
Click to expand...

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected. Even when the revolutionist might himself repent of his revolution, the traditionalist is already defending it as part of his tradition. Thus we have two great types -- the advanced person who rushes us into ruin, and the retrospective person who admires the ruins. He admires them especially by moonlight, not to say moonshine. Each new blunder of the progressive or prig becomes instantly a legend of immemorial antiquity for the snob. This is called the balance, or mutual check, in our Constitution" -G.K. Chesterton, almost a century ago.
 
Is that from What I Saw in America?
 
I'd worry if someone agreed with me totally, I don't agree with the me of days past half the time. That is part of always growing and learning and iron sharpens iron. Echo chambers aren't conducive to learning truth.

Trump is no ones ideal President. But he is the man for the hour. Trump has a momentous task ahead. The sense among his supporters is that this is the last chance to save the country. But predicting the future is fraught with peril so who knows.

But if he succeeds to the level of his campaign promises and set up a political regime to continue and expand on that after his passing he'll be reckoned in history as a greater leader than Julius Caesar. For he will have done what Rome could not: turn back the clock on a decaying multiethnic empire.

There is no perfect governmental system among men. They all have strengths and shortcomings. And few of any type can survive in the long term because all organizations and organisms go through a life-cycle.
 
But no President, Prime Minister, Pope, Dictator, or rocket man with a little red button can save a single soul from Hell. With few exceptions, they just lead the masses to that end with ever increasing fervour.
 
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